clvlndr

But per the court order, they only have 8 days to begin rehab or tear it down. L&R says it would be impossible to line up tenants for a new building that quickly while, at the same time, they haven't asked the judge for an extension. I didn't see that the order is forcing L&R to sell, and I doubt they would given how valuable this land could be for them.

Oh OK, you've edumacated me... I've never riden the beyond-Cuyahoga county systems. Good to know.

Yeah, I know ... RTA's fare collecting system is bizarre, to say the least... One thing that you must understand that should make life easier is RTA's philosophy: there are NO transfers; they were eliminated years ago. Instead, the single ride fare RTA quotes ($2.25 IIRC), is for just that - 1 single ride. In order to make multiple trips you can do one of a couple things: 1) pay single ride fares for each vehicle and each line you ride on: including when transferring from Red to Blue or Green, and vice versa, 2) buy a strip of 10 (I believe) single ride fare cards ... or 3), which is what I do, get an unlimited ride pass (daily, weekly or monthly). Since I'm in and out of town, and ride RTA sporadically, I always get a $5.00 day pass which, I think, is good till 3a the next morning. $5.00 for a day pass is quite reasonable as big city transit fares goes and makes life much easier. You may want to try that next time you head to Shaker Square, or elsewhere.... But remember, when it comes to paper transfers, either free or fee based, fugedaboudit, they don’t exist in RTAworld. I even get the Day pass even when I pretty much know I'm only making 2 trips (1 in, 1 out) and I'll lose .50... No big deal because I prefer the flexibility and there's always that chance I may want to make more than the 2 trips.

... moving right along.

Sweet.

Ever hear of the philosopher George Santayana, biker16? He once said,"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." If you're incapable of recognizing that the same themes that led to the demise of transit expansion in the past, keep repeating themselves in this town over and over and over again, I really can't help you. Some of these themes include: petty within-region "us against them" squabbles, race/class divisions, a pro-auto agenda, a cheap penny ante approach towards transit (which was often fueled by the aforementioned race/class, city/suburb divisions), poor planning and the inability, as one local scribe put it, "To see past yesterday," etc., etc. I guess that depends on whose brain you're using. What really defines "light rail" biker? Both St. Louis and LA use what's purported to be light rail, but fully operate from high platforms ... like the Red Line. Are they really heavy rail? Are they really light rail but their high platforms make their systems less desirable because of it? Shucks, Biker, there goes that history thing again... Fact is, the Vans planned the Shaker system as what some, mainly Europeans, call a "pre metro", meaning eventually, the Shaker lines were designed to have raised platforms to correspond to a planned county-wide high platform system: one the Van Sweringens started (with the East Cleveland portion of today's Red Line) but never got to complete because the Depression wrecked their empire and led to their premature deaths in the mid-30s. You might want to check out "Invisiible Giants: The Empires of Cleveland's Van Sweringen Brothers," by Herbert H. Harwood, Jr, a historian whose dad worked with the Vans. Change for change sake isn't growth, biker... And btw, please explain how these moves will result in "growth?" How, in this town when it has been reported elsewhere in this website that RTA's proposal to extend the Red Line to the NE is really just a stalking horse (or Trojan Horse) just to expand RTA's beloved BRT... How, biker, when it's even been reported on UO that RTA is quietly doubting the LRT/Blue Line expansion across Warrensville & Chagrin, ... a whopping .3 miles! ... If collectively, we're incapable of expanding light rail .3 miles, what makes you think your downgrading the Red Line just to make it "uniform" so you can see your pretty little trams all over the place, will lead to ... "growth?" Biker, just a few miles from the Blue Line terminus in the late 1970s, the newly minted RTA was incapable of extending the Green line a measly 1.5 miles over a pre-made path the Vans built -- equipped with ROW, road overpasses and even some trolley support poles for .5 miles into Beachwood... A former Cleveland planning director, Norm Krumholz, shouted the expansion down saying it was extravagant and would serve rich "fat cats" at the expense of the poor, so RTA quietly punked out -- NOTE: Krumholz, who thankfully is still living and even still teaching at CSU, is not a bad guy; a political lefty who I'm generally politically in simpatico with; he just got it dead wrong on the Green Line thing; he's a rare anti-rail lefty -- oh well ... Oops, sorry biker, there I go with that history stuff again. I forgot, in your world, history is totally irrelevant.... forget I even mentioned it...

