clvlndr

Until KJP's photos, I didn't realize the density that already exists along Euclid Ave into Euclid. Red Line expansion to that area would encourage much more. I think extending the Red Line right up to the Lake County border would make the most sense (at least, until RTA remains strictly a Cuyahoga County-only entity). The convergence of the 2 super highways (I-90 & Rte 2) right at the western base of large/growing Lake County would really open up passengers to the Red Line high-speed option to Univ. Circle, especially... Downtown and Ohio City would be made much more accessbile to these riders as well... ... like many UOers have stated: it's amazing this extension wasn't built decades ago... At least RTA is seriously looking at it now... kudos to them!

^Actually, KJP, RTA (Jerry I believe) stated on UO a couple years ago that the 20-min (which is unacceptable to even the Windermere branch for base or rush hours), which was reduced from the 15-min intervals then in place, in order to allow construction at the Puritas Rapid station... Well, Puritas, of course, has been open for most of the year and, yet, we still have the 20-min schedules. It seems RTA did this to save money more than necessity... Which I'm fine with as an emergency, financial measure, given our stingy state gov... I just wish RTA would be straight with us... Mid-day Red Line... I've noticed the crowds, too; it's visual evidence of the 17+% ridership increase... And with this, the Red Line's infamous "silver bullet" single-car specials have all but disappeared. Yay!! I sure hope, once the casino opens, RTA may consider adding a few late night trains on Friday and Sat. Downtown and Ohio City are really hopping with nightlife these days, and Midnight-ending trains seems so podunk-ish, as well as being anti-public service (consider all those liquored-up drivers removed from downtown streets!).

Remarkable. Those trains and infrastructure look almost comparable to the Red Line... I guess it was the Vans dream to have these trains access downtown via the the (now) Blue/Green/Red Line ROW... Darn shame it never happened.

^btw, one way electric Red Line expansion could be made cheaper, and worthwhile, would be for NS to reroute it's daytime trains, north on the Superior Ave/Colinwood junction, so that Red Line trains could simply switch over, and wires strung over, the existing NS rails. That way almost no infrastructure building would be needed -- NS could service its existing customers along Euclid with nighttime shuttles when the Rapid would be offline.

^^Windermere station conversion -- OK, I see how the Eastbound track could be extended through. RTA would still have to seal off the track area with glass and/or metal to maintain the temp-controlled environment of the atrium. Also, the atrium would also be cut in size; be more cramped feeling -- all this, plus the cost to retrofit, seems really unnecessary if RTA had simply built both tracks through in prep for possible future expansion; this is esp true given your overhead Bing shot showing the immense amount of land RTA had to work with. Diesel or EMU? I understand the idea of using diesel/conversion cars which can access more parts of the system cheaply. Still, I'd prefer we go whole hog -- extend the wires; all the way to Mentor, if need be, but certainly near the Lake County border. Why electric? Even given the greater expense, I believe the traffic-generating capacity of this long, dense corridor warrants electric trains, at least for a 6-10 mile extension. Even with this, you could still extend conventional diesel commuter rail all the way to the Penna border. I'm not sure DMU in a commuter-rail type format, from Windermere to Euclid/Lake County would adequately handle the traffic. Also, from what I understand about the technology, the diesel switchover equipment for whatever reason (excess weight?) isn't feasible -- otherwise, why aren't older systems like Boston or New York using them (or newer ones like Dallas or LA?). Besides this, our dominant physical plant is electric-train oriented; diesel cars would be Denver (with its FasTracks), which has city/metro density lower than Cleveland's, is building a vast, mainly electric rail network, including a 3-prong electrified commuter rail system. In Cleveland, I just think we need to raise our sights a little bit and believe a little. Projects like the amazing University Circle Uptown (which KJP cites as causing the renewed interest in Red Line/Healthline expansion) is a prime example of Cleveland breaking through a decades-long WE CAN'T barrier to accomplish something special that we know Clevelanders can and will support... Hopefully our increasing urbanization and Red Line patronage, will lead us to expanding the Red Line as propose -- but lets shoot for a Mercedes (as in fully electric expansion), ... and not a Ford Fusion (DMU). We've been told too long that the best we deserve (and can afford) is 2nd rate.

