Etheostoma Caeruleum

Look at the first comment (from the srticle above, pasted below) It is a poster child of how some people have no clue of the need for rail here. I did not know we were allowed to drive 79MPH and that there are no delayes in conventional auto traffic. This public is so mucked up. They are so used to living their entire lives in their car. My concern is how can we have something traveling at 200MPH high speeds in what is a densely populaed state with many towns along the way...dioes this not present some sort of safety issue? Anyway, Here is the comment "The Rail Project “Could” be a good idea. But, “Not” if it’s only going to go 79 MPH or to Dayton. We can do that in our own vehicles and not have to waste time driving to the station and paying to park. Now…“IF” it were a High Speed rail system that would go 150 MPH or better like the ones in JAPAN, and then go thru the 3C’s and onto Indianapolis instead of Dayton, then you might have something worthwhile. Then you would even create extra revenue from people wanting to ride it just to go 150+ MPH for the thrill of it. But, “IF” it’s only going to go 79 MPH….then forget about it. Not even interested.

^ Thanks for posting all that. Very interesting. I wonder if trains had the luxury of the promotional/marketing efforts/monies that is spent on auto, trucking, flight....how popular train travel would become in Ohio even in this day and age of anti-rail attitudes that has been fostered for many years... Hmmm......

"X" Said: "Forbes hates anything north of the Mason Dixon Line and east of the Mississippi." Obviously. The chamber driven interest is to develop every last stretch of dirt possible......exploit the south for all it is. Coming soon, one mega suburb!!!! A lot of people, a lot of Bibles, a lot of Amway, a lot of traffic and cheap buildings, and glitz and ticky tacky........But little heart and soul, or purpose; no ghosts! Hey! They stereo-type the north! I remember being called "Frosted Knees" Scenario down there: We are all "progressives" and we just happened to all show up in the south together. Now what? No sense of community or mission. Just a collection of people who happen to live in the same area. Been there, done it... You can have it. I'll leave places like Savannah GA. and Cha. S.C. out of that mix.

This guy can be entertaining, even if you tend to disagree with him.... Why are you so terribly disappointing? By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist Friday, January 29, 2010 What the hell is wrong with you? Are you really going to wear that? Why aren't you right now cooking me a nice meal and wearing those hot boy shorts you know I love and saying those words you know I want to hear at exactly the moment I like to hear them, to make me feel better about everything, even though I probably won't? Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/01/29/notes012910.DTL#ixzz0evi6eX4y

^ When will they return?

I did some of that.... I think we just need more people here to help. Like I said...too many good ideas to keep on the forum alone. Who is game to write more? Maybe we can all at the same time???

This really is the gazillion dollar question... "Which will it be?" Moving forward with rail one step at a time obviously so badly needed. The "choice" component alone is a compelling argument because I am one of the many who are tired of having cars and highways being our only choice, in the so called 'land of choice.' The attitudes that say nay are really reflective of living the suburban model for the last 50 plus years and it is time to think outside the box. How can we break through the thick headedness about this. While away at the moment.....it is so nice to not have to rely on cars to get places! The world gets it... Will we? Or will we continue to be simple minded mental midgets on the issue, as a state. I cannot bare the shame of it if it the latter. Now you are getting to the heart of the matter. We are really no better than some Stalinist society, where the supreme leader decrees that we are all "free" to travel...as long as we drive. Welcome to Ohio, which stands for: On Highways & Interstates Only Precisely! There is really no difference. And the acronym for Ohio is accurately put. I have had relatives from overseas come to the N.E. Ohio region and could not believe that we did not have rail linking the many areas that collectively are the fabric that make the stitch work of one area. It was embarrassing, really. Being virtually forced to own a car in terms of transport, is a kind of tyranny to me. Call it a "transportation tyranny." Where is my 'freedom' to not have to rely on cars to get places? Oh please...will someone come and 'liberate' us from the transportation dictators and the auto only-lobby!!!

^ The state doesn't need to grow in population, in general...Growth beyond maturity is cancer. It is simply unsustainable and exceeds land's carrying capacity---especially with today's insatiable gluttonous lifestyles. Maybe close to 12 million was more than we ever should have had as a state, anyway. However, it would be nice to get a lot of existing population to move back in to our existing cities. Then I see more demand for better transportation options.

This really is the gazillion dollar question... "Which will it be?" Moving forward with rail one step at a time obviously so badly needed. The "choice" component alone is a compelling argument because I am one of the many who are tired of having cars and highways being our ONLY choice, in the so called 'land of choice.' The attitudes that say nay are really reflective of living the suburban model for the last 50 plus years and it is time to think outside the box. How can we break through the thick headedness about this. While away at the moment.....it is so nice to not have to rely on cars to get places! The world gets it... Will we? Or will we continue to be simple minded mental midgets on the issue, as a state. I cannot bare the shame of it if it the latter.

Very good.. I agree with this. How about it people? Why not take some time to send Cle-plus your thought on this as we have been discussiong here. Too many good thoughts/suggestions...and ideas should not go unheard. UO can be a great source for getting quik letter writing efforts off the ground. This time, send words to the visitors bureau...as I would think this would be more of a concern for them than the individual managers of places---who like Doc says...are sometimes just as lazy. The last thing Cle-plus would like are bad reveiws of anything relating to Cleveland.

