gottaplan

Channel 5 news segment last night on the Shoreway Building project & other Battery Park developments http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsnet5.com%2Fnews%2Flocal-news%2Foh-cuyahoga%2Fshoreway-lofts-being-built-in-former-globe-machine-stamping-co-building&h=bAQGFSvih

the Pro-Issue 7 folks have resorted to scare tactics. Just saw a tv commercial that said if the issue doesn't pass, they'll have to cut vital services (cut to clip of police & fire rescuing old person) This issue must be polling closer than expected.

this. x1000

The project is slightly ahead of schedule despite the brutal winter & some utility relocations that took longer than expected. I think the railroad track relocation is next. Some big developments related to getting the east/west connection back between these areas now that Caruso will dead end at 70th. Should be an announcement soon about extending Frascati through from Battery Park over to 70th.

I would sign that ballot initiative as a Cleveland resident

I had a discussion with a coworker about home ownership. We discussed doing a 15 yr loan vs 30 yr. He is a very successful guy who makes a lot & could probably pay cash for his home but has a 30 yr loan so he can invest the majority of his money rather than pay down the debt. Higher return on his money that way he says.

And why does the "white community" allow these things to happen? Who said they are allowing it? Plenty of innocent bystanders coming forward, identifying the guilty, giving statements to police. More than what typically happens when some violent assault/shooting happens in a black community. And you know this, man

I've been to "Now That's Class" a dozen times probably. Never struck me as an unsafe place or somewhere for people to congregate looking to do bad stuff. Seemed like a casual dive bar/hipster hangout where people smoked some bud out back & drank cheap beers & listened to half-assed bands

Look at the Flats East Bank. How many years has it taken to get it to where it stands currently? Open real estate does not make demand. You can't build it and they will come....if that's true downtown Cleveland, and Cleveland in general, as ACRES of available real estate. Not in large parcels, right in downtown business district. Good analogy on the Flats East Bank. To be fair, they were ready to roll back in 2008 and got lambasted by the recession. Had to go back to square 1 which cost them 3 years.

so the last phase of 8 Parkview townhomes are getting ready to close next week. 2 units closing next week then units closing about each week following through May. Deck railings, exterior trim & then landscaping yet to be done in the next 2-3 weeks. I think 1 unit still left to sell in this building. The next building is under construction on the lot beside Reddstone. I think 7 units total, 1 or 2 units still available. Foundation & concrete slab is done, walls starting to go up already. Not sure about completion. Next planned building is going to go on the little sliver of land between 73rd & 74th, near Goodwalt. This was not owned by the Battery Park developer, but they recently purchased it and are moving ahead with plans. Keller Williams has renderings & square footages of the units for this lot. Supposed to break ground some time mid to late summer depending on pre-sales. After all that, I'm hearing the next planned units will be on the east side of where the volleyball courts currently are. Currently being used as staging area for construction. Volleyball nets are up now for the final spring session of the Hermes league. After the spring session is done, the courts will be ripped out and a park will be permanently put in with green space, featuring the Kilbane statue.

^so by that logic, the stadiums are the lowest common denominator for economic development, and the best bang for the buck? Look at the real estate that is occupied by the Gateway stadiums & associated parking structures. Massive. Total game changer in attracting a major corporate headquarters to downtown Cleveland. Look at the real estate that is occupied by Browns stadium on the lakefront. Look at the recent RFP for mixed use development ringing the stadium & think what could actually be done on that property if the stadium and it's 10 days of use per year weren't such an obstacle. Again, a huge blank slate with infinite opportunity

There is a wealth of studies by non biased academics on the topic of economic impact of stadiums. Cleveland State's own Michael Spicer, PhD has written articles and advised on the topic. Here's an interesting piece, contains other articles as well: http://www.minnpost.com/community-voices/2011/02/dumb-and-dumber-folly-taxpayer-handouts-professional-sports Same conclusion: a bad investment Literally hundreds of other studies and books — by individuals such as long-time sports economists Arthur T. Johnson in "Minor League Baseball and Economic Development" (1995), Mark Rosentraub in "Major League Losers" (1997), Kenneth Shropshire in "The Sports Franchise Game" (1995), Roger Noll and Andrew Zimbalist in "Sports, Jobs, and Taxes" (1997), and Michael N. Danielson in "Home Team" (1997) — reach the same conclusion: Public support of professional and minor league sports is a bad investment. In practically none of the cities these studies examined did new sports stadiums lead to any significant new private investment or provide for any significant economic benefits to the local economy besides the jobs generated by the initial capital construction of the stadiums. More important, the new stadiums generally were not even profitable or self-financing. Nor could cities point to rising land prices or economic development in the surrounding community. Even as tourist attractions, the stadiums either simply transferred sales from somewhere else or failed to demonstrate that the local hotels were filled as a result of the sports events. Finally, in terms of the much-ballyhooed job production, outside of initial construction and the salaries for the players themselves, part-time, seasonal, and no-benefit beer and peanut sales jobs were the fare for what the billions of public dollars produced. I think any study that does not take into account the ripple effects of economic impact on hotels and restaurants is fundamentally flawed. I have worked in bars and restaurants near stadia, and game days (even football) was a significant percentage of annual revene. However, the same can be said that one project is responsible for all economic activity (think Healthline). Again, if someone knows of a study where the author went in without a conclusion and did a dospationate review of revenue, I would love to read it (I'm a data nerd) So maybe the bars & restaurants that see a boost on game days but are dead every other day (think Thirsty Parrot or Clevelander or Bob Golics) get repurposed as something else, or gain steady every day business from the development that goes in place of the stadiums and provides steady traffic every day of the year. I can't see how that doesn't end up as a net gain.

There is a wealth of studies by non biased academics on the topic of economic impact of stadiums. Cleveland State's own Michael Spicer, PhD has written articles and advised on the topic. Here's an interesting piece, contains other articles as well: http://www.minnpost.com/community-voices/2011/02/dumb-and-dumber-folly-taxpayer-handouts-professional-sports Same conclusion: a bad investment Literally hundreds of other studies and books — by individuals such as long-time sports economists Arthur T. Johnson in "Minor League Baseball and Economic Development" (1995), Mark Rosentraub in "Major League Losers" (1997), Kenneth Shropshire in "The Sports Franchise Game" (1995), Roger Noll and Andrew Zimbalist in "Sports, Jobs, and Taxes" (1997), and Michael N. Danielson in "Home Team" (1997) — reach the same conclusion: Public support of professional and minor league sports is a bad investment. In practically none of the cities these studies examined did new sports stadiums lead to any significant new private investment or provide for any significant economic benefits to the local economy besides the jobs generated by the initial capital construction of the stadiums. More important, the new stadiums generally were not even profitable or self-financing. Nor could cities point to rising land prices or economic development in the surrounding community. Even as tourist attractions, the stadiums either simply transferred sales from somewhere else or failed to demonstrate that the local hotels were filled as a result of the sports events. Finally, in terms of the much-ballyhooed job production, outside of initial construction and the salaries for the players themselves, part-time, seasonal, and no-benefit beer and peanut sales jobs were the fare for what the billions of public dollars produced.

Build the buildings on the land the city owns already. Own the buildings as well, same way we do with the stadiums. Offer tax incentives to lure corporate headquarters to sign long term leases. It's not that unheard of. The city owns parking garages. County Commissioners bought a couple buildings.

Take the same land, tax incentives & subsidies applied to the stadiums and build an office park at Gateway where the arenas are or mixed use development where Browns stadium is. Think about the long term jobs created, the income & real estate taxes generated... Think about attracting major corporations back to the city like Progressive Insurance or American Greetings or Eaton. Think about the spinoff development that would be created by the job centers of these developments.... the restaurants, shopping, apartments... so much more than what is generated by these stadiums that aren't even used half the year

how about the may company building along Prospect or Ontario. I know they are parcelling off storefronts now for pretty cheap. Great exposure that will only get better

can't believe how dusty this project has become. I know things take time to develop but this has gone from the back burner to off-the-stove completely it seems

At the very least, this sin tax vote should generate a full disclosure of the accounting of these fees, expenses, & who's responsible for what. The more that comes out about rents & expenses, the worse this deal looks for the city

Yup got the same email, tried unsubscribing & got the same. If they didn't add everyone's names from the e-ticket list, my second guess was the local CDC gave them my email...?

Exactly. The whole idea that we have to defeat the sin tax before we discuss alternatives smells like "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it". If people were serious about changing things, this conversation should have started long ago. The costs were never going away. The alternative is simple. Renegotiate the leases so the city pays less for maintenance and/or charges more in rent

Yeah except there is PLENTY of available real estate within a high fly ball or a long field goal of either stadium. What needs to happen is that some of this money goes into a general economic development fund (think the Convention Center hotel) rather than directly into sports owners pockets. Yes! This is about ROI. We need to use our limited funds in the way that best aids growth and population stabilization. Stadium funding has been consistently shown to be a poor return on investment for public money. I disagree to a point. They needed to be built. What I have a problem with is a billionaire owner like Dan Gilbert giving the county an invoice rather than a rent check at the end of the year. Who signed these deals where the owners don't even have to supply their own light bulbs, etc? They are in federal prison now? So it's time to renegotiate the rent deals. And hire someone with expertise in these matters. Politicians make horrible negotiators, especially when they are starry-eyed gazing at pro athletes.... I don't think they needed to be built. I wouldn't be all that upset if any of those teams went away. Plenty of other cities doing just fine without pro baseball/basketball/football. Austin & Columbus come to mind. D1 College sports can be just as big of a draw for sports fans....

Obviously many talking points coming out now that indicate what a bad deal this is for the tax payers. The graphic on stadium rents above is apalling. I'd like to see more data that ties stadium incomes (ticket prices, attendance, parking, concessions, etc) and rent together. The other conclusion I keep coming back to is how much real revenue could be created if the City took the same real estate the stadiums are on and built office parks with high rises & garages, and used the subsidies they allot for stadium maintenance to attracting major tenants. Think of the high paying jobs that could be lured to the area in terms of businesses like law, accounting, technology, marketing.... thousands of people would live here, buy homes, raise families. Instead we have a few dozen sports players who rent mostly and pay taxes where they claim residence elsewhere

^Playhouse Square is so red hot right now... whatever space you can find is overpriced. Lots of good local brokerage firms to work with. PM me to get some info on local tenant reps who can advise you on rents & locations for what you're needs are

You should look in Detroit Shoreway for space, otherwise many spaces on West 6th are wide open for what you're looking for, at reasonable rents

The only thing that would jump start the project is Coral announcing a major tenant signing on for office space leasing