gottaplan

Detroit casino revenues are holding strong despite the economoy also. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20100415/FREE/100419933#

Great info at the Streetscape download, this project looks fantastic. I especially like the roundabout at Lake/West Blvd. The new streetscape is going to do wonders for the the retail in the area. Only potential downside I can think of would be for home owners that will have to go in a predetermined direction, then make a u-turn if their destination was opposite.

Actually the casinos are generating $50-$60 million a year in taxes for the city. Every cent is needed right now.

My wife called the ticket office 2 weeks ago to inquire about some season ticket packages and she said they were offering 2 for 1 deals on the seats. Desperate times. If they can't start winning some games, compete in the division, and generate some buzz, the season will be over by July. Especially if the Cavs win the NBA finals, Cleveland sports fans will be talking about that till July... come August it'll be all about Browns preseason hype & speculation...

Not trying to minimize this argument, but wherever the casino is built, whatever is paid for the property, is miniscule in the big picture of the operation. This place will be a giant cash cow when it opens, and arguing over whether to pay $5 mill or $50 mill for the site is almost irrelevant when you take into consideration how much cash this site will make on a daily basis. I would predict the Cleveland casino will bring in more money than all the others in the state. A friend of mine works for the city operations in Detroit and told me MGM brings in over $1 million per day, double that on busy weekends. Of course they have operating expenses, salaries, taxes to pay, etc but that is alot of cash in a city with TWO other casinos and Windsor just across the bridge. My point is that any sticking point on purchase price of the land should be very short lived. I'm sure the casino operators know how much they stand to gain by opening earlier rather than later. When you consider the amount of possible daily revenue the Cleveland casino should bring in, the amount of revenue lost by waiting till 2013 instead of 2012 is staggering.

Name them. I would like to answer my own question if you don't mind. Public Auditorium. I know they've talked about using the Higbee building, but I sure would love to see Gilbert invest some money to upgrade Public Auditorium and use that as a temporary casino. Kill two birds with one $20 million stone. I think you have a different image in mind then I do for what that temporary casino space could be, but I am familiar with what Detroit did with theirs: Greektown went into the old Trappers Alley space which was similar to any of the spaces along E. 4th, only much less developed back then. Motor City went into a vacant bread factory. MGM opened up in an what I believe was a vacant office space. I think we have plenty of vacant storefronts, warehouses, and office spaces in downtown Cleveland that could fit the bill. Take a walk down Euclid Avenue from Public Square and see how many spaces you find before you get to CSU/Playhouse Square. Then try the same along Prospect, Chester, Superior & St Clair. How about space in Tyler Village? How about the vacant/underutilized buildings on Old River Road on East Bank of the Flats? How about the building at W.9th & St. Clair? Would tie in nicely with existing Warehouse district traffic. How about the vacant multi-story warehouse at the corner of E. 26th & Superior? That could be a great location right along the highway, plenty of exposure. What about a location along W.25th between Detroit & Lorain? Could easily run shuttles back & forth to downtown hotels....

sfbob - I guess I shouldn't say the issue was "crammed down voters throats" but the casino issue was put to a vote in Ohio 3 times before and voted down each time. I think most would agree that it wouldn't have passed this last time either if the economy hadn't been struggling. I know alot of friends & family that were against the issue on every other occasion that finally voted for it because they felt the economy needed a jolt of any kind. The biggest selling point of all those ads was jobs jobs jobs. The point of my post was to say that the economy will be back on it's feet & rolling by the time any jobs are created by these casinos. It just seems very ironic. I'm not voting for a pole barn at all either, but there are a dozen suitable spaces within 10 blocks of public square that could house a temporary casino. I also know that when Detroit decided to open up 3 casinos downtown, they had them open & operating in their temporary locations within a year... Get the casino open, get the tax revenue flowing, and continue discussions on location & design of permanent facilities. ogibbigo - what exactly is in this casino legislation and why must it wait till early June, so long after the original measure was passed approving the new casinos? All I'm saying is that if this is the wonderful economic engine it was touted to be for creating casino jobs, construction, and stopping the flow of money to out of state casinos, why hasn't there been more progress? I'm sure there is alot of redtape to sort out but that isn't being communicated to the public at all.

