Etheostoma Caeruleum

I feel ya... I once said something to a guy who had the gall to throw a handful of used napkins and a brown paper bag full of chicken bones out the door of the bus onto the ground... He told me I needed to get "schooled in the hood." :angel: All the littering around bus stops (especially on Public Square) bothers me, but what gets me worse is all the spitting... :x Not only is it gross, but it's unsanitary, too! I've often thought it would be great to have transit cops or even CPD walking beats to help curb this stuff. Unfortunately, I think it's probably more a matter of prioritizing the distribution of limited resources than anything else, particularly in an area as big as the Euclid Corridor. I read this and had to think.... "Schooled in the hood" Hmmmm... Does this mean we should all strive to emulate dysfunction, I wonder? Obviously if that is what he was getting at, he was making an excuse for himself, and therefore must have had some inkling that what he did was wrong. Seems a better idea that we should be "schooled" by examples that produce successes, not failures. This is part of the problem in the US culture regarding litter...Too many seem to think if you're poor, live in a low-income area...or were raised around such, that you have to be, or it is opk to be a slob, or aspire to be stupid...OR, at least make stupid look cool. Pride is free, doesn't cost a dime...and I have been in some really poor areas around the world in similar cultures and yet they were some of the most humble and clean places! Maybe that guy needs to think outside 'the hood' and look back inside again....to see just how dysfunctional the thinking he has been conditioned to believe, really is. Al the crap Doc was talking about should not even be permitted on a bus, in the first place... full stop! I am sure that if they could not have brought it on the bus, that they would have waited outside, indulged themselves...then pitched it all over the ground, EVEN if there was a trash can 2 feet away. Then, we have our little clean-ups! Maybe we should just let those who find this habitat so appealing, literally drown in their trash. I have no tolerance for this. No time to entertain stupidity... and can no longer accept cop out excuses for people who do this. My quota for that has run dry a long time ago. Only a nice fine (as mandated by existing laws) to enforce existing laws/rules to remind them that they never had a right to do this in the first place, needs to happen. Too bad we now have to start enforcing such rules/laws that we used to rely on common sense to abide by. Now that those who are used to never having any rules enforced in their lives enforced...NOW have them HAVE to be enforced because of their own stupidity...they seem to think it is somehow an encroachment on their rights/freedoms. I swear there must be something in all that crappy food that was mentioned that must compromise an already careless mind, even more so, to critically think. But....You cannot discuss logic with someone who is incapable of reason. Fines...fines...fines...until they get the f-ing picture! We also have to teach all over again, what has failed to be taught in years, and that is...just what the hell a garbage can is for..and that your car window is NOT a receptacle for trash!!! Litter in Ohio cost ODOT some 4 million plus in '07 to clean up along highways alone--And mostly because of idiots like the ones on this bus. How we could use that money for other things! All this money spent on a transit system so it can be treated like that...to haul around the asses of those who do things like this which contribute not one thing to anything socially redeeming. Shameful! A few bad apples really does spoil it for many people who ride the bus and cause no problems. I still question why the buses are even permitting all that crap that will likely result in litter... to come aboard. (open food/drinks, etc, that is) This is one of the reasons I don't ride the bus as much as I used to... I don't have the patience like Doc... and I might pull a Michael Douglass ala "Falling Down" on someone! On a good note... It is a good thing the driver had enough sense to attempt to make this right. :police: Sorry, this story had me fuming!!! :whip: And yes, the spitting is nasty....and very dirty... Are they some sort of reptilian creature with the need to spit venom? What is up with that? Keep the hepatitis to yourself!

^ I'm well aware of the history of the Steelers/NFL before 1970, probably more than so called 'Steeler fans', but the lack of success with our team in this day and age is really wearing thin. How many times do we have to reflect on our past to somehow feel less frustrated with this current situation. So, I am also well aware of the Browns history....but time is passing and its time the losing stops and hopefully it will not take another 40 years. Maybe we should do to the NFL what was suggested in the latest edition of "WIRED" magazine... Go check it out.

^ What are you talking about? In those 40 years they've achieved a lot and remained consistent. I'd trade their record in the last 40 years for ours any day, and this is not to say I think they always have the greatest talent on the field, because they don't. But, they're involved with the team. I'm not even going to entertain a discussion on this with such an inane point, or if you're insinuating that the Browns are under great ownership. I dislike the Steelers as much as any hard core Browns fan, but don't alter the facts to fit the opinions. But go ahead... you can have the last word. I'll just keep telling myself what a great expansion organization we have that has managed 2 winning seasons, and a couple sub-par 7-9's in 10 years...and what something like 5 coaching changes. Its going to be a long time before things get better.