Not to turn this into a whole other issue( as someone else actually did above...and not me), but perhaps before dealing a race card on someone on this forum you don't even know (which is just as prejudiced/inappropriate in its own right) it may be important to look deeper and ask why such perceptions, if any have come to manifest, true or not. The original post that attracted those replies said NOTHING to warrant dealing a race card, and before anyone even goes there..neither did mine! Lighten up people...quit with the hyper sensitivity. Anyway, I just wanted to bring up the concern that I am noticing an increased amount of litter in our parks in the last few years. Everytime I walk through them I make a point to bring a small bag to try and pick up as much as I can. I hope others will chose to do the same. Some who disrespect these parks like this don't deserve them until they learn better. Those who do respect them for all they are....big thanks and appreciation goes to you. We cannot afford to lose these invaluable places because of careless fools.

^^ So true...from the air it is so obvious. One big tsunamior rouge-like wave and all that is history.

^ agree....sometimes less is more.

Just a quick thought...would NCTC render all the infrastructure designed for rail under Tower City useless and an eventual masoleum by shifting all such activity to NCTC.....or will one be for light rail, the other for heaveier travels?

^ Does Cincinnati have a subway? I know what you mean...I was at Crane creek once and hear ice rack on lake Erie and it scared the living hell out of me! This was before I know what it was.

Good idea... Let's create some tennis courts, promote physical fitness in our city, and have tournaments there. Tearing down and building new all the time, cannot always be conducive to the sustainablity efforts cities are trying to achieve.

I don't see why the mall has to be picked on so much. The Mall may be a deadzone from a certain point of view, (lacking the intended rail station) but at least it does not look bad..... and is one place that is a public space that does not feel unwelcoming and dirty like Public Scare. I actually think it is really impressive to be facing the city looking south from the end of the mall at the north...many of the buildings that would look insignifigant in larger cities actually look iconic there as they have a chance to stand alone with each boasting its individual architectural character. In fact, I would rather take a visitor who I was trying to give an impression that our city is clean.... to the end of the mall first, before going to Public Square in its current format/condition. I have done this and many people are actually impressed with the mall and its pedestrian potential. There is plenty of other room for needed density downtown..and I would hate to see this space become blind clutter just because we think adding more big buildings looks nice. If anyone could, I suggest looking at St. Martin Square in Sydney. Similar to the design of the mall...just bigger (longer) and with the train stations, it is a place for year 'round activity and festivals that more than brings plenty of activity to the space. It is lively and beautiful. We sort of have a mini one with this mall. Maybe we should reign back a bit from licking our chops for that space and consider that if it isn't broke...don't fix it.. Just enhance it. There are many other areas in the city that can also be construed a dead zone that look crappy and could use some of the activitiy and redevelopment of which is being talked about. Still, we want to continue to add more retail-like space but cannot fill what we already have---much of which can be adequate for adaptive re-use for smaller businesses like functional shops or restaurants serving needs of residents and visitors. So then, maybe it is wiser to focus on steering some redevelopment of obvious empty spaces like the glut of parking lots we have...and any area in need of revitilization. I actually think PA can be used for specific shows...but maybe we are 'over-venued' At least PA has stood the test of time, even if it not in the best of shape. I can bet for certain that a newly constructed venue would look a whole lot worse in that same amount of time than would a PA.

A big reason I suspect NASA will go back to the moon is to accommodate special interests that want to exploit something up there for profit--all under some kind of nobel giuse of exploring new fronteirs, yadda, yadda.

^ Nothing drives customers away quicker than inconsistent hours. How many times have I been downtown on prime times...event times and have witnessed so many places closed. These places OTHER than WD and E.4th...as there IS a rest of downtown outside these districts!

There may be a need for consolidation if one facility is far underutilized. Its like having 3 CVS Pharmacies within 3 miles... which is usually the case....and or two out of the three seem to struggle because the current climate of the customer base they reach within a certain radius.... really only dictates the need for one. Could consolidation be a good thing?

Someone stated: "It's absolutely being done to save energy - read the article; it clearly states that the building was designed in an era when energy conservation never crossed anyones' mind." I hope that notion is regarding the construction industry for the most part of how it was...because It really did cross many people's minds.....but so similar, like today, too many are busy ignoring it and passing the buck to another generation. I just hope it looks good when it is finished. Could be interesting.

I have two sisters and a brother who worked for Disney behind the scenes....and at least when they wetre there, this kind of work ethic we have been criticizing would not have been tolerated... from dress to articulation, to a knowledge of the park, you have to have it going on. There are just too many who would gladly replace these peope and do the job right. How about we write to the Cleveland Plus people and suggest they implement such a way to fine tune new employees who are working in the service sector around here...like at the airport. They can make this course available. Yes, it would be nice to get some Brits here for the summer. Would love to have the new accent.Maybe they will be more enthusiastic. The manners and complacency have become hideous here. I cannot put it any kinder. Its not everyone...But its too many.

^ I agree... No sense in wasting time with the current set-in-stone mindsets. Coming from a family who had many members working with Disney World--as much as I have my personal negative opinions about Disney being a prime example of a wolf in sheeps clothing--- I will say that they have their customer service orientations at levels among the best in the business. Nearly all of the turd-like personality employees we are talking about would never last a day in the Maggot Kingdom. Might be a good model. Advertising for the jobs should reach far and wide and such a requirement would be to learn about Cleveland/N.E. Ohio through what can be a small course designed by maybe the Cleveland Plus people, to get these folks in tune with Cleveland. But yes, I agree, getting 'non-polluted' minds is important. Again, I hope people from CLE read these forums. I tried writing to the top. No reply..and nothing I said was any of my usual rants.

^ So then the whole building will look different?

^I agree with your thoughts...and no, I don't think so. You can only sugarcoat strip clubs so much... If these are the best we can do for economic development in an area that should be prime, I feel sad. Unless it becomes an area like a small King's Cross in Sydney, these joints add little of any dynamics to a city.