Etheostoma Caeruleum

To be honest, at first, I found this site a little confusing to navigate through. So many different threads...that many, I see, can actually be consolidated into discussions that would accommodate the great exchange of ideas you pointed out---but if someone tweaks just an inch to the right, left, up, or down, BLEEEEPPP!!! The "Off Topic" police come. Oh, is this off topic? Sorry! :-D :-o

No doubt, your observations are likely the reasons. I can think of some others but I do not want to make any unfounded assessments. It seems all places in the WD would take a credit/debit swipe.. I know Constantino's does... I am not a big bar person so I don't know about many others.

Such a message could have been sent personally. Posting it on the main thread is worse than the original accusations of Off Topic. I agree. Just as new people who come to this forum, me included, maybe need to get a better grasp of how the forum works, a feel for the characters here, etc... (I am trying!) Moderators should understand how the bullying, for lack of a better way to put it, must look to new forumers. This works both ways, so if you want to attract more good people, maybe a bit less with the 'tick tock..the game is locked' thing. No 'yeah buts' here.. It would be nice if they were fair and just took it on board, just as I have been taking on board what they say and try and follow the rules, respectfully. Overall, I like this site and the threads and posters. I hope I will stay.

Not a small concern at all. I find it a bit bush league that the option to swipe a debit card is not offered at such places in a downtown setting. Granted, many smaller businesses avoid such because of terminal fees, etc... But, from what you say, you were hardly in Mayberry...Not Saks, either...But, somewhere in between where that should have been an option more often. And some places wonder why they lack business.

Well, complacency on these issues nationally has been a big part of the reason they are allowed to escalate. Those who have been conditioned to think "that's just the way it is" become a part of the problem. On excessive/unnecessary noise issues specifically, there is always something you can do. I would suggest first, to begin to become educated and well informed on the issue. The best sources are www.noisfree.org www.noiseoff.org and www.lowertheboom.org Read these sites thouroughly, then if you have an issue, solutions can be discussed. The less accountable people who do not know how to behave in communal settings are held...the lower the standards become by not only themselves, but to their peers as well, and when that happens, the result is "weell..that's just how it is" Granted, nothing will be perfect, but in many places, we have a long way to go just to get back to average and acceptable behavior, if you have someone pelting you with unwanted sounds. If you do have a specific noise issue, I can share my ideas on how I have been successful in abating such. It is a long and grueling process. If you live in New York, I suggest contacting Richard Tur with Noiseoff. I started the thread for those interested in real solutions which can be discussed in a mature fashion...and not to get on and simply gripe about it. There are some people who really need help with such an issue and I am willing to offer what I know works within the confines of national, state, and local law.

Hi, just wanted to see if there were any takers in wanting to discuss how to abate problems such as unnecessary, obnoxious, or excessive noise in a neighborhood.... littering, graffiti, and many other quality of life issues that follow the path of the 'broken window theory' If there is such a thread, please disregard, but if not, I am looking for those who would actually be willing to get pro-active on such issues. My expertise is in the area of abating unnecessary, purposefully initiated, and excessive, noise issues. I have a wealth of knowledge and experience on that topic, (not by choice!) in how it socially, physically, (property values) environmentally, and economically can and will ruin any given place... Yet, ironically, by most, it is seen as a mere nuisance issue, and often not thought about at all...but that could not be farther from the real truth. Quality of life issues can be a bit more specific than general crime issues. (I know there is a thread on that) This thread can discuss more about preventions and specifics, so I don't get accused of going off topic. So, if any of this sounds interesting, let's talk.

I totally understand everything here word for word, but my whole idea was about not just promoting 'retail' to attract new visitors/residences or vice versa... It was about 'what KIND of retail' to attract (to help draw more residents/visitors) amidst this over-saturated chain gang retail market--and as a small business operator of the past, I just said it would be nice to, in addition to what is going on with the retail plan, that downtown also become a concentrated mecca for independent/local unique businesses where they can all concentrate their powers of presence and be a force again. And, offer a real definition to downtown--rather than people having to drive all over creation to find such places they would prefer supporting in contrast to big chains and the clone zones. I mentioned that besides the idea of giving the big guys a subsidy, maybe we should give the smaller talents a chance for once as was how a city grew in the first place, from the roots. I just indicated it would blend nicely with the DTA retail plan. In other words, let some local talents have the chance to rise again. If we are going to be different to attracting mass, we cannot ignore the importance being different, which includes giving opportunity for smaller locally owned venues. The question was posed in how to obtain such smaller enterprises, and as a small business owner, I offered my idea about incentives. I will say nothing more on this topic.