It's not great -- still virtually a trickle most times -- but I have noticed a few more people using the Waterfront Line. And keep in mind, when RTA pulled the plug in 2010 (?), trains were on a half-hour frequency. Now, they're every 15 minutes, which is very reasonable, so even if the same size groups on the trains are visually the same now as they were then, then obviously more people are riding. I've been noticing bigger groups (can't call them crowds yet) at the FEB station in evening rush hour. One in-bound train last week, with North Coast and FEB riders, was well over half full -- an accomplishment considering. I think with the Rapid being so visible, even some of the E&Y die-hards may try it out every now and again... And, of course, once Phase II goes online, the numbers will jump dramatically – the Rapid’s just too convenient to ignore. ... once more of Phase II goes online and then, hopefully, Phase III, parking is definitely going to be an issue. FEB is a small, mostly isolated footprint surrounded by a steep hill, the River, busy freight rail tracks and narrow converging streets with a large, and soon rapidly growing daytime (and evening) population. If Fairmount moves forward with the 2nd office building, the surface parking to the north and east along the RR tracks will disappear. I'm assuming parking in the apartment block will largely be for the residents, so the Phase II parking in the middle, along with some patches north of Front St. (along with the small surface lots south along 10th), are going to pretty much be it, unless some other garages are built.

That's probably the busiest theater complex in the region. It's central to a reasonably high population. Plus, it has lots of parking, and I doubt many people who were going to pay these prices and dress for a premiere event would consider taking RTA to it. Really? How do you explain CIFF in Tower City which is off the charts now in terms of patronage, with large portion of this group coming by train? ... so much so that: a) CIFF has been posting Rapid info and even maps in their literature for the most recent festivals and, b) RTA has actually been extending service till 1:30a on weekends for late CIFF films. A major-studio premeire crowd is a lot different. especially when we are talking about a fundraiser. ^see above revised post....

That's probably the busiest theater complex in the region. It's central to a reasonably high population. Plus, it has lots of parking, and I doubt many people who were going to pay these prices and dress for a premiere event would consider taking RTA to it. Really? How do you explain CIFF in Tower City which is off the charts now in terms of patronage, with large portion of this group coming by train? ... so much so that: a) CIFF has been posting Rapid info and even maps in their literature for the most recent festivals and, b) RTA has actually been extending service till 1:30a on weekends for late CIFF films... I'm not saying CIFF is necessarily a fancy-shmancy event, but the overwhelming bulk of the festival patrons are suburbanites; esp from East Side burbs, who dare I say, are white and very well heeled. Most don't dress up, but some do... I might also note that (happily) going downtown, even if by car, is become the cashe thing to do again... ... When I go downtown, a most often take the train. I like others to do so, but don't particularly care how others get there so long as they are there and creating synergy downtown. The one aspect that has hurt Cleveland so much in recent times, which you reflect E Roc, is this (perceived) convenience, suburbanization of so many retail, business and entertaiment aspects...

I hear you, but remember, Cleveland rejected Dual Hub in the late 1990s, when we had a Democrat in the WH (a Lewinsky-ed Dem, but a Dem nonetheless). ... Then we ran our more progressive transit chief out of town, as I understand, largely b/c of his 'extravagance' in pushing Dual Hub and we got, actually sought out,. Joe C ... A horrible trade imho, but whatareugonnado? … Point being: this episode is more reflective of Cleveland's political will towards transit (or more correctly, lack thereof) rather than the ability/non-ability to receive federal matching funds.

