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It's actually interesting how the regulate it. On the service to the house, gas and electric must be seperated by 2 feet when running parallel. If they cross, they must by put in plastic sleeves. In the main utility trench the electric is always in conduit with the gas at 18-24 inches deep and the electric is usually 3 feet deep. I guess they see the plastic conduit as a sufficient barrier its a 1/4 inch thick and chemically welded together. Also, gas lines are more likely to leak at fittings, electric lines are more likely to be exposed at junctions, and now with modern materials these two utilities are both seemless until they reach the house.

Agreed. I was just stating why it costs more. In new residential subdivisions all utilities (electric, gas, communications, and sometimes water are buried in the same trench at their respective depths, but they have no existing infrastructure to work around. This makes it easier to connect utilities to the houses and easier to locate utilities.

COTA only has a few of these shelters with schedules, but if you do happen upon one they are very helpful. Does Metro really have none?

^ to add a little more to what jjakucyk said Reburying utilities in an area where there are currently other existing utilities makes costs skyrocket because of the displacement of other existing utilities and their repairs. Electric would be run in conduit 2-3 feet deep and the conduit has to have few turns, so it can't always go around existing utilities. Some existing utilities would have to be relocated. Also, existing utilities (mostly communications and gas with maybe a few water lines) will be hit during excavation and will need to be repaired further raising costs.

^UC website says 39,667.

^OSU is taking a lot of interest in the Weinland park area now. They have an early childhood eduction center there attached to the elementary school(although the demographic is not representative of the neighborhood), and they have an official representative of OSU in the Weinland park community now. However, most of this is not for the benefit of the residents but for the perception of parents of OSU students. OSU is definately not welcome in the community.

I thought Hilltop sold their property for a barge teminal for around 3 million after the original location was opposed vehemently by Price Hill residents. Also, I know Hilltop depends on the river to bring a lot of product to the plant. The only relocation option would be to go all the way up to Liberty, but I doubt the federal government will designate a truck route through a residential neighborhood. Trucks would have to come in on 52 from the east head north on Eggleston to Liberty then take Liberty to Central and back down to 50.

Cincinnati may get new hotel, garages due to casino By Lisa Bernard-Kuhn • [email protected] • June 18, 2010 Major projects that would add 3,000 new parking spaces and a new hotel could be on the horizon for downtown Cincinnati, as planners prepare for the incoming casino at Broadway Commons. Roughly 1,800 to 2,200 parking spaces are expected to disappear once work begins at Broadway Commons on the $500 million casino. That reality has city force city planners to hustle for a solution and so far three big projects are on their radar, says Bob Schroer, who heads up the city's Parking Division. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100618/BIZ01/6190316/Casino-may-spawn-hotel-garages

Yes, they have come down but are still routinely higher. We may be using perception but it is a perception of residents who actually live there and have experienced it. Also, there is no evidence to say we are wrong in our perception that many Cincinnatians fly out of neighboring airports. The only evidence we have is our own experiences and that of our neighbors, and it seems pretty overwhelming to us natives. Since John Mok took over as chief executive officer in 2009 he has actively tried to right the ship by bringing in other carriers. This is a tough job because of the stigma out there portrayed by outsiders, as this discussion has been a prime example. Other carriers in the past have chosen other surrounding airports to base out of due to Delta bullying the price of tickets. So until Delta started its mass exodus, no one has been approaching these airlines who had all given up on CVG due to Delta. As fares drop more local users will begin to use the airport, which is already happening, and Mok will have more ammunition to attract new airlines.

You have no basis to conclude that Cincinnatians don't go to surrounding airports in massive numbers. When natives tell you its happening you choose to simply ignore it, and I find that astonishing. I would even venture to say the majority of people I know depart from surrounding airports a majority of the time. I myself have flown out of other airports for 90% of my flights. And as I have previously mentioned, Fortune 500 companies and other businesses have been forced to search for cheaper flights elsewhere due to the price gouging at CVG. If you choose to ignore the facts that is your choice, but your assumptions about the habits of air travelers in the greater Cincinnati area has no foundation.

