Etheostoma Caeruleum

^ If you want to see the small community integrity/local character/identity preserved in your city...the local business entities that are still the backbone of the nation...then you should be willing to spend a few more cents for the sake of that alone. Their is a "high cost of low price" factor here and the high cost is seeing empty buildings all over the place and all that is connected with that..in it costing a community. Wal-Mart is the most 'hauled into court' entity of its kind to date...and there are many good reasons for it. I suggest you visit sprawl busters and learn more about that. This company is so huge and powerful that they can go into small communities and dictate the planning...even if the community does not want them. The local retail economy basically becomes homogenized to the point you have no choice but to go there...and in many cases WORK there too. It is time we learn the advantages of diversity breeding stability in the economy---and how sprawl-mart undermines that diversity all over the place when you see a myriad of empty places everywhere you look. Gone are the taxes and jobs those businesses were providing. As a general rule of thumb, 5 places employing 20 people are better than one entity employing them all, and building our whole economy around that one entity---because if they fall, we all fall. Honestly, I can sit here and write a 10 page essay as to why we hurt ourselves by choosing to support this place so much, but I just do not have the time. It is up to those who are not informed about this issue to do the looking up themselves, and there is plenty of information out there which demonstrates the obvious. I am not saying they do not have a place in the economy, but what we do NOT need is saturation to the point nothing else is left and like drones and clones, we all are forced to shop at the same place. Allowing sprawl-mart and their developers to dictate land use and city planning is like letting loggers dictate forest management, or letting placing Dracula in charge of a blood bank. They will do only what serves their shareholders well..and NOT what serves the best interest of the stakeholders in a given community. There is a big difference between the two. So often, after point of sale factors, we often discover that the bargain we get is costly in the long run. In another thread, I posted many of those factors (Ohio leads nation with empty Wal-Marts thread) The quality, service and knowledge is missing from these giants. Also, you are often getting an inferior product posing with a name brand label..or the cheaper version of a particular brand. But, they sell it as though you are getting the same quality for less..and a lot of the time is is pure B.S. I can prove it in the vacuum cleaner industry because I have been involved in it all my life and know the big guys deceptive tricks. More junk winding up in landfills after a short time. The bottom line is so many of us want these unique hip neighborhoods with all the cool little businesses... well good.. But those same businesses are not museums posing to look cute so we can show out of towners the "cute little neighborhood." They are real and need our support. Few people understand just how hard it is to run a small business and the passion, work and effort many of these entrepreneurs put into it.. How they are willing to bend over backward etc... To me, that is worth spending more. To me, that is worth rewarding just to have the real experience of a locally owned and independent operation...where I can get to know the merchant who brings me the products, who The more the giants are supported, the more it takes away in the economy for the individual to to survive who does not want to have to resort to working for someone else like Wally World as a door greeter. We don't need these places on every corner. Ohio is paying dearly for this when you look through all their smoke and mirror propaganda and pr marketing. Woah.. I already wrote way too much, but this place is not the benefactor to the community it is always posing to be. Yes there are some others out there who are similar, but this is about WM, specifically right now. I will never set foot in this place. Since littering is an issue these days... I am appalled to see all the crap that accumulates around their stores, and I thought they were supposed to be the pillars of examples of 'being green'...geez.. it is bad enough they clear 60 acres of air cleaning, water purifying wetlands which did all that free of charge....only to tell us they built a 'green' building. What a joke! Still, there are many who for some reason feel obligated to defend this company to the end... I just don't know why..when it is clear they need to be more accountable.

Those photos are classic. It is no surprise I loathe this place for a million reasons. I always say...everytime I pass one I feel a sudden dip in the IQ, a burgeoning waistline, and a sudden urge to buy a trailer.

Great shots... Funny, I was just reading something about Manahattan... Have a look at this link showing what Manhattan looked like in 1609 on the cover of national Geographic. From an environmental/ecological standpoint, what has become in a mere 400 years is painful. Reminds me of Soylent Green. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/09/manhattan/miller-text Am I allowed to include a link?

Why Thank You, MTS! :-) It makes it easy when we are supported by a cast who cares...

