clvlndr

We look forward to riding the Rapid to TC and CIFF. Hopefully downtowners & West Siders will hop the Blue/Green Lines to films showing at the Shaker Square Cinemas. CIFF has really been playing up the Rapid in recent years... Remember a few years ago when tone-deaf RTA decided to shut down the Blue & Green Lines for their annual track-work during the CIFF forcing festival goers to ride shuttle buses to Public Square? (I was among the fuming throngs). Let's hope RTA learned its lesson and never allows such a ham-handed/cold-hearted conflict in the future. The film festivals gotten too big and grown too transit dependent for this to (logically) ever happen again.

Absolutely. The Detroit and Madison shuttles should extend all the way to the W. Blvd and W. 117 Rapid stations, respectively. The current routing not only ignores the Rapid and the Gold Coast, but misses entertainment areas along Detroit just inside Cleveland, W. 117 & Clifton, as well as the clubs east along Clifton all the way to Don's Lghthouse at Clifton/Lake. I understand this being a Lakewood-oriented service, but if the owners truly want to encourage car-free restaurant/bar hopping to the extent everybody wins, you'd hope they wouldn't be provincial with service limited to within Lakewood's borders (eww Cleveland!) - and then, within certain boundaries inside Lakewood on top of that.

I hear you, but remember, Cleveland rejected Dual Hub in the late 1990s, when we had a Democrat in the WH (a Lewinsky-ed Dem, but a Dem nonetheless). ... Then we ran our more progressive transit chief out of town, as I understand, largely b/c of his 'extravagance' in pushing Dual Hub and we got, actually sought out,. Joe C ... A horrible trade imho, but whatareugonnado? … Point being: this episode is more reflective of Cleveland's political will towards transit (or more correctly, lack thereof) rather than the ability/non-ability to receive federal matching funds. Don't be over dramatic. You and I know that is hearsay. Why is this all on Clevelands Lap? The county and region also need to be better educated on the uses of public transportation. Actually that's not hearsay. Ron Tober left Cleveland when his Dual Hub was shot down as well as other rail expansion proposals, including commuter rail, were "shelved". It's been reported on this board that he was seen as extravagant. He went to Charlotte and opened their first LRT which is expanding. Cleveland, instead, brought in Joe Calabrese, who is anti-rail and pro-bus (BRT that is). Look, I know you're a big Joe C. defender and you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

Interesting. Too bad that wasn't investigated. It may have dwarfed Jimmy DiMora, esp. given the extreme negative impact it had on downtown... Playhouse Sq. has survived and is growing nicely. But I sometime think of how bustling it would have been, with mid/high rise apts and retail, had there been a subway stop under it.

^Once again, the politics favoring the few kills a major benefit for the many. Such is pure capitalism here in America. One note: Rochester's heavy 3-wire catenary, insulators and lattice-type catenary support bridges, echo what exists on portions of Cleveland's close-in ROW developed by Van Swerningen interests.

^Wow, what a nice system and what a shame it went to waste. It just shows what some cities could, and did, do to develop a full-scale rapid transit system ... even as small as Rochester. The fact this used and drained an unused canal reminds me of Cincinnati’s failed project, although unlike Cincy, Rochester actually saw their subway to term ... only to throw away just 3 decades later ... by Republicans, if memory serves from an article I once read. And also like Cincy, the powers that be built a freeway on top of part of the ROW. Damn shame…

^That sounds like a good idea, but what route would the bus take from Collinwood down to UC/Cleve Clinic?

I agree, some kind of RTA rail footage should be used. There are truly majestic vistas of Red Line trains on the long viaduct over the Cuyahoga River and the Flats, yet you never see this in any of promotional videos.

The BRT option is assumed to be an extension of the HealthLine, with buses running from Public Square to East 260th/Lakeshore near the Lake County line. As has been noted by many UO/HL riders, the Health Line is struggling with overcrowding, bus bunching and slow speeds with the current 7-mile system that runs through sparsely populated Midtown. How does RTA think that extending it to the County Line is going to offer any kind of improvement over current buses? Clearly rail transit, in whatever form, is the only serious alternative worth investing in. If RTA is looking for a non-rail alternative (and you know they are), they might as well simply extend the current #28 bus westward from the Windermere terminal to Cleve. Clinic. The fact that BRT is even on the table smells like an elaborate ruse.

^^It's a worthwhile study, but in some cases the numbers are skewed based on parking passengers. Brookpark, for example, probably has one of the lowest number of worker who live within 2 miles of the station, yet it is IIRC the 2nd busiest station outside Tower City. There are a lot of riders who travel in via the 2 interstates there and come from a great distance. Puritas is similar in this sense as is Green Road on the LRT.

Jerry, I'm glad to see the new station going in @ E.116. Is there any initiative at RTA to step up TOD efforts generally, and particularly near E.116? We know that immediately adjacent to the station is a TOD disaster, but there is potential in the neighborhood, esp toward Buckeye-E.116 corner.

^E Rocc I totally disagree. I don’t really agree that cities even choose to sprawl but, rather, they just accept it as inevitable. But sprawl absolutely is NOT the result of planning. Sprawl is the result of a city’s failure to plan.