That's one of the ugliest structures downtown, IMO, old or not. It was renovated many years ago and hasn't been touched since and it looks like it. I know nothing of what is going on there, though, or of anything about to happen.

Its not all about spending a lot of money.. Its HOW you spend it... and sure, Lerner has lots of money, but has no interest in this team or how to spend it on getting people in here who know what they're doing. Why should he? He can still get all the suckers to go to the games and still make out with a far less than average product. That horrible performance, no matter what team you inherit has no business being in such a league. Look how long Romero and company had and the results were always the same lackluster performances. No excuses whatsoever for this, and that makes perfect sense. Money won't always fix it alone.. you have to be involved with your team at some point and not simply say "Hey..here's a blank check...now go fix this for me!" That is how he operates and it does not exude leadership from the top. Learn from the Rooney family. As much as I am no Steelers fan, their ownership is involved with the team..and they have managed to win with good talent and a couple standouts...not great talent. We have had enough tools to be at least a 9-7 caliber team the last few years, but bad coaching, bad ownership that is not involved showing no leadership/motivation has not helped the cause.

What a fantastic effort out there today! Funny how other teams change coaches, plans, players in a year and have respectable performances, seem to move forward except this one. This will never change unless fans stop rewarding failure and bad management from the top to the bottom. Oh MY!.... how this team since '99 has destroyed the Browns legacy of a proud/respectable overall history. And we used to think the mediocre 8-8, 6-8, and 5-11 teams were bad! It would not surprise me if this team went 0-16 and did not score an offensive touchdown all year. This is so unfair to the original Browns records and traditions. Who the hell...or better yet.. WHAT the hell is this? I don't think I could make a team play this poorly if I stayed up all night studying for it!

Hi, maybe some people get this email already, but thought I would post it here for anyone who might have the selfish interest of desiring clean water resources. Below Message From-Amy Gomberg, Environment Ohio We've dug up some disturbing news: In a single year, polluters dumped 31 million pounds of toxic chemicals into the Ohio River. I want to organize a high-profile media effort to put this story where it belongs: splashed across front pages throughout the state -- especially in the home districts of John Boccieri, Robert Latta and Jean Schmidt, key members of the committee that will vote soon on the Clean Water Restoration Act. Can you help make it happen today? Last week, a front-page New York Times article reported that nationwide, polluters committed at least half a million violations of the Clean Water Act and contaminated the drinking water of 23 million Americans.[1] That's incredibly alarming and completely unacceptable. After the Times story broke, we reached our clean water petition goal, gathering 15,000 signatures to send to Congress, a big milestone that all of us can share in celebrating. But first we need to turn up the heat -- especially since a few ideological zealots in Congress are threatening to filibuster the Clean Water Restoration Act that we're supporting.[2] With your support, our media team will organize the events, produce the materials, and conduct the outreach it takes to earn news coverage -- so we can make sure Boccieri, Latta and Schmidt, and their constituents, hear all about it. Can you chip in to help spread the word? https://www.environmentohio.org/action/oh-clean-water-fundraiser?id4=ES I want to confront our congressional delegation with the truth about our state's water polluters. To do it, we need to put the story where our representatives are sure to see it. You can help. Together, we'll keep building more momentum to restore the Ohio River and all of our state's lakes, rivers and streams to health. Thanks for making it possible. Sincerely, Amy Gomberg Environment Ohio Program Director [email protected] http://www.environmentohio.org 1. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/us/13water.html 2. http://www.healthylakes.org/great-lakes-congressional-watch/congressional-winners-and-losers/2009/06/19/good-and-evil-in-the-great-lakes-clean-water-debate

I really and truly hope you're joking!!! And I really hope others here will exercise enough critical thinking skills to see what is wrong with that logic. There is nothing romantic about a river being so polluted that it ignites from the chemicals. Please... don't go there... Let's not make it look 'cool' because it isn't. We glamorize ignorance, stupidity, and anti-social behavior enough... Let's not make raping the environment seem cool. No, nothing 'bad ass' about defying nature. No, uh uh, nothing cool about a river burning from being contaminated, nor paying homage to it. I doubt people will get the message that it was a travesty if it is made into a festival.... by seeing a river on fire. Instead it will be like "Yeah dude...ain't that cool...the river burns here... huh, huh" Sure, let's just add more 'fuel to the fire' so to speak....let's have the rest of the nation see how retarded we are when they say... "Look at Cleveland...they actually think that because their river caught fire...it's cool...MAN..how dumb are they!" Are you asking for more jokes and smearing and twisting it into something we would regret? Especially from the west.... Its simple.. "pollution-Not good...not cool!"