^That's a good point and has probably effected a number of cities... But I still do believe some cities have more political drive and determination to get stuff, like grade-separated ROW done. Keep in mind, L.A. built the short Blue Line segment to the Red/Purple Line (7th & Flower) Metro Center connection, but failed to continue the northward look over to Union Station because of costs, even back in the more favorable early 90s.... Recently though, they green lighted the so-called 'Regional Connector' to basically finish the job left undone which will now carry the Blue and Expo Lines through the previously-planned tunnel to connect wth the Gold Line and Union Station (with, I believe, the Expo Line branching south along the Gold Line toward East L.A)... Also, LA is building momentum toward extending the Purple Line stub westward toward Pacific coast and Santa Monica ... at least reaching the Beverly Hills and Westwood where there's a major medical complex IIRC ... ... so that even in tougher economic times, with the less favorable FTA match, L.A. is extending its subway lines, ... including the aforementioned Heavy Rail Purple line -- and as you know, it's almost unthinkable these days to extend heavy rail in subways outside of NYC (and even there it's challenging)... So even though it may be tough sledding, for some determined cities, as they say: if there's a will, there's a way... Denver, which is a (somewhat growing) Cleveland-size metro area is another example... Although they haven't built subways, they are builiding a grade-separated entry for the bulk of their LRT and electrified commuter rail into a newly-depressed Union Station ROW (with the innovative "Eagle" P3 financing arrangement which, I'm assuming, get's them around the more paltry FTA 50/50 split/match), -- a physical arrangement that is not-so-disimilar to what the Vans did with the east-west depressed (and elevated) ROW into Tower City in the 1920s.... I do recognize, though, that Denver, like Cleveland, was unable to get done a tunnel under its very dense Colfax/East corridor and does have a small portion of the LRT network running along the surface downtown -- Still, I can live with that small-portion downtown street running, since most of Denver's network is/will entered downtown via grade-separated ROWs.

Thats a stretch! I often agree with many things you say, but come on! What else could it be? It's political compromise. Isn't that what happened here when we rejected Dual Hub and settled for not-so-cheap, not-so-fast BRT? When you're spending that kind of money, I say do it right but too much of a city's future development rides on the decision... When it comes to urban highways and freeways, it's always build, build, build! and let the taxpayer be damned... For transit, the Holy Grail is... let's save money!

I just do not like LRT street-level transit malls in downtown areas; the result of cities unable to muster the political will to grade separate their rail lines in the downtown area. While Houston may be making progress in extending rail, this is a major weakness in their network and why the LA Metro, with its LRT downtown tunnels and elevated sections, is necessarily superior to Houston's and Dallas' LRT systems.

Again, whether one refers to the Red Line as light rail or heavy rail is irrelevant so long as they don’t mess with it… And as for being annoying… I’ll opt for being annoying if it can thwart those with regressive urban agendas, of which there are many in Cleveland and Ohio -- or is it Ohiotucky? Ohiossippi? Btw, the issue of running Light Rail on the Red Line may be a nonstarter for another reason: crash worthiness. The very busy NS tracks between W. 117 and the Airport are extremely close to the Red Line, and even though RTA uses “heavy rail” vehicles, the windows and I believe the sides of the cars shudder slightly when an air pocket is created by passing Red Line cars. (the Blue/Green LRT route is set farther away from active freight tracks, so it’s slightly safer). I don’t even want to think about the consequences of an NS derailment in the path of a Red Line vehicle. If anything, RTA should probably consider utilizing full-size commuter rail cars which are crash worthy. In addition, if RTA somehow magically did opt to extend the Red Line in the future – over the West Corridor through Lakewood and Westlake, or east into Lake county – they’d have the cars to simply run over the existing NS tracks. Yeah, yeah, I know the costs will probably make electrified expansion prohibitive, but… Crash worthiness is an issue, and is why Denver’s FasTracks has the odd commuter rail north, LRT south system.