I'm all for seeing this go forward for the benefit of the city, but it still makes me want to puke when I think back to Gilbert's comment last year when someone asked him when construction would actually begin. His response "we can start breaking ground the next day!" was classic bullshit and most people probably bought it. We now know they don't have a site selected in Cleveland, still arguing about a site in Columbus, and ground probably won't be broken by this fall, 1 year after the measure passed. So my enthusiasm for these casinos quickly fades when you consider it was crammed down voters throats as a tool for creating jobs in a down economy. By the time the damned things are actually built, the economy could be racing along again. Why aren't they talking about opening up in a temporary space, like they did in Detroit, until the new permanent sites were built? At least then we could capture the revenue leaving to gamble at other states, create casino jobs, and bring more visitors downtown...

Parking can end up being a deal breaker, regardless of the other numbers. I drive everywhere now because I can and it's relatively cheap & easy as I live & work in Cleveland, but I don't pay to park. I lived in Chicago, lived & worked downtown and it was a real pain to drive because there was usually no place to park that wasn't $20. That adds up. Parking is relatively cheap here in Cleveland, even downtown. Anywhere outside of downtown, parking is pretty much free.

Pics in reply #16 look like the area near Wayne State campus, am I correct? Alot of great old 3 & 4 story brick apartment buildings near there, has remained stable. I was in the market to buy a place back in 2007 when I was living in Detroit. Was looking at the renovated Willy's loft building south of Wayne State. There was a cool little micro brewery coming along over there and a few other new ventures and it seemed to be coming together.

^^you understand this or you know this? Is Vintage letting them out of the deal and returning the deposit? A crack in the slab should really not be a deal breaker. Especially not in the foyer where people would likely put tile, plenty of anti-fracture products to bridge the crack. http://www.polyguardproducts.com/products/architectural/tilefloors.htm

Book Tower & Broderick Tower have been "supposedly being rehabbed" for the last 5 years, and that was when the economy and lending markets were much more favorable. I worked & lived downtown Detroit for 3 years and even worked on some concepts for the Broderick Tower and it's just not likely to be done. Not trying to sound all negative, but give the current conditions, these two projects aren't so likely. The Broderick has no room for any parking if it were to be residential apts or condos. Book Tower is an architectural masterpiece but the fire escapes on the exterior would need to go. Cutting in another set of stairs or elevator would really reduce the floorspace in the skinny tower. Trying to renovate either building for residential just doesn't make sense either since there is already so much vacant commercial office space that doesn't need anything but a tenant. The Riverwalk & Dequindre cut are 2 projects that the DEGC has actually done right instead of senseless demolition in the name of making areas "development ready". Capitol Park will be a welcome upgrade to the area directly behind the Book Cadillac Westin. Detroit is an amazing city and I'd love to see it progress but they have such an uphill battle in terms of reversing the crime, schools, environmental cleanup, rebuilding infrastructure, creating more transit options...

I work around the corner in another Greystone property at E49th & Lakeside, the Cleveland Twist Drill building. I've been meaning to check out the Tyler Village complex and now that they have a little cafe open, that's a perfect reason to check it out