I will vote against this again. I heard the arguments pro and con over and over and I don't buy the hype behind the pros. This is not economic development and if this is the best we can do, that's pitiful and really average. I just cannot bring myself to believe the gaming industry is all about altruism. Build the economy around socially redeeming things, not things that contribute to social dysfunction, is my motto. Can't we be different than being a copy cat and pawn for the gaming industry? Let's think...do something really different. With all these everywhere (surrounding states) like ABC stores are in Hawaii, do people really think we're going to attract high end gamers with cash to burn? Can't wait to see the Mall-Wart crowd spending their last pennies on penny slot machines.... Gee..some groceries might help at home! I would actually like to be different from all these other places who have jumped on the bandwagon, some acting like this is some sort of cure all, or at least it is often marketed this way. Why do you think this industry target markets places they think are hard up for jobs...think! And Mr. Gilbert.. Please stick to basketball... With your vision we'd have more parking lots downtown. Sorry....not sold on this... Never was and never will be. Its just not fooling me. Let's raise our aspirations and find other things that will 'save' us, like tapping into the independent entrepreneurial spirit which seeded the economy in the first place. Time to get back to those roots and grow again. There is no Lone Ranger that will ride in and save the day for us. Its up to us.

Not sold on this idea. The new zoo message these days is conservation. I am not so sure adding the hotel/resort theme into the zoo is not going to promote waste at the same time. Welcome thousands of new plastic water bottles and more waste. Can't we just leave one thing not overdone? Sometimes less is more. Yes, I know, my comments are dumb and stupid...afterall, this 'growth' will 'save us!'

Howland is not a city. It is a township as indicated above. There is no such address as "Howland" Ohio as many in Howland would like to think. ;-) It is technically actually a Warren address.

