Etheostoma Caeruleum

^ I have seen it....But rarely...and in part perhaps because many likely don't even know such laws exist, or they just don't actually catch it in the act. Mike White made an issue of this once when someone dumped an ashtray in the middle of the street... And I thought how good someone finally said something about this bad habit of pitching things on the ground that too many people seem to think is a normal thing. My philosophy is that if you cannot tackle these smaller issues that are linked to becoming bigger issues....then there is a problem somewhere along the line in the pride department.

^Technically... $500.00 fine in Ohio... $60.00 and ENFORCED in Queensland and Victoria Australia... Hence why they have literless walks and streets...cities in general.

^ Good for nothing? What in the world are you talking about? :? From a construction perspective, you are speaking..... I am speaking from a totally different one... Growing...and how such properties like this mall site become something that really cannot be reverted back to such uses without the topsoils. That was my point, that's all. You are speaking from an engineering perspective, I am speaking from an ecological one...two very different ball games. Topsoil is therefore essential in a more organic and nutrient rich growing of food. You do eat, I assume? The characteristics and properties you describe about the soil is what makes it so rich...and has our region with amongst the richest growing soils in the world...and we're covering them up with parking lots. Now there is a useful resource... I wish it were, if it isn't already, that engineering students be required to also pass a rigorous course in ecology and perhaps something relating to sustainable agriculture practices. Then they wouldn't be thinking something like topsoil is useless....or that we can do the same thing to a riverbank that a riparian zone does, with concrete banks.

Old urban houses were in neighborhoods where they didn't scrape a thick layer off the top to lay out a 20 acre parking lot. Soil in those instances is in many parts/ways much in tact--a whole different ballgame than large scale mall-type developments. An urban garden has a much better chance on such a property.

Do you have any financial statements to back that up? If they were not breaking even or profitable, I doubt they would still be up. I dislike the dishes as well..... Also, there was a time I actually used to do volunteer work for the visitors bureau up ion the deck....and one long time Clevelander told me stories of the outdoor deck being opened at one time....but I believe it was way above the 42 floor area...the second 'gated' platform.

Landmark Towers have looked stained on that one side for decades. I don't understand why it seems it was never cleaned. Maybe it won't come out... Maybe they need a Billy Mays product to remove the stains! I have written to management several times inquiring about this with no reply. Maybe someone out there will have better luck than I, in getting a reply.

Love the house.. I also read the article above that was older. It would be nice to see a "Christmas Story Land" If you look at the film in scenes where there were shots of the neighborhood, you can see that it was in better condition than it is now... The houses on W.11th next to the CS house look deplorable. Not even the "Bumpas' " house looked that bad. I would like to see that street cleaned up more and become a destination block. At least get the owners some assistance in getting the places to look respectable..or get after any absenteeism.

Please explain the choice of words?? I think the choice of words are pretty funny! Pretty much self explanatory. Ha! The inconvenient truth, maybe?

^ Maybe a good spot for a health/nutrition store which sells lots of glucosamine! :strong:

^ I guessed Toledo because of "The Andersons" Isn't that store in Toledo? Maybe it can be a new set for another Dawn Of The Dead movie!

^ Yes, I agree...This DOES make them look bad and in my interpretation...complacent and lax---and I would make a sure bet they'd have opposite opinions. But the image the neglect levies on them is what it is. The DCA goes above and beyond the call of duty and you would think that with budget and perhaps even labor shortage issues, that unions would WELCOME DCA to pick up the slack. After 5:00 PM is the union even concerned with P.S.? They cannot handle the load, and need to set the pride aside and admit it. I shudder to think what downtown would look like without DCA.

^ You spoke the inconvenient truth. Thanks! One of our "front rooms" as I refer to the square as being, should be much much better than it is... It is a slap in the face to the history of the square and the tower complex as well seeing a lot of it in this current situation. Maybe as residents, we should just go do it. Would it at least force the issue for downtown residents who demand better?....Onions on the union in this case if it is a cause of holding back the improvement of the square...where is it a law that suggests they can stop a private residence from cleaning up something?....

Good photo captures. The graffiti/tagging is an eyesore, anywhere though.

Big malls helped kill the downtowns....then More sprawl killed the old mall and the cycle continues?

^ No problem, I knew what you were saying....I agree with you... I was just hoping that I would not be alone in this effort. I emailed the city and a couple council people so far, called the hotel and Forest City and had chats. There was a concern. I just think if more people expressed these concerns about improving this situation, we'd get the ball rolling. Thanks!

Wait.. Why should "I", or any one person alone...be taking this up with City Hall? The point is to not pass the buck....All who care should be taking it up with City Hall.. this isn't "my" issue, it is Cleveland's. And if people don't have an issue with this and are complacent with the present condition, then that in itself is a problem that is a bit disturbing. The expectations of improvements are really very basic, nothing extraordinary...and just a part of what should be their routine focus.