I disagree.. How many threads do we have to have before we realize many of these are tie in subjects. These subjects are not off topic and are related. In order to draw the mass back downtown, it is important to understand some of the reasons it dissolved in the first place--and some of these reasons are directly related to the leaching of people and businesses over the years from the core to the outlying areas--and some of that has to do with how we have allowed developers to dictate planning and land use policies that have resulted in sucking away the critical mass. Letting the developers dictate land use policy/planning is like letting loggers dictate forest management. So, my point is that these subjects are intertwined and about cause and effect...and if we cannot understand the history of this outmigration and some of the causes, we will be condemned to keep repeating it again and again. With all due respect, you might disagree, but the MODS/ADMINS, have the final say how the forum is organized as MayDay pointed out in the Cleveland: Lakefront Development News thread. I don't want to curb your posting, as I think your heart is in the right place, but I wouldn't test MayDay. As he has often said, "posting here (on UO) isn't a right, it's a privilege". Yes, but these subjects are not off topic. Is the thread about critical mass? Drawing critical mass? If not, I must be mistaken by the title. Just by you posting what you did dragged this way more off topic than anything previously posted. For goodness sakes... How can an exchange of ideas get going and a good discussion that can find solutions... if someone is always there hitting the shock collar saying 'bleeep---off topic!' I agree, there are many times things like this go to the extreme when people start getting personal and/or too political, but I am not sold on why, what either I, or 327 posted was so off topic. Someone said "In this thread we are talking about increasing the downtown population so that it becomes a bona fide residential option for people." Yes, understanding what drained it in the past can help refuel it in the future--and I hinted ad those push and pull factors, mentioned what could help some smaller business locate there to help draw more people (residents), or vice versa...so we can strive to not repeat the past process that drained both. But that is off topic?

Ok, I see the announcement and events above, but I do not see the meeting spot. How much are the tours? Oh, and just thought of this... Are there any plans for that old YMCA building perched near the bridge over the zoo on the north east end of the bridge?

I disagree. How many threads do we have to have before we realize many of these are tie in subjects? These subjects are not off topic and are related. In order to draw the mass back downtown, it is important to understand some of the reasons it dissolved in the first place--and some of these reasons are directly related to the leaching of people and businesses over the years from the core to the outlying areas--and some of that has to do with how we have allowed developers to dictate planning and land use policies that have resulted in sucking away the critical mass. Letting the developers dictate land use policy/planning is like letting loggers dictate forest management. So, my point is that these subjects are intertwined and about cause and effect...and if we cannot understand the history of this outmigration and some of the causes, we will be condemned to keep repeating it again and again. That is why those are tie in subjects. I agree with 327.

Word EC! I especially agree on the functionality of the installed plants as well as sustainability in terms of maintenance. We need to think really really green on this plant installation and see it as more than just a pedestrian restaurant row. I'm especially interested in winter landscaping as the E4 install is rather disappointing in this regard. Would be fun to get creative with growing food crops as well... Is Building Cleveland By Design being consulted for this project? Who is selecting plants for this? They can contact Ohio Prairie Nursery and Ohio Wild Ones for consultation on a selection of plants that would actually offer a pleasant visible presence year 'round. It would be good if some of us wrote and suggested this. It is also just one small example of another way a city can go greener in terms of the environment..and not just spraying poisonous chemicals down keeping turf grass green all year-which is basically an eco-dead zone leaching nitrogen into the lake. I cannot even see lightning bugs like we used to in such places. Someone at Ohio Wild Ones said to me.. "If the only thing in your yard moving is a lawn mower...then its time to start thinking about a more natural/native landscape"

They go hand in hand, don't they?... People don't just show up somewhere for no draw or reason. What was the original point of living in cities? You need some mass to serve the retail..and retail to serve the mass. Which comes first? Chicken or egg?

When will it air?

Really?, when will it re-open?

Thanks for this.... I was actually first familiar with the area (including a few neighborhoods around there) in 1988 when I was canvasing and selling my Rainbow Cleaning Systems. Many people with a lot of woodwork loved these machines and still do. I spent a great deal of time in the neighborhood and surrounds and overall, thought it was good...with good potential, some areas better than others. At that time, a real-estate agent named Tom Beyer was showing us some homes. Does anyone know him? I loved Archwood street, which is near the neighborhood, (not directly in it?) and loved the area near the hospital....and where the tropical fish store used to be (All-Champ) When the time is right, I would consider a house there again...one that is on a good street, pretty quiet and with some longer term residents/neighbors. Maybe a place needing some fix up that can be purchased modestly, with some nice woodwork. I liked the trees along many of the streets. Anyone want to message me and maybe we can arrange to look around the neighborhood..if there are any tour takers? I know my way around there, won't get lost, but that is more from a working perspective and not an up close and personal one.

Been reading these comments. My take is that N.E. Ohio (Ohio in general really, but let's just talk here) has completely overbuilt and saturated retail until it has cannibalized itself. (example Rite Aid on one corner..and across the street CVS-One closes) We have over built until the point other things close. What has usually closed in any given area are locally owned/independents. The clone zone chain gang is what a downtown retail scene has to compete with these days. When Jacobs built the mall in Strongsville, after vehement opposition, it basically killed his own mall at the Galleria, as I was informed from a good source when he built that, he was already luring retailers out of it to go to S.ville. Ok, so knowing what the competition is...I have come to the conclusion that if any old historic downtown urban core is to survive amidst this haphazard retail scene in the burbs, it must define itself exclusively as a place the endangered species of local/independent businesses can consolidate in one area and thrive together. The target market would be people like me who refuse to shop at sprawl scenes anymore. Those who want a different experience and who are willing to pay a little extra to enjoy the real street downtown shopping experience. No longer will they have to run all over creation to seek out these unique businesses. It is also crucial, that the selection is not only unique enough to draw those from the region, but also it has to be a selection to create a fully functional downtown..and this means businesses which serve the needs of daily life to where you can minimize car dependency. The walkable place is an attraction to those who want this sort of thing, as we all know. (I do realize downtown already does serve many daily needs, but it could be a bit better) These are the kinds of businesses that we should more or less be going after to help fill the downtown again, in addition to the retail plan of DTA. I think it would be a nice complimentary blend. If someone...I don't know who.. But if someone can get such businesses to come to the center with deals they cannot refuse on leases etc, as this would help encourage the entrepreneurial spirit of those who wish to start up their business (those who don't want to suit up and work for Wal-Mart) We have given freebies to the big guys for decades hoping they'd ride in and save us all like The Lone Ranger, and that has not worked all the time. maybe it is time to tap back into our local roots and get these landlords at the table with potential tenants and get something going. Does such have to be as difficult to do as getting Mid east peace talks going? As for what area should define today's downtown? In my opinion, whether you live in Tremont, O.C. the near east side in Asia T. etc..etc.. ALL of this should be defined as downtown, because all are in such a short distance of each other. I don't think the imaginary line should stop at Ohio City, when many of these residents criss cross and support each other, as well as the heart of downtown. Thus, the new boundaries could really include these near side neighborhoods. It would be like 'annexing' them as a part of the new accepted boundaries to determine just who could potentially support the core. Overall, downtown potentially gets support from those in the suburbs and those in the city itself. Those who are lower income in the city itself, would likely support the lull and deception of cheap prices at sprawl-mart, etc... Those who live in and move into the city looking for something different, would support such an independent retail scene as I described above. Anyway, that is just my take from operating a small shop for 10 years and discovering what I wished would come of what was left of the small local retail/service scene--and had several others agree. I operated a custom aquarium shop as a matter of fact, very museum-ish and higher end...but I catered to everyone. Often the service, quality, knowledge and experience of my store was worth it to everyone who shopped in it, as opposed to the heartless sprawl scene that offered the cheap price on the surface, but at the cost of people being denied what means so much more after point of sale. They found they spent more in the long run. But that is my take as a small business operator. If downtown had offers to me that would cater as much to me as the big guys, I might even consider opening up another custom aquarium shop again in downtown Cleveland. But I guess 100 small and health quality businesses are not as good as that one big chain store we have been so accustomed to seeing all over. Wow, do you think someone might want something different for a change? And I agree with 327, if Girard/Niles, etc can support what they support with their population, then downtown can support more. Cleveland should broaden its scope of what downtown includes in its 'un-official' boundaries.

Attractive buildings...clean looking.

Can't wait to see this all finished! Its a good thing bridge users could not see under the old bridge or they would have freaked out! That was crumbling to pieces in a hurry!

This is great. It would help the birds even more if more people installed feeders and some native plants... but with the proper seed/feed...not the "Sprawl-Mart" cheap stuff containing 75% millet they never eat. I used to run a small bird feeding store some years ago. I don't know if it is still there, but way out east in Madison, I believe, there is a place called "Backyard Feeding Station" if it is still there, it is a fabulous source for wild bird feed needs and all the knowledge you can ask for. Audubon Society a great source as well. Great tribute to the fact we are on an important flyway. The alley project on Vine Court in Ohio City will try and produce rest, and feed sources for the birds as well.

The rural bias is unsustainable. I feared so much this stimulus transportation money would go for sprawl, more than urban cores. If it does, it is a big shame and waste and will only have us more oil dependent...and keep the hole on urban cores growing and growing. The following statement scares the hell out of me, especially in Ohio, where we just cannot sustain anymore of this willy nilly haphazard suburban sprawl... "The stimulus law provided $26.6 billion for highways, bridges and other transportation projects, but left the decision on how to spend most of it to the states" May the Rock God help us all!

Wow! What a great example as to how nice these old homes can look!

By the way, how long will it take to see some noticeable changes?

Brooklyn was one of my favorite neighborhoods on the west side. To be honest, I know not a lot about it these days...But it would be good to learn. How is it these days as far as future revitalization? I would like to learn more about this neighborhood.

Well, if you have zero trees it will increase substantially. Most of the unnecessary/excessive traffic noise endured today is primarily from illegally modified exhausts, ragged ones, or boom cars. Check out www.noiseoff.org Come to think of it, a 'forest' at Kamms wouldn't be a bad idea! :-)

I used to serve on an arbor commission. I always shudder to think how more mature trees are removed t plant saplings. Especially along a noisy street. Trees help to reduce noise and clean the air of auto emissions.