^ I feel for you. Yes, you are right, for some reason, although this has happened numerous times and in many other places as well...and even, if I am not mistaken, in our beloved perfect Chicago! Me, being someone with somewhat of a well rounded stronger eco-background, I can say something about the Chicago River that few would understand unless they were familiar a bit about riparian zones. I have a webpage dedicated to explaining their functions. When I look at the Cuyahoga, as raped as it was in every imaginable way....I still see a river following a natural meandering path....as opposed to (for a great example) the straightened Chicago River which in reality, was made into a channelized ditch. (the fate of many rivers/streams) Sooooo much a wrong thing to do to a river by progressive standards of development these days. It is as murderous an act as any. So, even such a great place like Chicago is not without total fault for killing their streams..and in fact, Illinois in general has been notorious, even more so than Ohio, for killing their rivers and streams. Check with Dr. Larry Page, Ichthyologist on that one. Don't know if he is in Indiana these days or Illinois. He is premier. You can add San Antonio to the mix, Texas in general as damaging rivers there.... Pittsburgh. The San Joaquin River (California-which has not one native species left last I checked) and many numerous places out west that have levied their own fashion of river abuse on their rivers. New Orleans/Mississippi delta is virtually a dead zone. A delta is a habitat in a river system that should be teeming with life...but thanks to the water being so rich in nitrogenous waste from farm runoff, even lawn chemicals, etc, algae blooms have choked the delta. (Hope your satisfied America with your perfectly green lawns!) For more on that, see www.nanfa.org None of which makes it right for our river to join those ranks... But the point here is to prove that not everyone has a gold plated A-hol* when it comes to the treatment of their rivers. Each form had its bad impact on the ecology of the river. Why this has stuck on Cleveland on the list to appear that it is the only place where such damage to a river has occurred is probably because a river catching fire is a pretty dramatic headline... and the last time it happened was at a pivotal time for the environment in the USA...a time when the dawning of the cleaning the environment movement started and so on, and this....a bad time for the river to catch fire maybe! Like getting caught cheating on your wedding night! (I wouldn't do that, by the way!) To look at Cleveland as the only place with serious river problems then or even now, is to ignore the bigger issues facing this entire nation. Yes, what appears to be nice and clean even in your most favorite and progressive cities...sorry Charlie, but they have their issues too. They just may come in different forms. Those in-the-know on these issues understand that, now the rest of should better understand and stop singling out Cleveland as the only place which ever had a problem. Our newest threat to our river really isn't solely so much industry alone..It is non-point source pollution. (every river faces this issue) And that can be something as commonly accepted (although banned in many places for cosmetic uses) commercial lawn chemical services and a host of other constituents. Oh...By the way....need I mention the real truth in the much touted Yangtze river Dam in China. That is just as abusive to a river than anything that has ever happened in Cleveland, no matter what the projected economical benefits for a few. Many have called this a long tern ecological disaster that will only benefit a few. That is another story though. (search on www.nanfa.org about why dams are a river's execution and have cost us more problems than they were intended to solve. Yes, you are right. We should not be seen this way. As for quick comebacks...let;s think of some. But I hope this helps in beginning to understand that even in those most beautiful places where they think they can do no wrong... Even they poop..and even their rivers face challenges and have had occurrences that can be equally devastating all in their own way. For what it is worth, I think the Mahoning River in Youngstown suffered a greater struggle. How conveniently forgotten is it by the nation, though, that so many of these rivers virtually DIED, so they could have played a major role in shaping the nation. 1/3rd of the steel produced to fight WW2 was from the Mahoning Valley. That's just one point...so it is kind of everyone's moral obligation to better respect these rivers, even if you don't live here. They died, so we can build a nation, so to speak. I don't mean that in a flag waving military touting way only..... It's just that They were a major role in the manufacturing of so many things that helped shape a nation. Hope this helps! I'm totally with you, though.... It gets stale..old, and just demonstrates one's oblivious stupidity. But this should be a lesson on why a place cannot afford to abuse its environment. As Sen. Gaylord Nelson said.. "The economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment..when the environment files chapter 11, so will the economy" and this label has not helped us at all. We are still living it 40 years later and we are sometimes afraid to say we are from Cleveland. Now you might no why I am called "EC" I have a passion for rivers. I also have a great video posted on the thread about Ohio's beaches being littered and so on. Watch that one about what plastics are doing to the oceans. That should make it illuminating that even in the least expected places...there are problems. Although I will start here...its just not Cleveland that has its work cut out for them in cleaning up all the worlds waters..all eventually connected.

^ Really?? Wow! Office space? That's the best that can become of this place? Tisk tisk.. People harp on not having 'enough' on the waterfront... Well, Hornblowers was a great place. It was not ticky-tacky shmuck bar food... It had class, but was affordable, great atmosphere....within easy walking distance and now its gone and it becomes office space? IMO, that's pretty pathetic. Mayor White was a regular there. There was also easy access free parking, coupled with the walkability appeal. I did hear that when the original chef left to open another place..the food went down. Maybe that had something to do with it coupled with the rumor about the partnership taking a turn. I was thinking something in there more inline with better food...coupled with a visitors center/nature center with educational exhibits on Great Lakes Wildlife..Nice combo with the submarine... Office space in what is clearly cut out for anything but that. That's my opinion... I just had higher expectations for it.

Does anyone know what is, or IF anything is becoming of the former Hornblowers location (The Barge) That placed used to be a well run, clean, classy place...great views and atmosphere. The part owner, Tom Rayle, I think... owned the Pufferbelly in Kent, or was partnered with another while running the place. I used to do their aquarium maintenance throughout the 1990's. It seems such a shame nothing is becoming of such a great place. The parking was free..the views were fantastic. The food used to be good... But.. ???.. I was near there tonight....and there is still a For Sale sign on the place...and a banner was hung from the entrance with the name "The Lean Dog" but the place was dead. Was that an attempt at another bar? Any comments with what is going on there, IF anything will be going on?

I am going to be sending a press release out about this very soon. Also, any volunteer cleaners are needed immediately to get some work done during regular hours. Please message me.

I hope the quality is not compromised by getting this done so quickly. Any thoughts on that?