Sometimes change can happen on the fly. It's interesting that Shaker Square as we know it today, which I believe at one time was in Shaker Heights, was an afterthought. The Van Sweringens originally banned apartment buildings in Shaker, and the Square was an empty circle with a junction for the Shaker and Moreland (now Van Aken) Rapid lines ... KJP has posted photos of this. Then somebody in their organization got the bright idea to develop an apartment district there, and by 1923 the 1st section of the grand Moreland Courts (aka MyTwoSense manor) was built... It's also interesting to note that the Vans themselves suddenly leaped into the apartment development business with Moreland Courts, the Castle, the Manor, Sedgwick, the Gables and many of the other high-quality, architecture apartment buildings clustered around the Square, South Woodland, Drexmore and Van Aken near Lee Rd. Maybe the Vans are a bad example because they seemed to fly by the seat of their pants when it came to empire building... But they do show that even in the short period of time in the conception of Shaker Heights, development tastes shifted from building a strictly commuter-style bedroom community with substantial-to-mansion single-family detached homes to incorporating a substantial apartment district with all the urban features we associate with ideal transit + TOD today. The important point to E Rocc is that urban sprawl is never a desirable or chosen community aspect, but that it stems from the absence of planning and haphazard growth as opposed to any sort of planned development. And whether Shaker Heights, and the Square, are viewed from a detached single-family housing or high-grade apartment POV, there’s little debate as to Shaker’s high quality of living and compactness (see non-sprawl) that have been directly and indirectly influenced by the presence of desirable (rail) mass transit.

^But you do know, E Rocc, that the Supreme Court held a few years ago (in Kelo vs. New London, CT) that private property may be seized through ED for another private owner, so long as the second owner's use is deemed more favorable for the public good in terms of local economic development. However, I hate this decision because it opens up a Pandora's Box even though it is a tool. I would NOT want to use this for the East Bank buildings. I would prefer Samsel be turned into mixed use apartments-over-retail/restaurants and would hope they could be convinced to sell, but there's actually nothing wrong with Samsel's use as it is. It's a responsible business and, as far as I know, Samsel's an honorable public citizen. Their building isn't blighted. So the City has no biz EDing it away from them... The parking lot at Public Square, however is an entirely different animal all together in which case, I think ED is a viable and should be strongly considered.

HL-related equipment's no Blue-Light special stuff, either.

I think they meant the Blue and Green Lines, but I won't quibble... Actually I'm glad to see this station, like it's cousin at Lee & Van Aken, will be upgraded. I hope it will be of the high quality of the planned Lee Rd. station. This Buckeye area neighborhood deserves it. It's just a shame that better TOD planning could have been engaged first (or maybe like ANY TOD planning). The piss-poor, low density structures built adjacent to the station are truly appalling. Even though this area has its share of run down structures it still has a ton of unrealized urban potential, particularly with the still intact, though somewhat tattered, commercial strip at/to the east of Buckeye & E.116.

You've got that right!

^The RTA situation may not be as bad as you think. A number of East Side and SE side buses have already been routed off the Square through/straight along Prospect to Superior-W. 6th. Forcing these buses to loop around downtown, to some degree and serve such areas as the Warehouse Dist can only aid rider distribution anyway... The Prospect connection to the Rapids is actually better for bus riders than hoping off along Ontario (once buses turn off Prospect heading north) through Public Square. It would appear that inbound West Side buses could similarly make the dogleg off Superior and onto either Prospect or Huron, where there's also an entrance to Tower City -- the problem with the latter is, as of now, I think the entrance closes once TC does at night. I believe only the Public Square and Prospect entrances remain open... ... As for buses coming from the N.E., planners will have to be more creative, but there are less of these than buses coming from the other areas of the County. Right now, PS's perimeter is mostly reserved for the HL and the trolleys. If the other regular routes are eliminated from the perimeter, I don't see the resulting totally (perimeter) roundabout PS traffic being impossible by any stretch... Hell, I actually think we've build downtown to be too driver friendly, and that's largely been why the Square remains as it does. Make drivers sweat a bit and get stuck in traffic down there. It can only serve to put more butts onto RTA, esp the Rapid in the long run, which is a good thing. (sorry E.Rocc)

It always seems to come down to the idea that certain quality urban projects in this town are "impossible" because of all the federal red tape (see: "because it's hard"). It's the reason why Burke remains open despite the choice high-rise residential and retail lakefront land it sits on. It's also why a stupid giant surface parking lot has sat adjacent to the same Public Square for going on 30 years... But some things are worth fighting for: in this case, a quality Public Square. If a federal process is required for rerouting the federal routes carried on Superior because of closing this main avenue, then why not engage the process? And if it's a roadblock (no pun intended), let's call our congress people, notably Marcia Fudge and Marcy Kaptur, if necessary -- I'm in. If we're talking about creating an enclosed, enjoyable walkable public park in the City's heart, what sense does it make to allow for it to be split in half by street traffic with tons of cars and noisy trucks rumbling through? Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose all this extreme time and money is being expended for? ... For once in this town with such a large-scale civic project we need to do it right, and not half do it (or if that's the case as I say, don't do it at all)... The Cleveland landscape is littered with half-done and scaled-down less effective/ineffective projects built either for political and/or economic expediency. ... rant completed.