Valley View sucks as the premiere location. It's a suburban location that's not even near any people, just the I-480/I-77 cloverleaf. Typical Cleveland anti-urban thinking.

^NFTA's “See Something, Say Something” app is something RTA should look into, esp on the Red Line with their unmanned stations where there may be no transit cops around.

^True dat!

I was bummed about last night, because it was a winnable game. But even after we were demolished in the 3rd quarter, we still made a run, and had a chance to win up until that very lucky Mike Conley 24-second buzzer beater that pretty much sealed our fate. Kyrie went nuts and pulled us to within a point in the last 3 mins: anybody's ballgame. .. I just looked at our March schedule and only Miami, San Antonio and, maybe, Houston are teams I'd say we can't beat. But teams like Golden State, the Clippers (who we have beaten), Phoenix and Brooklyn (who we beat, also) can be had. We also have Detroit and the Knicks who I think we SHOULD beat. Waiters, Andy and CJ may be coming back soon. It's not going to be easy, but I also don't think it's impossible considering the shakiness of the teams ahead of us. We also play the Bobcats twice in the last 21, and therefore have the chance to control our own fate with them. We owe them anyway.

^To me it's parallel to the 3-C train debacle of a few years ago. Kasich and the opponents, mainly Republican, seized on the term "high speed rail" and used it to attack building a train that overall traveled at (what?) 37MPH. Had people been educated to the fact an upgrading of rail needed to be undertaken before HSR could be implemented and that overall end-to-end speeds, which were no doubt exaggerated by opponents, didn't reflect regional speeds where conventional trains at 110 MPH could move people faster, then maybe we could have built this logical system to create, and attract, thousands (probably tens of thousands) of jobs... But when people don't know basic facts and even use proper terminology, they will be susceptible to misinformation. The 3-C affair was a textbook example.

I don't care what people call it; so long as they don't mess with it... It does however indicate a general regional lack of sophistication and/or interest which, in the end, handicaps the overall cause of transit and urbanization imho.

You're assuming that a dual-floor car isn't possible or desirable. I believe it is. Au contraire, I believe dual floor car is possible; Pittsburgh is using it (as is SF's Muni Metro, I believe, in the Market St. subway)-- it wouldn't be my cup of tea, but I could live with, and support it. I also understand the financial flexibility it is to have one type of car to move to different parts of the system based on ridership. Low platform conversion: I'm totally against and think foolish.

A lot is because "light rail" has become de rigueur and sexy in the public mindset; people who don't know much about transit (especially those who write about it and don't use it: AKA PD, Cleveland tour-guide writers) think that everything not in a subway tunnel is light rail.

Distinction: converting the Red Line to low floor LRT and spending millions to lower platforms -- especially converting Tower City (having all passengers board on the Blue/Green side... maybe), is throwing away an asset; especially re the Airport line and especially given the over $100M spent/spending to rebuild stations making them ADA compliant.. I didn't necessarily mean that for high/low platform LRT cars like those in Pittsburgh.

We were clicking in the 1st half like I hadn't seen us this season: our 65 was the most any team scored on Memphis in a half this season... Problem is, we weren't getting stops, esp in the 2nd quarter, so the Grizzlie's maintained contact. Memphis shot 52% in the 1st half, even when we were going crazy, and this had me worried... Then we completely fell apart in the 2nd half when they made a run. We allowed 17 straight points, which is inexcusable. Hawes and Thompson, respectively, couldn't contain Gasol and Randolph. We reverted into comeback mode... Kyrie spurred a run and we closed to within a point, but fizzled ... as we so often have. We're now 6 games out of the 8 seed in the loss column, which is tough... We let one get away tonight, and we need every win we can get.

It's a beautiful building; always my fave of the original Mall Group Plan buildings. I can't see this hotel but being anything but high class given the structure it will reside in.