I can think of two reasons, which are under-recognized and rated... that Buffalo is a progressive city... 1. They have seriously recognized the ill effects on the city of illegal, obnoxious, unnecessary noise pollution in their neighborhoods and have taken a role model approach as to introducing legislation to effectively deal with it to regain the quality of life in neighborhoods... See the praises in www.noiseoff.org 2. Also, I believe they have taken a strong approach in limiting lawn chemical uses.... which threaten water quality. For me, these two reasons alone--which are connected to potentially much more dramatic and easily recognized (via broken window theory) issues-- place Buffalo on my good list. Good on you, Buffalo!

Although I hate malls....This is not necessarily all good because many of these areas are gateways into cities....and I don't want to see them end up looking like vandal magnets. I am sure that somewhere just 10 minutes from this place, another new sprawl mall was built. This is exactly the scene I hate to envision Ohio looking like because of all the cannibalizing sprawl. (sprawl killing sprawl, killing more sprawl...sprawl some more) You really cannot farm this sort of area again, as all the top soil is gone...and what lies beneath is contaminated from asphalt anyway. This is a poster child example of PPP... 'piss poor planning' One of the best things Ohio can do to preserve what remains in commercial areas like this...and downtowns, is to simply quit the building of new sprawl areas which we do not need, and focus on growth from within...not outward. I know that philosophy, however, slaughters a sacred cow amongst the short sighted and chamber driven folks, though. There answer is always.... "this growth will save us" I believe growth beyond maturity is cancer, as we witness in the photos. There is a website that features dead malls... www.deadmalls.com Check that one out and see all the malls. Maybe future uses for such structures can be indoor cities....with residences too, besides just retail. Please...No more flea markets. Is this near/in Toledo somewhere? I hope you are kidding about the soil being contaminated from the asphalt, and all the top soils being gone. No! Why would I be kidding?.. The topsoil in such places IS mostly gone because when places like these are developed...it is scraped away and the soil under that does get affected by chemicals that leach from asphalt. Most of the beneficial nutrients and organisms are within the first 6 to 12 inches. On the other hand...Due to erosion alone, a very large percentage of topsoil gets washed away each year. I think the average was about some 70% of the original topsoil in this country is gone, hence why your foods are devoid of most trace minerals/nutrients. All that is replaced in typical farming is phosphorous and nitrogen....just enough to make the food 'look good' and last on the shelf and have a high yield. But the nutrition content is slack/crippled. Most food these days is produced for quantity, not nutrition content. It takes between 100 to 500 years for nature to produce one inch of topsoil, so you explain to me how such can function when covered in pavement? Topsil is precious... limited Here, see why: http://www.vivausa.org/activistresources/guides/planetonaplate1.htm http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/globalchange2/current/lectures/land_deg/land_deg.html

I am writing to Forest City..and the hotel about these issues. Maybe if they get enough contacts, it may illicit a bit of change. I wrote Forest City, called as well...and contacted the hotel. The hotel was really concerned about issues they can control in front of their properties. It is a start. No one says anything, the issue becomes not a big issue...But lots of comments/complaints and/or suggestions, are the bare beginnings of pushing for a bit of needed improvements.

^ I think I know what you're saying... Union issues on public parks related thing, bla, bla.... Something to that effect. Well, I would agree, then.... The union is not meant to be a shield for slacking. This should be a great discussion because something really needs to be solved with this issue. I would not want one of our 'front rooms' to be analogous to the hamburger that looks good in the picture...but looks like crap when you see the real thing. (kind of like the issue Michael Douglass made in the movie "FALLING DOWN") Its a place I want to go...to take guests... But then there are the elements as described...that just spoil it. Re-thinking things.. I think it was a mistake to make what should be a spectacular public space...into a giant bus stop. That is another issue, but a lot of the cause of the issues I described above.

Tonight, I was walking a lot through downtown with my dog. All seems well until walking in front of the Terminal Tower where litter/butts/bottles seem to frequently collect. Another area of the square, the southwest quadrant...especially near the bus stop areas seems equally uninviting in the way of the trash. I was going to write to the hotel and request they do a better job up- keeping their walks around the hotel, but I figure it may be a waste of time if were only me. And as for the cig. butt issue, and while I was a big supporter of smoke free indoor environments, I really did not anticipate all the litter that results when people stand outside and simply flick them carelessly onto the ground. Is it just me, or does anyone see the ugliness in this....especially around one of Cleveland's 'front rooms' where every effort should be made to keep it immaculate....a especially when all this money is spend on restoring/redesigning the streetscape---Only to see it gather filth like this. I don't expect things to be clean as virgin forest, but a lot of the time, these areas are not even close to looking respectable in my book---and it is among the FIRST things people may see when visiting the city.. Sorry, but Public Square should not be "Public Scare!" I would hope that instead of defending this, that most people will simply admit we need to do a better job with this area of downtown and rise above the complacency that tolerates it. I have to admit, if I had never been here before, my impression of these parts of the square would be that it is a dirty place and not very welcoming feeling. Sorry, I know this will probably offend some people who might think we have no room for improvement....but I wish this really would be a priority more than it is. My standard is actually very average and not unreasonable. Many cities have public places with lots of traffic and they are the opposite. I just think that maybe the expectations for such a place here... have always been so used to being so low, below grade "D", perhaps......that when someone expects a C plus or maybe "B minus"..... it is seen as having unreasonable expectations...and I would have to say BULL to that. Anyway, just thought I would throw this around, because the beautiful tower draws you right in front of it...and there are just some areas of the square that are disappointing. I hope someone can see what I am seeing. Maybe I am being selfish to want to walk here and for once not see the area tattered with butts, trash, etc.... If Euclid is going to become all eateries and bars, then along comes Fine..Ok, but how will we manage this? Does anyone not think that left unabated, that such is not a visual, deterrent? Do you want visitors to think we have no pride? I just expect more in what will be a first impression for many of the city. Go to Singapore... plenty of smoking...NO butts/litter all over the place..and a bigger city too. Let's learn from other places. Its about pride..pride is free... I just think we need to improve this situation, not downplay, or excuse it. I hope some of the ash cans that will be given away for free... might help make a bit of a difference, or at least, in a few people, institute a different mentality.