I thought I would make the announcement now about the September 26th Edgewater Park clean-up. 11:30 AM to 1:30 PM, Saturday, September 26th. I will have some bags, but you may want to bring some as well...Those of you who I gave gloves to last time, just bring those again too. Let's see a show of hands...and then we will just meet at the same place. Also, I am following up on correspondence with an ODNR contact at HQ about improving these conditions at the park. Btw...Hubz, could you bring a small rake...flat shovel? Lastly, there is someone with DCA Advocates who is also doing a clean-up at the river in The Flats on Sunday, September 20th, so, this would be great to get both of these going back to back....to establish a presence. (Anyone wanting details on The Flats one, please PM me) Like eating healthy and staying fit is a lifestyle change to adopt and not a 'now and then fad'... So is helping to plant the seeds of a non-littering mentality/lifestyle--it is an ongoing lifestyle and job to keep after it---So, with that, I hope to see you there again..and some new people as well! Afterwards, we can grab some refreshments at a local establishment if anyone's game! Thank You! Mayday, if you are reading this... Did Gypsy ever call you back?

^ I also share the same feelings about the above preferences. When one of the articles mentioned something like "A Christmas Story Street" or something to that effect...In that case...I just thought some of the houses next to the CSH itself on the same side could use some work. If they are owners who are having difficulty keeping them up to basics...it would be nice to see them painted. If it is careless absenteeism on the other hand, it would be good to see the property owners held accountable. I live next to a similar situation and the people are obnoxious behaving, loud, etc. I don't think the owner cares who he rents to.

Not sure I understood the 'Rio-Comment' afterwards...

On Saturday, from 10 AM to 4 PM, at the Colonial Arcade and the Baseball Heritage Museum, there will be events surrounding the opening of two exhibits, on Tom Manning and "The Kind From Cleveland".. The KfC is a film shot entirely in Cleveland in 1949 and features many Cleveland Indians from the '48 Championship team. Here is the IMBD link to the description of the film. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041545/plotsummary Mr. Tommy Cook, who was in the film as 'the kid' will be on hand as the film will be presented as well. On Monday he will star in a live old time radio program..the admission is free for both events... I think I posted this in events too.. But thought maybe people would find it here as well as it is local film related. I had the pleasure of meeting Tommy Cook the other night when he made a cameo guest appearance at the Radio Mystery Theater Night Social at Visible Voice Books in Tremont. One other very important note, aside from working with many other great radio voice actors and some pretty iconic names on the big screen as well... Tommy is best known for his role as the "Little Beaver" character on the The Adventures Of Red Ryder old radio program.

I am working on getting 2 places ready to prep. I am awaiting a go ahead on one...and a call back on another party very interested. So, I would predict that within the next week...we will need to do some impromptu cleaning. I will give the word soon.. Please stay tuned to this thread for the info. Please watch for updates... Thanks!

I agree... basically, I tend to feel such developments can tend to polarize people into districts with the 'micro-sprawl' while all in between is left out. Its time to connect the dots and not play musical chairs with businesses abandoning old places, re-locating in the new ones...and old ones are left vacant for a long time. It is basically like sprawl downtown.

If you want a cleaner/healthier river...then we need to restore some buffer and riparian zones. Learn about their functions in maintaining the bio-integrity of a river on the riparian zone page link at www.nanafa.org

Well, it would be nice to have open/green space than leaving it all exposed dirt... It will look respectable until the housing can be done.

Ha! Typical N.E. Ohio inferiority complex strikes again.. Instead of a local saying.. "Oh welcome... Have you seen this or that yet....How can we help you...bla..bla..bla.." You get the typical reply from the "Shleprocks" "Ohhhh.... wousy wousy woooo wooo!...it'll never work" I'm glad you found this forum. Come here for all you need to know and welcome! Thank goodness we are slowly being infiltrated by new people and forward thinkers!

I knew it wasn't Tenn.. I could tell from the types of trees. ;-)

This is a quiet...but most exciting project! Reminds me of Field Of Dreams! Maybe Kevin Costner would like to take part in this..he is a big fan of the game. It might draw a lot of attention...

I'm surprised this didn't get much interest. Maybe because it was posted on the weekend, it sort of became drowned.