They aren't thinking. I don't like to make assumptions, but I would assume the parents of these children are obese and have poor eating habits as well. This is all the same kid in the video. Just throwing out some "food" for thought, though....How does anyone know the intent is to make fun of the kid? If it were someone really thin in the video, would the video be insulting to someone thin? We probably wouldn't be thinking the video is making fun... BUT, add the fat kid and it is a whole new game. The parents of this child are at a lot of fault here. If we look up the story about Jessica, you will see what her parents were letting her eat. I just think it is something that looks funny in fast motion whether it was a fat kid or thin kid in the video. Growing up in school...In school, I never made fun of 'the fat kid' while so many others did. I was made fun of for having pointy ears like Spock, which I still do have them somewhat, but hey... sticks and stones break my bones, etc. By the way, when I was in High School, we were hard pressed to find more than 3 overweight kids..Now the whole damn class is either overweight or borderline morbid obese. Its not a good thing at all...But it doesn't help when we also have the romanticize thing going on of the "Big Beautiful" thing...which in my opinion downplays the fact that obesity is not a healthy thing. I look at many of the students coming out of my old high school when I am near there.... and it is simply shocking. I am 41 and can probably out run 95% of them. That's really disturbing. I was not making fun of anyone by posting this, on the contrary, I think this is a very concerning health issue--and I must admit, I did laugh when this kid was moving across the floor in fast motion! But the video was made to look that way. I would not be laughing at this kid in real life. I would be pitying her. On the other end of the scope...we cannot look like this either....

I have flown Quantas...

Just add on to the place... I wouldn't get hopes up for a new place anytime soon, and if one is planned, then use the existing lands already on site.

Can someone get a picture so we can post? Got a call today from the Prospect Bottoms-Up property. They are interested in this too.

I don't think a totally new facility needs to be built. That would be wasteful. In the 50's, Cleveland was a larger city by population, so with some additions and upgrades, I think it will be a decent place.

These are the properties we are trying to get some window displays in the front. Cleaning the area inside and out... then at least it wouldn't look like that dead zone it is now.

^ Yes, I sense Mangini will not put up with slackers and pathetic performances.. I can see it in his expressions when he is fuming inside. I think there as a time yesterday where they converted 3 3rd and longs in a row... I just shake my head and wonder.. How can that be. Sir2..you are right... Other teams have made it to the Superbowl with less than perfect teams, etc.. There were teams like the '85 patriots, for example, who were not as good as some of the Browns teams in the 80's, yet they still snuck into the SP, and we didn't? In other words, we have actually has some better teams than some who have wound up in the SB, while we didn't! I still think Pittsburgh is not a great team..they're good, but not great. I don't say that because I am a Browns fan either. They don't have tremendous talent, but they execute and establish consistency. I really don't think there are any more "great" teams...as you say, all have a pretty good chance.

I have made it a point to exclude this circus of teams that have had to go through rebuilding processes some 4 times since they have been back---from the original Browns teams/records---Because this stuff is so rotten that it has totally smeared the image of the history of the team in general. With a new name and colors, at least it would not have undermined past Browns teams that were competitive and respectful. Maybe something like "The Cleveland Grays" after the history of that army thing on Huron. Our worst teams of the past were more competitive than this and showed more will. What is amazing to me, the reason for losing has been the same formulas for years...Little to no pass rush, ineffective running the ball...Inability to convert on third down on offense, while rarely stopping other teams on third and long on defense...receivers dropping passes--easy catches for a so called 'pro' no doubt....often poor pass protection. Quarterbacks making bad throws.... It is the same thing all the time. Even dating back to 1986...Lose to Denver because you could not put pressure on Elway for 98 yards....go into some "prevent "D" not stopping the third and longs...etc.. and hand the game to them on a silver platter. It was even the basic formula of problems then..and we see it now. You would think that even the most inexperienced coach would understand these basic necessary fundamentals of execution and work on fixing these areas...Yet it always appears to be the same exact problems again and again and again. WHY? I am not always so sure its about talent either...rather than simple fundamental execution. It is all just inexcusable to me. Maybe somehow, this will be the scenario until Cleveland in general, adopts a new identity other than building it around the success of its sports teams...Maybe it is a lesson from the sports gods to tell us that we need to find many other things to get excited about in our city/region than just relying on sports to make us happy....and UNTIL we do we will lose. Now is the time to discover other interests and break the addiction. Honestly, that is how I have dealt with the lack luster performances and it has worked quite well. I don't even think about it, expect much, and so on...It will be when we least expect it, that things will turn around, maybe. Oh well..drawing straws, I guess.

It appears that the Asian guy is standing behind the two guys in the front... Maybe he was going to approach them with some ancient wisdom to help settle their differences at the Alamo. :lol: