WestBLVD

Yes, this project is just a facelift, but a second rate one compared with earlier plans. I just feel that Cleveland is being duped with a sort of Bait and Switch scheme. If you look at the original concepts we were given this really cool redesigned shoreway neighborhood. Now a few years later, we're given a watered down version that is no way near as exciting or interesting. Cleveland was given an opportunity to do something really cool and once again the plans fell through and now you get the current plan unveiled a few weeks ago. yawn. I can't believe people aren't fighting over this crappy design. It seems to be the typical Cleveland mentality, of "hey, there's going to be some investment, it's better to do something than nothing." Why can't we for once do something that is top notch, rather than another ho hum project?

Yes, the underpasses and tunnels definitely need to be redone, but the point is that they don't provide greater accessibility. If you used to access the park from that access point, then you will access it from the same point when the project is completed. I would have really liked to have seen this project provide more pedestrian access to Edgewater, and frankly it doesn't to the level that it's being hyped as. The reconfiguration of W 25th/W 28th, is just that, a reconfiguration. The only real plus from this that I see, is added vehicular access from W 76th. But then again, if you lived in Battery Park, would you really need to drive down to Edgewater? I would really like to see a better plan unveiled for the shoreway project. I just feel that Cleveland is getting ripped off by a not so great design, that in the end isn't going to benefit a lot of people.

What really are the goals of this project? Anyone who really thinks this will provide greater accessibility to Edgewater Park should look at the plan. There really aren't any new access points being added to Edgewater via tunnels or bridges. All we are getting is a spruced up version of the access points that already exist. If you want to get to the park, you will still access it through the same underpasses as you do today (lake/clifton, W 76th, W 65th). Second point to make, a multi-purpose path ALREADY EXISTS between West Blvd and W 65th. The addition of a multi-purpose path along the shoreway from these two roads does NOT provide greater accessibility to the park as it BYPASSES the park to the south. The stretch of multi-purpose path being created from W 65th and to the east doesn't increase accessibility to Edgewater because the walking distance is still the same as if you took the sidewalk to W 65th and used that underpass. As I stated last week, the neighborhoods around W 45th to W 25th are over a mile from Edgewater. The amount of foot traffic that would use this section will be negligible. I'm tired of this project being touted as an accessibility to Edgewater project. Where are the additional underpasses, bridges that people will use to access the park? I'm also skeptical of a landscaped median. It's going to be hard to grow anything in this section of road because of the wind swept sand effect of Edgewater and the salting necessary to keep this stretch of road going in winter. I'm afraid we'll have a landscaped median that looks like the dead, brown grass median of Chester Ave.

What really should/should have been done with the Waterfront line is to make a red line connection to the track immediately after crossing over the Cuyahoga. In the morning the east bound Red Line trains that end their route at Tower City could instead have been diverted to the waterfront line. When you look at a map, the waterfront line stations are in close proximity to several major employers and downtown destinations. They are underutilized because it's just too inconvenient to get off the red line, wait for a waterfront line, and then get to your destination when you can a) take a trolley to where you need to go or b)just get off and walk over to your final destination.

Not surprising for the transit system which, until a year ago, lost (probably) 10s of thousands of dollars because of poor fare collecting techniques... Wait, what do I mean by a year ago, ... UOers, among others, are reporting many, many Red Line fare cheaters in light of the seeming total lack of roving RTA Transit Police enforcement under the new POP fare system. As someone else had stated, the amount of transit police checking fare cards and passes has literally jumped by leaps and bounds the past few weeks. I might have encountered one instance last fall where someone boarded the red line to check passes. The past few weeks almost 1/3 to 1/2 of all red line trips had someone check fare cards. Not surprising, the amount of people being caught on the red line without proper fares was not low. ...................... I'm sort of new to this site, but I would like to comment that having been on most of the major public transit systems in the US, RTA does a pretty good job with what they have. I can leave my house and walk to the red line, get on a train to Hopkins, take the escalator up to ticketing, go through security and be at the gate in about 30 minutes from the time I left home without ever having to step foot in a car. Try taking public transit from mid-town Manhattan to LaGuardia, which is only about 4 miles away. A) the subway does not go there B) The M-60 takes about 1.5 hours C)The infrequency of the M-60 means that once it fills up, the bus drivers just go past each stop with confused and upset bus goers scrambling to grab a taxi to catch their flight.