^ Yeah, I agree... Fund the real deal and something Cleveland will truly be proud of... One is burgers and fries..the other is a classic 5 star plan in the works for years, and not a "poof!.... there you have your aquarium", thing. I personally do not like how this is being handled. Let's not be always so desperate for the quick fix just to say 'we have it' There is never enough time/money to do it right the first time...but always enough to do it over. Like Smokey said.. "Don't be sold on the very first one now....My Momma told me...you'd better shop around"

Great points... Yes, the car ticketers are another entity, as someone mentioned...but the point here is deeper... It is about where the priorities/cultural philosophies are in the city.......More so on gathering money from parking tickets, than on the environmental integrity of the town. As petty to some as this may seem to some, to demonstrate why it is linked to other problems....may require some stepping out of the box, and looking back in to see how dysfunctional what seems to be accepted as the norm, really is--And, it really says something about the city regarding civic pride when I have yet to see---no matter how many times I have written to council, papers, called, and know others who have as well--- to not have this city acknowledge the litter problems---and instead take on the complacent and mediocre mentality that "This is just how it is". Or, "we've got bigger fish to fry" That is RUBBISH in itself! Where is the leadership on this issue when it is a clearly known problem. It most definitely is embarrassing and absolutely says something about education/pride. This kind of change needs to be not only promoted at the bottom, but from the top as well. I have yet to see it come from the top---and until we get a hold of the basics, we will not get to the next level. I want to be proud of the square... and the gateways into the city, or anywhere there is a first impression to be made. Sadly to say, many places that should be making the cut, are not, and we need to admit we need to improve and do it. People learned this carelessness and they can un-learn it too, and even the poorest church mouse can acquire some free civic pride. It may be the only thing some of us have in these hard times. At least we can keep the house clean and respectable...or what little we have. That is the philosophy needed. Pick, laugh, or wave away at this sentiment, or say why we 'can't', instead of 'how we can'.. maybe....but I'm just fed up with the carelessness regarding something as simple as placing trash in a trash can, I have seemed to see increase 10-fold in people in only a few short years... I'd actually like many parts of the city to look as good in person as they do in the pictures, and keeping litter at bay around our city, starting with the square, might do wonders to spreading a contagious new socially redeeming mindset that KNOWS what a trash can is for! Then maybe we can join the rest of the world in discovering what a recycling bin is for. Some ideas to help... Everyone who cares, get on board to promote the city to get a hold of, or take notice to the issue...For RTA to help with better bus stop management and a simple anti-litter campaign. Enforce the law. If you don't have cash to lose..then you better not pitch your crap on the ground, right? Those who live directly downtown may have to organize to have weekly clean up of say 2 hours in a hot spot for litter...and clean it...establish a visual presence that can evoke a 'lead-by-example' sort of thing.. Other ideas to follow... One or two people cannot do it all...and DCA could use help from individuals. Sorry, I just hat to get all that off my shoulders today! :whip: I simply find complacency utterly nauseating and boring, especially on the quality of life, health/environment or broken-window-theory type issues.

We shall see...

No surface lots...decks, ok.

This is not copyrighted material. I thought this would be of interest to many UOers interested in sustainability, cleaner water resources and curbing sprawl... a point many people do not realize is that our main rivers are only as good as the small streams that feed into them.... There are new forms of pollution these days that are visually less dramatic than those of the past, but potentially equally harmful, if not more in many ways.... I just copy and pasted this.... Hope you will sign the petition. Once again, Lake Erie is in trouble. This time, instead of BP trying to pump more waste into the lake's water, a few judges have stirred things up, leaving the streams and wetlands that feed and filter Lake Erie more vulnerable to pollution and reckless development. As Congress prepares to hold hearings on this problem, I hope you'll join me in demanding the full restoration of Clean Water Act protection to all of our waterways. Click here to sign the petition. For three decades, the meaning of the Clean Water Act was as clear as the sky is blue: Lake Erie? Protected. The Cuyahoga River? Protected. The small tributaries that feed the Ohio River? Protected, protected and protected, along with every single lake, river, stream and wetland in Ohio, big and small. Then, in a controversial decision, a bitterly divided Supreme Court exempted small streams and many wetlands from the law. The effect? In Ohio, the law now leaves up to 60 percent of our streams, an area the EPA estimates as a source of drinking water for 3,471,892 Ohioans -- open to more pollution and development. That's disturbing news. As we know, when it comes to our environment, whatever goes around comes around -- if we allow polluters and developers free rein over smaller streams and wetlands, it's only a matter of time before the effects extend downstream, including Lake Erie. The Bush administration only made things worse. Under President Obama, we finally have a chance to make things right. That's why, with Capitol Hill hearings coming up, it's critical that our congressional delegation -- especially Reps. John Boccieri, Robert Latta and Jean Schmidt, who sit on the committee that will hold the hearings -- know that you, and thousands of others who care about our waters, are on our side. Show them your support for full protection for all of our waters by signing this petition now. http://www.environmentohio.org/action/clean-water/petition-congress?id4=ES It's time to restore all of Ohio's waters to health. Thanks for making it possible. Sincerely, Amy Gomberg Environment Ohio Program Director [email protected] http://www.environmentohio.org P.S. Thanks again for your support. Please feel free to share this e-mail with your family and friends.

