Etheostoma Caeruleum

No offense eventually means the defense gets tired and finally caves in for the final third of the game. Same thing over and over unless there is some offensive activity. It really is that simple. Back to the 60's highlights.

^ That's interesting. Where is the data that supports that? I will comment on the area in general. I have lived in that area for years, am slightly over 40 and have done pleeeeenty to advocate for better quality of life in a progressive way, starting with cleaning up the river--and managed to get a few things done, as well as many others I know over 40. People still need a serious education on their river and what a bio-healthy river means to its revitalization. Thank goodness for Holly and The Mahoning River Educational Project. There are the positives, but overall I find it to be a rude, short sighted, area, that if weren't for Mill Creek Park, Stambaugh, Butler, and YSU...well, I hate to think of it. People don't know what they have of worth there and how to foster the good. The problems are disproportionate to its size. I hope something comes back, but I'm through with that area and have long since passed the torch. I never felt a connection with it. It needs to be re-populated with mindsets that do not continue to economically type-cast the place as a labor/manufacturing, blue-collar place only....and can see themselves as more than athletes, Mall-Wart, and fast food. I am sure everyone else can say much nicer things. The regional chamber of commerce promotes sprawl, while largely ignoring the core. Sorry, don't want to rain on this parade. Just don't like the place. It is my least favorite of Ohio Cities...still far too auto oriented. Still, I hope it gets better, really. It does have an interesting topography and some great old housing stock in YO. proper, but they really need to get a better hold of the quality of life issues that contribute to making people leave.

No comment. I could comment a lot but what I could say would not be too kind.

Nice article. Why, though does every article I read about Cleveland start off with making a note in the river fire?

^ ALL RIGHT!!!! :clap:

I like the spaces filled too... But how many times will something be a tweaked version of something else we already have so much of.... If these are supposed to be 'upscale' places, it would be nice if people dressed more appropriately when going out to dine... Enough of the sneakers, flip flops, inappropriate shirts on guys with extra large guts, 80's pleated dockers that taper at the ankles...and knee length shorts already. Maybe a good place would be a place to give people some subtle dress tips. My point is...will this be another evolution into just another bar disguised as fine dining?

Hi everyone... Here is an update on these issues... Yes, this was a last moment tweak, but our regularly scheduled programming will resume! Just an update as promised... I spoke with a higher ranking person at ODNR HQ the other day for over an hour. I have been continuously following up with him about improving litter conditions at Edgewater State Park. It would help if others contacted Glenn Cobb at ODNR-Division of Parks/Recreation to express concern too. It was suggested rangers do what they used to do, and should be doing...and that is....to get out of their cars, walk the park, the trails.....get connected from it and out of their auto cocoon to see what needs to be done. We discussed making a complete park walk through to get litter a routine part of maintenance. When they mow the grass, they should not mow over litter. Glenn Hobbs at ODNR suggested all the above and I agreed. These are not sweeping changes...they are merely things that should have been done all along, that somewhere along the way, complacency has set in. Glenn agreed that they do not need a huge staff to be able to achieve this. Additionally, we talked about park rules and regulation enforcement on quality of life issues. I suggested that law enforcement be more aware of inappropriate behavior in the park from the transient crowd, for lack of a better way to describe it........those bringing in fast food and dumping it all over the park, or those who rudely turn up their audio systems so loudly that the entire park and beyond can hear it, motorcycles gunning engines with ear splitting noise. Those who live in the neighborhood and share this park, respect the tranquil oasis within the city they are... do not do not act like this. Those who respect these natural resources do not behave like that either. Much of the litter comes from such a small herd of visitors, and Glenn agreed that they need to be cited according to park rules/state laws on public lands. All... again, illegal activity in violation of park rules and regulations. Glenn would like to see these issues better dealt with. He spoke extensively on a concern for this...and cleanliness as a priority. Lastly, they hired a new park manager there, and Glenn said that he will put him in touch with this group who wants to help with the park clean-ups. Now is a good time to get involved with this because we have some fresh blood managing the park, and out with the existing management. That's all for now... Let's keep the momentum going so we can all be proud of this place just as much in person as in pictures. October 3rd 11: 00 AM to 1:00 PM Please bring friends! May Day, Did Gypsy call back about refreshments? Thank You!

^ Even more of a reason to welcome more implementation of natural/indigenous restoration of some green-space along a river which was raped to the extreme for 200 years... Well, Maybe only The Mahoning River was raped worse. Time to give a bit back to a river that made it possible for Cleveland to exist today. Then, years later..and eventhough I did my share of partying... in my opinion The Flats became an overrated toilet of party pals only.... who would come to the city...poop on it, and leave a mess. I knew it would be destined grow thin when I came of age there back in '88. We can only make it better than ever...a place where stakeholders have an interest in a functioning neighborhood/business area with some sorely needed park space downtown. Sometimes less is more. I like the down scaled version. Let's see the cottonwoods, the sedges, the Sycamores...all signature icons of our natural heritage. All can be implemented into the development. The Flats will have grown up and come of age....more appealing to a much broader demographic, and thus...making the city a more desirable place to live.

Well, we have plenty of opportunity for this downtown on those oceans of pavement.

I read this.. Cannot understand why that slipped me! Sorry... But its good to know. Must be my eyes killing me!

All sounds good, very resourceful.... but I hope that the follow up in all this will be of quality. Sorry, but that is where I have to offer our city some constructive critique because the simple but noticeable basics often lack. This means simple cleaning, knowledge of their city... and a friendlier attitude amongst airport employees.... (can the puss attitude) better cleaning of such things like...windows, floors, restrooms, etc... Not so sure I like lacing the place with more chains though. Dunkin' Donuts? Please! Reminds me of 'indoor sprawl' Those kinds of places are sure hard to find these days! Not to crack on their items, but I think we can do better...it would be nice to get some local Cleveland exclusives in there like Great Lakes...unique things so that visitors are greeted with what defines Cleveland, makes us unique... and not so much the clone zone. Rock and Roll Store.. That's the idea I am talking about. Start recycling too, already....like so many other airports.