I disagree. I think in CLEVELAND, and not in the suburbs, there are a ton of great little neighborhood bars where you can feel comfortable having a few drinks, making conversation with strangers, etc. Skip the downtown bars where women go & expect to be hit on, and skip the suburb chain type pubs where everyone knows each other. Even better, get involved! I joined my block club, met some great people that way. Get to know your neighbors, host parties. I'm doing Corporate Challenge, fantastic way to meet interesting singles in the city. Join a sport team on Hermes. Join a gym, join a golf league in the summer, join a bowling league in the winter. Round up some coworkers for drinks after work. Talk to people! Whatever you do, be funny, be confident but not cocky, be humble, but interesting. Above all, be happy with yourself. I see alot of folks on here saying they have been kicked around by life. So what, it makes for great stories and you lived through it! Nobody wants to hear about all your crazy ex's, but if it makes you a more well rounded person, than play that angle. You don't have to look like Brad Pitt/Jennifer Anniston to score a date in Cleveland. I think it's a great place to date. There are alot of folks doing the online dating thing and it does work for some/many. I think it's also terribly superficial when you can scan hundreds of profiles, sorted by age/income/body type or whatever. It's also very easy to reject folks on there before you even get to know them. I am a much bigger fan of meeting people live in person, having a drink, making conversation and seeing what happens.

BDRUF - are you looking to do this project to live in or to rent out? If it's a place you were looking to stay for 5+ years I think would have a different financial analysis instead of a place you plan to rent out....

Great feedback, thank you everyone for sharing. Exactly what I was looking for. I'm going to scour the neighborhood a bit this weekend and also see what the DSCDO has to offer as well.

yeah, we walked through the area last weekend and there was definitely alot of trash blown into the rocks by the waters edge in need of picking up

I worked in downtown Detroit and took masters classes there for my urban planning degree. Definitely some shining areas in Detroit including Palmer Woods & Indian Village but even those are getting rough around the edges. My wife & I used to drive through Palmer Woods all the time and admire the beautiful homes. Then we started to see some with tarps on the roofs, garages crumbling, overgrown bushes & lawns, paint peeling... Indian Village is the same. Certainly aint what it used to be. Some good points in the article though, mainly just how HUGE Detroit is, and also how much wealth is still in the metro area. I think some of the suburbs like Grosse Pointe & Birmingham & even parts of Dearborn are some of the nicest areas I've ever been.

I know it's complicated. I'll probably meet with a bank in a few weeks, but I know a home is in foreclosure in my neighborhood which led me to browse the sheriff's auction listings. I don't think I want to spend more than $50k, and would put down about $10k. That leaves a small amount to finance over maybe 10 yrs. Also keeps the payments way down low so it wouldnt' be too much of a burden if there was a large lapse getting a renter, and also leaves enough cash flow to make improvements down the line.

Yes. 3 sold in the "Skyline" building on 74th, 2 sold in the "H3" building on Battery Park Blvd, and 1 of the free standing homes sold on 76th

Looking around the near West side - perhaps Tremont, Detroit Shoreway, Ohio City areas. Probably fix it up and keep it as a rental. Of course I would be better off buying a place in the suburbs due to the schools but there are solid homes in decent neighborhoods literally in move in condition selling for $30k & less. Anyone have any experience with this? I'm not intimidated by fixer uppers either as I do construction for a living and have friends in every trade that owe me favors. I'm more interested in learning about how to obtain a small bank loan, how the bank would handle the process without even knowing what the address or condition of the house is, until I've technically already purchased it? I see also that Cuyahoga Co requires a bank check at time of purchase from successful bidder of up to $10k.

Crane out in front of the Powerhouse today setting rooftop AC units. Build out continues. 6 units of the new construction are sold as of 2 weeks ago

That's got to be throwing a wrench into a number of plans down there. Ernst & Young was supposed to relocate into this new space by .....? How many other tenants can possibly fill the void they'll be leaving from their existing lease? Parking agreements, adjacent businesses like food and entertainment that was waiting on this to come about... It's nearly summer of 2010 and nothing yet. This project is probably 4-5 years from being a functioning space.

Is this thing dead again? Seems like last fall there was news on foundation packages being prepared and Const Mgt companies submitting bids for scopes of work, now nothing???

Most state park beaches close around dusk. Edgewater too. Not that I've ever seen any late night patrols enforcing this...