I always look at other airports to use first and hardly ever look at CVG, it has become a habit after so many years of outrageous prices. I know many business do this now as well. My dad works for P&G and they no longer only use CVG they shop around for cheaper flights. It would be interesting to see how many people go to CMH,DAY,IND, and SDF from the Cincinnati metro area, I'm sure it is substantial. Having four international airports within 2 hours of downtown provides significant competition.

^All valid points. My expertise is only in underground affairs. However, as for overhead wires shouldn't the catenary be much lower than any overhead wires in uptown and therefore cause few problems? I cannot foresee the moving of water mains for a project that is so superficial. Some valves may need to be moved but that is the extent that I can anticipate. In reality they could replace all of the mains downtown because they are all over 100 years old. Also, the old underground rails should not be a problem, the saws that cut the street can go right through them I have seen it.

I think Civvik was referring to adding bike lanes not the entire streetcar project. The utilities affected should be limited to those located running directly under where the rails are to be laid, and the relocation of manholes and the subsequent lines running to them. If utilities run under a small amount(less than 10 feet)of the track, or are perpendicular to the track, it will not be a problem. Sewers have to be 7 feet deep under the street, water has to be 42", gas has to be 18", and communications 2-3 feet, so the utility depth should not be an issue. As a discalimer this is downtown and things have the tendency to not follow the rules so some problems could arise with communications, but a majority of utilities should be out of the way of this project.

Pretty sure Columbus and San Antonio are two cities that have that policy.

^Hahaha indeed.

They have to keep it because its a state route and one of the only routes trucks can use to get through the downtown area. For example, I used to operate heavy machinery and when we would need to travel from the westside of downtown to the east we had to use Mehring Way.

And why does that make what has happened here right? When you try to fix something you don't look at the past and see how others have screwed up, you look to the future and what could be. And as far as being a destination, no the west side is not a destination. However, it is composed of a great populous of civil servants, nurses, and other blue collar worjers that are integral to the core functions of this city. Without the people of the westside the city could not function and all these destinations you speak of are irrelevant. You can't just crap on one side of town because businesses and attractions aren't located there. You have to realize these are people are allies that serve the city and will fight for the city, but not at the expense of their own neighborhoods.

Sorry but I think the notion of destroying one neighborhood for the betterment of another is ridiculous. The west side is mere minutes from I-75, I-71, downtown, Mt. Adams, Newport, Uptown, and Covington by using Glenway, Warsaw, or Queen City. The westside also has some of the most active residents and neighborhood organizations.

A brief article from the enquirer for the funding today. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100513/NEWS0108/5140362/+19M+more+for+streetcar They had it on the website for under an hour and now you have to search for it.

I wonder the same thing everytime I read one of their articles.

6-2 Ghiz was absent

Do you have a link to that company or product?

This is a great conversation! I don't think it is necessary for transit to turn a profit but just to cover its own expenses. Technically the streetcar will indirectly turn a profit for the city by bringing in more property and sales taxes. I just want to make sure that these increases will cover the costs of the reason for their existence. I also agree with John's statement about parking cost adjustments and TIF are good ideas.

I can't think of a popular form of transportation in America today that is funded by private investment... But shouldn't they be? Shouldn't the gas tax be raised by mileage or across the board to pay for itself? Shouldn't the users and beneficiaries of rail cover the operational costs in the same way? It all needs to be reformed somehow, but ideas are needed as to how to go about it. Just because we have screwed it up for so long doesn't mean that we need to continue to do so.

But isn't TIF funding solely for capital expenditures? Is there a way it can be allocated to cover the operational costs for the streetcar as well so that it will always be funded by the areas and users that use it? If I'm not making sense just tell me. I'm just trying to figure out a way to keep the streetcar from becoming political ammunition for the opposition because of operational costs when it is in operation.