^ Yes, I have thought the same thing.... very good observation...need more to dilute the situation that detracts to the few who are coming to that particular spot. In the long term the offset factor will help, but in the shorter term, the situation can be detracting to get it to the point that we can offset the situation. I live not far from there and it is a great little space for a coffee shop, small boutique of some sort... etc kind of thing. Word is, at least at my block group...Most who live in the neighborhood, stakeholders, would like to keep it respectable...no all night clubs that can get rowdy with unnecessary, excessive loud noise/litter, loitering, or worse, as was the Moda thing years back.... I hope this places does well...Like I said, the space is great. I just wish the stop wasn't practically in the doorway.

Places locating here have had problems with loitering/panhandling at bus stops..by people who are not getting on the bus. I hope this will not be a problem. It seems to deter customers away. Any thoughts on that issue? It has been a problem in the past.

^ I'll look into that. Thanks!

While this team is developing, I would not expect too much... In the meanwhile, watch You Tube videos of the 60's Browns. Its much less painful.

Just wanted to throw out a quick update with this project... We're working on three more spaces. One, behind the Hallee Building (in it, actually) will be the next one going. There has been some painting going on for preparation. It would be good to get something going near the dead zone in the middle of Euclid. That area is a focus, as well as some random areas of which we are making contact. Statler has said they want to participate as well. And, there is interest near Star Plaza. Thanks for all who have been participating in any way, or offering the art for use. There will be use for it, just sit tight.. It is a matter of getting the places to agree..then get them cleaned, then ready to be placed wit the work. Everyone can even help with this by simple word of mouth and expressing support for the project. Word gets around. Imagine being able to walk down Euclid in the meanwhile near dead zones and instead of seeing emptiness and filthy windows, you see some color...something interesting to look at...and perhaps even some light at night if possible. Thanks! EC

See? If other people can say some nice things about us, why can't we? Psssst... Hear that PD?

Ah, sprawl has nothing to do with this one as the suburban offices are vacating too. I'd blame it more on Toledo's ungodly economy. That means whole metro, not just Downtown. Plenty of suburban offices have been abandoned too. Toledo has the least sprawl of any city in Ohio. Flatness has nothing to do with it. Sorry, sprawl has a lot to do with it at the root of it all.. This sort of thing was happening in Toledo's CBD before we can blame the economy. As for the suburban areas getting hit.. Maybe this has something to do with the 3rd/4th ring sprawl that is pulling away from that too....to the point it is bumping into another community that is also being hit. I travel every last speck and inch of this state with my work.....Look around, it is quite clear...so very obvious. We need to get out of denial. There is only one way to help fix this but it will never happen in a 'home-rule' state... It was tried in the 70's.

So many people who will go to these casinos here will be obese and cannot walk 10 feet, so it better be easy for them. Watch as they spend their last rolls of pennies on the penny slot machines... Pathetic. I wish Dan would stick to basketball--and wish Cleveland would set its visions higher than this mediocre copy cat approach at economic development--only the gaming industry wins in the end. Many will disagree, but maybe they need to visit more progressive cities which have not bought onto this bandwagon and have chosen many other non-desperate creative ways to stimulate their economies. Sorry, I just think we can do better than copy other people. Let's aspire to be more than type-casting our economy as 'sports', 'bars', 'old industry', and 'eat..eat..EAT!!!' Reminds me of Mr. Creosote on Monty Python...all very average.

Shame...and some people actually believe sprawl/push&pull factors has nothing whatsoever to do with this phenomenon that outpaces any gains we make in CBD's, here... Pitiful... and such a nice building. Toledo is so prone to sprawl even if simply from a geographical standpoint...flat lands/farm lands making it so easy. My sister lives in Toledo.

I agree with a lot of this. I am supportive of this project, but as for the retail component that is supposed to eventually be the full scale project.... I walk downtown, I see sooooooooooo many vacant retail spaces in prime areas of which we are not filling at lighting speed.......yet we will build more? Will it just result in a game of "musical chairs" downtown? That is where I agree with the "wacky planning" sentiment of the above post. I also like the public park and green-space aspect rather than seeing all concrete. Natural never goes out of style...ask Portland....or the dozens of dogs living downtown! I also have a hunch that once existing downtown residents have this newly created green-space on the river...they will not want to surrender it to condos, for they will have discovered just what an asset it is to a city. I hope it all works out in the end.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

If these are the best a given place can do for economic development ...that's pretty darn sad, utterly pathetic, and demonstrates an extreme lack of creativity. Develop an economy around entities that can help produce an intelligent, articulate, healthy populace..Not those that foster dysfunction so only a few gain. Aspire to be more...not mediocre and do the copy cat thing.

Here is a classic that should remind people what real downtowns were like! YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

^ Like I said.... Its about satisfying stockholders not stakeholders. As a company, as long as they profit....they could care less about trash and vile filth flying all over the place...and by continuing to support only them....we succeed in driving their profits to the moon... to the point they are more powerful than a community's government, or actually 'become' their government......Then after that....we will continue to breed the lowly suckers who think they're getting a bargain, in those pictures. In other words, the die-hards are hurting themselves and they just cannot see how. A kind of sad 'no-turning 'back' now cycle. It makes me want to vomit. But if I do, it will be on their door where no one will mind as long as they saved 5 cents on their underwear. High cost of low price...and in knowing the price of everything, but the value of nothing. I like the C3PO, btw! :lol: