gottaplan

I'm going to go ahead & say the school board approves the measure but the project still doesn't kickoff this year.

It's too bad there isn't an economic impact breakdown that could be shared & debated publicly. We put these types of analysis spreadsheets together in grad school for similar projects - they are used to balance the public incentives. I'm sure one exists - put it out there, let people hash it out. If the project has a real impact on public benefit, it will come out in the numbers.

I don't know much of anything about Jeff Johnson other than what I've read on this forum, but should he somehow win, I cant help but cringe at the national headlines that will announce Cleveland elected a former felon to become it's mayor....

I like "ScraPe"

This area has always intrigued me as an area with big potential but also big hurdles. A few that I see: - Environmental - given all this area was industrial, there undoubtedly needs significant testing & some abatement of the soils? - Infrastructure - same as above, these are large parcels - if residential is planned, it will need broken up into more of a residential grid, even if larger apartment/condo buildings are planned - Amenities - again, same as above, there's very little down here yet in terms of neighborhood amenities. - Grocery store would be Tremont or Ohio City or Warehouse District? - Public transit stops? Currently none? - Police presence? Currently none? Another challenge I see here is creating the right SCALE of development. Some 2-3 story townhomes might quickly get lost in this area. I think a couple taller buildings could fit very well - create more density and take advantage of some views of the river & such.

Driving through the west side of Cleveland last week, surprised how many signs I saw for Jeff Johnson, also a couple bill boards for Zack Reed. Crazy that Reed has been able to raise money to pay for anything

The retail component is the least valuable part of the deal. If there's a big demand for retail space, then go ahead & tear down the crap stores along Prospect or the lame Harry Buffalo, etc. Put something in the backside of the May Co. There's not a big demand but they are building it in anyhow. The residential units will be hard to fill. I understand the need to get to 20k residents for national retail exposure but this building will be the most expensive yet in Cleveland and it will be slow to fill, IMO. If the project were scaled back in design somehow to lessen the required rents, scratch the hotel, maybe it lessens the need for so much public assistance. Maybe it would've been financed & under construction by now. Great point also about Jeff Johnson's math. Opposing the deal means $0 added money for the schools. Then again, that's why Cleveland is so starved for these deals. Developers come flashing shiny deals & drawings, and get everyone excited and saying "WE MUST HAVE THIS DEAL!!!" Then when it's built, it's much less grand, and still requires a handout on the operating expenses, and doesn't deliver the spinoff everyone hoped. Been there, done that, got the tshirt

I am actually thinking this whole deal is a shell game. Pulling tenants from one building to put them in another, with little actual "ADD" to the city other than a new addition to the skyline.

Hard to say, I had it done as soon as I bought the house because I looked in the attic and it was essentially bare, tops of the joists were visible, maybe 4" of insulation up there. I will say, after adding a ton of insulation, new sealing of all wall gaps & ceiling penetrations and sealing the garage from the inner house wall and new windows, my energy bills are pretty low. We keep the house comfortable and our gas bill is barely $120 in peak of winter. Looking strictly at payback, it's probably not a good deal, but I plan on being here a while. It's definitely quieter. Air conditioning is more expensive but that's because prior home owners didn't plant any trees and the house has zero shade

If you work with your natural gas provider, mine was Dominion, they charge $75 to do an entire house energy audit. That amount is applied to any upgrades. They look at attic insulation, all duct sealing, HVAC & hot water heater, windows, doors, exhaust fans, etc. My house was built in early 90's and barely had any insulation in the attic also. House was also not insulated at all from the garage walls. Made a lot of improvements.

Do you really think these public meetings are anything but an exercise in futility? Like all these low-information residents are going to affect the status of this project financing?

Reason(s)? Huge gap in cost vs value as already discussed a few weeks ago in this thread

My source is telling me this project is not happening.

Phase 3 is going to be either more apartments or more office. The apartments have not been a huge success from many I've talked to. I think it was the right idea to include the product in the development but I've heard about many issues with construction, noise, management, etc. I don't see them doing more apartments right away because of this. For office, they are going to wait until a major tenant comes calling. Too many other planned deals out there and the cost of new construction demands rents in the $30/sf, it will take long time to fill even a 5-6 story building.

Exactly. I'd be interested to see the value & scale of the project with the hotel removed. Of course the height is better with it included but at this point, it just needs to go forward

The retail & hotel component are dragging the value down. The apartments & condos are better value

surprising how vast the difference is between cost to build/develop and the actual appraised value of the project

Hopefully they announce a selection for the real estate services partner/tenant rep firm. After that, a real evaluation of the building options will begin.

drilling rig on site now at the little vacant parcel across from Flannery's/Hairy Buffalo.

I think there will be outliers who will ride a bike no matter what the conditions. That's not the point. The point is infrastructure investment directed to bicycling. And any sort of investment is based on a certain amount of users. In saying no matter what the investment, the overall number of users will be lower in Cleveland over other cities because of higher snowfall and more extreme cold temps than cities like Pittsburgh

Bike paths are great but it will never catch on fully in Cleveland the way it has in other cities. We average 61" of snow per year. When you get an above average year, it makes biking impossible for months at a time. Pittsburgh averages 27" of snow per year, less than half. We have these great things called snow plows. Also, people over estimate how much weather negatively impacts bike riding. "For months at a time" is a gross exaggeration. I lived in Cleveland for years & used to bike everywhere. When it snows a lot, the snow gets pushed into the sidewalk or big mounds at intersections to clear parking. It makes biking impassable. If it stays cold for a long time, the snow doesn't melt and the city doesn't haul it away. It stays like that for months at a time. I think 2009 we had a big snow, it was miserable from Jan-March. And then about 2012-2013, we had a snap where it didn't get above freezing for at least a month. Not a lot of biking then.

Bike paths are great but it will never catch on fully in Cleveland the way it has in other cities. We average 61" of snow per year. When you get an above average year, it makes biking impossible for months at a time. Pittsburgh averages 27" of snow per year, less than half.

The city is open to any & all options apparently but realistically, I don't think they have the time to do a new building, even if a lot was available somewhere that worked. That leaves renovation of existing buildings - it's going to be tough to find a building that 1) has the space available 2) can accomodate all the requirements for lobby/security/parking etc. There will some aggressive moves made though by a handful of players to lure this deal to their property. City looking to sign a 20 yr deal. I believe the RFP is up on the City website if anyone wants to view it. Lays out all the requirements http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/node/10854

City accepted building submissions today for relocation of their Police/Safety from Justice Center to another location, preferably downtown business district. 180k sf. This will be making major waves here soon enough.

I think the goal is much more office, lab, research, HQ type site. They don't want to draw retail from downtown. Imagine a tenant like Sherwin Williams R&D from downtown or similar tenants with a mix of Class A office. It's a perfect setting for a corporate HQ and possibly some mixed tenant buildings as well.