Write to RTA.... share these thoughts... Good points.

This is interesting. Those who chose not to have these...doesn't help the cause. It sends a message that its ok to be a tosser....throw your buts on the ground, because someone else MIGHT clean it up. If enough over time get thrown into the tree planters, it will surely eventually affect the health of the trees through leaching of chemicals.The butts themselves do not break down as most people seem to think they do. I hope no one laughs at me for saying this...but it is very possible. All the money spent on this wonderful street-scape to see it dissed like this. Not the impression I want to send. I used to smoke and acknowledged tossing the butts is the same as littering. Why it is so difficult for some smokers to 'get it' on this issue is baffling. Imagine of all these butts were something larger like cans, or plastic bottles. How would the street look?

Sorry, I didn't want to pull this way off topic people.... But....My original...'from the beginning' point, when someone praised the abandonment.... was that it is not necessarily a good thing to see these abandonments due to many similar areas being gateways into cities and the visual/economic negative implications associated, the idea of new sprawl cannibalizing old sprawl, etc.----and an extra point that it could not even be reverted back to farming, if nothing else. All over the state, I don't exactly see a line forming for new occupancy of these properties and their lands (hard enough filling a lot of the new spaces)--Which is why decades of allowing developers and the chamber driven community, ONLY to dictate land use policy, is like letting Dracula watch the blood bank, or loggers being in charge of forest management and promoting bio-diversity within them. Bottom line...someday soon, in a state with our current urban and rural characteristics bumping into one another in many places.......if we want to curb all the willy nilly sprawl the majority of us frown upon on UO, then we will have to face the fact we need a more comprehensive statewide land use approach designed and authored by a body that consists of a much more diverse body of input....than just the developers for sprawl-mart and politicians. The right hand needs to know what the left hand is doing between communities, so to speak, and how they affect each other, rather than all doing their own thing and not forming a more consistent end result and picture. A more regional approach is what I am getting at.... Such was tried in the 70's but shot down by the "its my property and I'll do whatever I wish" philosophies...which disregard the interests of other property owners they may affect. The upstream polluter analogy is a good example. I cannot remember the states that already do implement what I am trying to say here.. I think Conn. was one of them, but the result here and philosophy would be less emphasis for developing sprawl...and more for urban core renewal and creating vibrant cores, while preserving the rural way of life and the independent family farming community which are often forced or left no choice but to dell out from sprawl pressures...and also maintaining the integrity of smaller communities. Man, I am sure someone could express what I am trying to say in a much more concise way!

^, Ok, these points are very well taken and considered....But, is their (union) alternative letting it look like crap in meantime all because they're not willing to work with a private secotor in somehow letting DCA do the majority of litter clean up on the square because of what the contract says? The contract is not working in the current environment, so maybe it is time to re-think things. I don't want to know why we 'can't' do something, we hear that again and again....... Rather, I want to know HOW we CAN. With new residents eventually coming in to live on the square as stakeholders/positive contributors in this community, they will naturally demand more--and, we will not attract such residents with a lot of the current atmospheres on the square. Who wants to invest in such a place to live if they get the feeling of unsafe or unwelcome...or seedy/trashy? How many union city employees live on/near the square? (I know The Park Building is the new beginning with this, and issues would have to concern anyone in their position trying to draw a new population) Now they're not even required to live in the proper. So, this issue is not as much a concern to those who don't have to see it all the time. DCA is not a 'free service'. Will someone come on here from DCA and clear the air on this, please? Someone funds them, right? Isn't it a lot of the downtown merchants who help pay for their services? The bottom line is that the union is falling short on what should be a major priority downtown, for whatever the reason--in keeping a front room as trash/litter free as possible at all times on the square and surrounds...So it is time for a new approach. If there is a way they could be more instrumental in getting the job done, let's hear it...and I welcome it---because I am not being anti-union here...rather, I am "anti-inefficient" If there is a better way to get the job done that satisfies all involved in the best way possible, let's hear it. Relocating the bus stops, I'll bet a thousand ,that you will see most of the litter curbed, although moved---but at least RTA can take some responsibility/action for their trash in and around their stops.