^Just not enough height to block the sunlight from the homes of the Hessler folks, apparently.

I can't speak on the particulars of this building, such as its management – I’ve heard a few good things about Cleveland Lofts, but have had no direct information or info from close friends I can rely on. I can tell you that Merrill, like practically all the mix-use walkups in the immediate area, have been renovated at least in the last 15 or so years, so I’d seriously doubt it’s out-of-date. Safety-wise, I believe your location one of the safest areas of Cleveland proper. There are fringe areas that are a bit run down and, thus, the crime might be a tad higher and, interestingly, these areas are a couple blocks from then Merrell – but OC blight is slowly disappearing everywhere given the increased interest/demand for OC. Not to worry though, as I said, you're particular location on W. 25 at the corner of Market Ave appears very safe and, I know, is pretty well patrolled by the Cleveland police. There are some homeless in the area but they really are harmless but can annoy you, if that sort of thing bothers you (me? it does not). Also, Riverview Towers, the high-rise apt a couple blocks north and across W.25th from Merrill, is federally subsidized housing --- as in the "projects", though I understand it's geared to seniors... This is, after all, it's a City and you're going to get this. I think diversity is cool and I like the urban edge that lets you now you're not out in, say, Crocker Park (derisively known by some on UO as Cracker Park, ... if you catch the drift). Living in this area is no more dangerous than living in Greenwich Village in NYC (where sadly great actor Seymour Philip Hoffman recently died), or Lincoln Park Chicago or Queen Village, in Philly ... You apparently know how crazy it is on Saturdays (OC is THE Cleveland neighborhood at most times that day), but as for traffic other than Saturdays, it’s pretty busy along W.25. There are a somewhat annoying amount of heavy trucks (dump trucks, tractor trailers) at times, and because Lutheran Medical Hospital is a few blocks away, there are more emergency vehicles along your stretch … so be prepared for some noise, sometimes 24-7 (though with your windows closed, I can’t say how bothersome this will be inside. The Rapid Transit (2-3 min one-stop ride to Public Sq) is a block away and 8 or 9 RTA bus lines stop right at your door (including 3 (I think) 24-hour bus lines) – and recently, given Ohio City’s growing “hotness”, cab service in Ohio City has really picked up – yes, you could survive without a car at Merrell quite easily imho… so getting to/from your law firm or entertainment/restaurants downtown will be pretty much a breeze. IN fact OC people have told me, on some levels, owning a car is more hassle than it’s worth. BUT if you’ve got parking where you live and at the firm (comped or at least reasonable), then driving back n’ forth to your job should generally be a breeze, depending where your firm is located – I’m just saying that mass transit from OC to downtown is an excellent alternative. Hope this helps… good luck and welcome.

As far as the PS redesign proposal, ... I'm 50:50 on it. We absolutely must radically change what's there currently, and the proposal improves many of PS's current failings. My biggest criticism is Superior's still cutting through. As is too often the case in Cleveland's big urban projects, we go far but not far enough; were never all in and, in this case, we just can't let go of the past esp. with regard to our roadway/driving habits... It reminds me of the difficulty we're having with converting the West Shoreway into a boulevard... Yes, closing Superior will cause a massive reconfiguration of our transportation system, but creating a first class, front-door urban living room at Public Square is worth it. Make that thing into a large, Euro-type round-about. Philadelphia did it with William Penn's 1600’s design for central Phily – the whole city at the time -- which includes Center Square onto which the City, in 1890, plunked its gigantic Second Empire-style City Hall... No, obviously, Cleveland's Public Sq. is considerably different than Center Sq, esp since our City Hall is located elsewhere downtown, but I raise Philly only for the idea that it shows that massive amounts of street traffic (and in a city/metro area much larger than Cleveland) can be routed around a center square of a major city. Last I looked, Center City Philly is still functioning traffic-wise…. My other criticism of the design is there's too much plaza area, and not enough green (grass & trees) on the southern half. In the perfect world, the massive S&S Monument (which is an urban treasure) would not/should not be at the corner of a major square like PS, but that's how things developed over time, so we've got to figure a way best to integrate it into the plan... and I'm not sure this proposal does that.

^Those are good examples for PS... They look to be mostly the great urban square/parks of the old eastern cities, including Rittenhouse Square, in Philly, and the Common/Public Gardens in Baastin.

Great stuff, Murray!! Forget the silly "Hastily Made Video..." of a few years ago which only, as usual, pokes fun at the City... THIS video more closely represents what Cleveland's all about. Regular people. Some good (and bad) dancing; great music.

^DM4, I hope now that the Waterfront Line is running during the day every 15 mins, that this will alleviate the pressure on Tower City somewhat. I think RTA should experiment with running through trains from the WFL that don't stop at Tower City. If revelers from the Shaker-Blue/Green Line would walk over to W. 3rd or go down in the Flats, it could make a big difference.