Upon further inspection of the plan released a few weeks ago, it doesn't look like a lot really will change along the shoreway for the price tag. As I stated a few pages back, the tree lined concept seems kind of out of place as the purpose is to see the lake, not shroud it behind trees. It appears from the plan trees will only be planted on the south side, which already contain trees, just not in an orderly fashion. I'm hesitant to believe that the pedestrian access will get much use. Anyone who lives in the Edgewater neighborhood of Cleveland will continue to use the nice paths that already exist along the beach cliff and then down the hill towards the beach and marina rather than using a proposed path along the shoreway. Residents in this area would have to go out of their way, away from the lakeside paths to use the shoreway side path to *enjoy* walking alongside a bunch of commuting cars. Folks who live in the Detroit Shoreway and Battery Park who currently use the tunnels at West 65th and West 76th will continue to use those points of entry to the park (albeit they should look nicer than they currently do). It should be pointed out, however, that the entry point at West 65th is really nice as it is. When residents from these areas cross under the tunnels, they will most likely be headed towards the beach, marina, or Whiskey Island. It would be unlikely that a pedestrian would find it nicer to walk along the road once crossing under the tunnel versus using the already existing lakeside paths in Edgewater Park. The proposed pedestrian route really only becomes a feasible entry point by non motorized means for those who live to the east of W 49th street as the shoreway pedestrian path is a direct shot to Edgewater. However, as any planner can tell you, a person is generally not willing to walk more than a half mile to get to their destination. Considering the park is a form of recreation, you can likely extend that distance a bit. However, since W 49th street is 1.2 miles from Edgewater Beach, it is unlikely the pedestrian use trail will get very high use in this vicinity. The shoreway was designed to get people from the west side to downtown via car. The proposed redevelopment tries to force a pedestrian use out of the shoreway that is not warranted and not a feasible use for many local residents. I bike from the west side of Cleveland to downtown almost everyday in the summer and this proposed path does not even benefit me as the path still has to cross up to Detroit to cross over the Detroit/Superior Bridge, making it much easier and enjoyable to continue to bike down Detroit through the new Gordon Square district. Perhaps this new shoreway will be good for our communities, but I truly believe that the shoreway should be left just the way it is and we actually use the money to develop a nicer SHORE.

The shoreway's current grade and the slope of the surrounding areas will never allow for development along most of its path. The reduction in speed to 35 mph, is not a big deal IMO, however when cars start to drive along it at 35mph, it will feel like your car is idling because of perspective. There is no need for such low speeds when there are no neighboring buildings. Next time you are on driving on I-90, reduce your speed down to 40 and see what it feels like. That's exactly what it will feel like on the shoreway. What also irks me is the tree lined boulevard concept! Trees lining the shoreway is the last thing we need. I thought the purpose was to create nice views, not grow towering trees that will completely block the view of the lake in a few years. It's not like we are Miami or LA with long slender trunks of Palms with a small canopy frawn. Also, Why are we developing a road that is at least a 1/4 mile inland for pedestrian access? We don't need to be able to walk along the shoreway. We need to be able to walk along the SHORE. Why can't we fix up those sea walls that are lakeside to the Marina and convert into a beautiful boardwalk that extends into Whiskey Island? Then from there, create a pedestrian bridge over the Cuyahoga into downtown and the proposed new Flats East Bank development? The last thing the shoreway needs is pedestrian access. Keep the shoreway for cars, develop the shore for people. A few more pedestrian bridges/tunnels from the Detroit-Shoreway Neighborhood to the lakefront is what is needed.

Outside of the remaining parcels at Battery Park, the entire stretch of development leaves little room residential development. Much of the success of this project rests on the fate of Downtown Cleveland. As downtown loses jobs to Independence, Westlake, and I-271, the demand and desire to live in this part of Cleveland when the jobs are elsewhere is low. I'd like to see this project take foot, but we can do a much better job with it than what the current plans are laying out.

I have a lot of mixed concerns over the potential conversion. I use potential as we are still looking at 2013 at the earliest. I have a hard time envisioning the shoreway as a place people will want to walk along. Sure, you can put in a grass median and add some decorative lampposts like every other streetscape project in America, but does that really improve the quality of life? Why would anyone want to walk along the shoreway, when they could use the paths that are actually at Edgewater beach? The inaccessibility argument is also a bit of a stretch. Currently there are 3 pedestrian access points to Edgewater. These tunnels are not as bad as people make them out to be. Making at grade intersections could perhaps save 30-45 seconds to someone's drive time to the park. I think this conversion to a blvd would be a great opportunity for Cleveland, but from everything I've seen the project looks ho-hum. Where's the creativity and ingenuity to actually make this a stunning project for Cleveland to brag about?

A couple more photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrored/3783598590/ actual LOFT http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrored/3782786117/ spiral staircase http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrored/3782783305/ kitchen http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrored/3782780453/ living area

Thanks for the welcomes. Parts of the building have been occupied since the early part of May. Construction is still ongoing, however. There are different courtyards inside that separate different age phases of the building (eg 1940s architecture versus 1800s). I snapped a few photos this evening: http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrored/3699820664/ Courtyards inside http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrored/3699015797/ Courtyards inside http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrored/3699828780/ Exterior

I have some other photos that I have taken as well: http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrored/3539981874/ Some of the units have spectacular views of downtown! http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrored/3539167701 An interior shot of the windows http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrored/3604395461/ This is a great example of the character of some of the units.

I have lurked on this website before, but finally registered today. I happened to take those photos of Tremont Place Lofts above as I have a friend who lives in there. The units inside are remarkable. This building was continually built upon and added onto since the early to mid 1800s therefore each unit has an entirely different vibe. Some of the units have an amazing art deco glossy orange brick from the 1940s, while some have a rustic looking brick, and others have interesting wood paneling. The floor plans of some of the units are quite funky, but they all have great character.