^ I see their presence as a neighborhood being pro-active about improving issues that may affect their quality of life---instead of cowering in the home and pretending problems don't exist.

... and a widening gulf between the affluent/influential and the poor/powerless, as the stratification of wealth continues. Agreed totally... All the more reason to find another way than to keep having to rely on"big brother corporation"and all their empty promises to run in and save the day for the community like The Lone Ranger. Let's re-focus on creating an economic landscape/environment that fosters the growth of smaller enterprises, family owned businesses, and stakeholders in the community. Create an environment that panders and caters to the smaller enterprises more..the stakeholders, instead of only the shareholders. There is a big difference. That is how things started and maybe it is time to get back to some basics.

I live about 1,000 feet away from that site and was headed home on that road when the landslide occurred. Given the large amount of construction activity at the site and the fact that they were on a fast track and working practically 24 hours a day and given that Ohio River Boulevard is heavily travelled it was a miracle that no one was hurt or killed. Ironically, a local citizens group opposed to the development for quality of life reasons had an engineering study done which showed that this was likely to occur. The municipality of Kilbuck had waived over 71 zoning and land use requirements in order to be able to grant a building permit. The state Department of Transportation allowed the developer to use the developer's numbers for the estimated traffic, instead of the industry standard "Traffic Impact" data in order to keep the developers from having to make any significant changes to the road, in spite of the fact that the developers numbers would have made that Wal-Mart one of the poorest performing Wal-Marts in the state. The state Department of Environmental Protection and the Allegheny County Health Department approved the site tapping into Emsworth's sewage system even though the pumping station did not have the capacity and, even though under the best assumptions, a failure of that pumping station would have resulted in thousands of gallons of raw sewage pouring into a local creek. The DEP also did not require a retention pond for the run-off (their failure to include this in a Sam's Club development along the same creek a few miles up resulted in such flooding that in September of 2004 when the rains from Hurricane Ivan hit the region over 25 cars at a local used car dealer which was perched on a land fill adjacent to the creek were washed into the creek spilling fuel and shearing off bridge abutments and manholes from the storm sewer buried under the creek). During the rebuild of that sewer system it was discovered that Emsworth, which had been pressured by the DEP to provide sewage access for the Wal-Mart, was actually illegally tapping into a sewer system belonging to another municipality. All an all it was an illustrative case of how elected officials, in a desperate attempt to allow Kilbuck some tax relief, waived the very protections that they had put into place to prevent such an occurrence, thereby essentially causing it to happen. When will people learn the nonsense behind this pervasive propaganda-chamber driven myth that "Sprawl-Mart"..and "sprawl" in general will save them from economic disaster! Sometimes we might want to heed the warnings of the whistle blowers in the community who go through great lengths doing the homework and math no one wants to do.... before jumping on the snake oil bandwagon for the sake of saving 5 cents on Fruit-Of-The Looms and Cheetos!

Although I hate malls....This is not necessarily all good because many of these areas are gateways into cities....and I don't want to see them end up looking like vandal magnets. I am sure that somewhere just 10 minutes from this place, another new sprawl mall was built. This is exactly the scene I hate to envision Ohio looking like because of all the cannibalizing sprawl. (sprawl killing sprawl, killing more sprawl...sprawl some more) You really cannot farm this sort of area again, as all the top soil is gone...and what lies beneath is contaminated from asphalt anyway. This is a poster child example of PPP... 'piss poor planning' One of the best things Ohio can do to preserve what remains in commercial areas like this...and downtowns, is to simply quit the building of new sprawl areas which we do not need, and focus on growth from within...not outward. I know that philosophy, however, slaughters a sacred cow amongst the short sighted and chamber driven folks, though. There answer is always.... "this growth will save us" I believe growth beyond maturity is cancer, as we witness in the photos. There is a website that features dead malls... www.deadmalls.com Check that one out and see all the malls. Maybe future uses for such structures can be indoor cities....with residences too, besides just retail. Please...No more flea markets. Is this near/in Toledo somewhere? I wonder where all the stores went? To a new mall in a third and fourth ring of sprawl, I wonder...