While I'm thrilled to see Detroit's new-found love for things transit, this is not a wise extension. I mean, do you really think you're going to lure a car-driving culture like greater Detroiters to a 17 mile street trolley with a thousand stops? Just building a trolley line just to say they have transit isn't the smart approach (even in a metro area whose suburban bus system is, indeed, called SMART!). Even if on mainly private ROWs, (which the Woodward line probably won't be), 17 miles for radial LRT line is a bit much. Dallas and LA have them, but their lines are largely on private, high-speed ROWs, largely next to freight rail... Now, if the Woodward line jogged over to Grand Trunk freight/Amtrak line at 8 Mile/State fairgrounds, it would be considerably better. Still, restoring the commuter Line out to Pontiac would make more sense.

The 1950s subway loop (killed by Al Porter, after feds approved a loan for the starter rapid, and voters overwhelmingly approved of the subway loop), the Dual Hub (Killed by NoACTION), and last year, the 3-C's Amtrak line, (even after the $400M starter money gift from Obama, it was still killed by Republicans (it was going to be tough sledding w/ the GOP, even if Strickland won,... it just so happened that he didn't, so right-o wacko Kasich did the deed for GOP legislators)... Is there a theme here? Like, it's not the FEDS that are killing transit options here, but rather the backward locals who keep thwarting the needs and even the will of the people. The question is, when are we going to collectively grow a spine and, at the very least, stop rewarding these knuckle-draggers at the polls (that includes rewarding them by not not voting? ... an act which has too often indirectly elected these clowns)

The Cleveland Centric-ness of the previous plans was both a strength and a weakness. By going all the way to Cleveland, you add significantly to the ridership, but you also add to the cost and more importantly you add to the number of people that have to cooperate to make it happen and that can scream "Not in my back yard!" Well Keith, I think you're on the right track (no pun intended)... although, rather than NIMBY, I think you'll hear: "We're not going to pay for THAT."

I must admit, RTA getting $1M to study a possible Red Line extension to (around) Euclid Square Mall has totally (pleasantly) caught me off guard... It's made sense for decades (I think even the Vans proposed it in the 1920s!), but I figured our ineptitude at ... well, maybe this is a sign things are a changin'... finally. One issue: it seems the still new-ish Windermere station would have to be seriously altered to extend tracks beyond it-- which seemed to me poor planning when it was rebuilt. The potential eastbound track dead-ends into the handsome atrium. Only the westbound track and a storage/non-revenue track to the north go through... Given this, how would extension happen? Would RTA spend $Mils to rebuild the atrium to allow the Eastbound track to cut through? Or, would RTA turn the storage track into the Westbound track (with the current through Westbound track to switch to Eastbound, and thus force riders to/from Westbound trains to walk across the Eastbound track at grade with a signal and cross-bucks (a la the current Brookpark's temp station), to a ramp and stairs to the platfrom? Hmmm.

^^I would love the Det-Superior bridge subway deck to be used, but a subway up Detroit probably wouldn't be cost effective, even if it surfaced and ran street level just beyond W. 25th... This is because the existing Red Line exists too close to this corridor, even though it doesn't directly serve the inner portion. However, even at W. 65 at the thriving Gordon Square complex, the W. 65 Madison/Lorain/Eco Village station is barely 3/4 mile away (if it's even that). Then, from W. 65 westward, Detroit slopes to the SW so to the point where the Red Line actually crosses Detroit at the West Blvd station... There are too many areas that have no nearby service that should have priority over a Detroit rapid line; like a W. 25/Pearl/Parma line or the Blue Line extension, the later of which happily RTA is moving forward on in its planning.

Why? I just personally think the silver cars are a bit dull. Red would add some color and make the trains more flashy. I prefer the Red Line cars just as they are. Their silver bodies are quite sleek imho-- adding that, plus their interior design (3 doors vs. 2 at the ends of the Airporters -- meaning quicker enterance/exiting), and comfortable ride, makes these the best rail cars Cleveland's run in my lifetime (which stretchs back to the yellow orange Shaker Rapid cars and the CTS "bluebirds"). The Tokyu cars also have the beauty of being super large without feeling big and bulky like the Airporters.

This was just a concrete elevator shaft a few months ago... amazing how quickly they're moving with this and neighbor UC Uptown next door... Can't wait til it all opens, which appears not that far off.

Don't know if CMSD's building will become a hotel, but whatever happens I hope our (much criticized) Landmarks Commission watches it very carefully w/r to any proposed alterations... CMSD (opened around 1931 or 2) is the last, and in my opinion most beautiful, public building completed pursuant to Daniel Burnham's amazing Mall Group plan of 1903.

Thanks, 327.

^nice video, KJP... everyone was quite informative.

^and it's potential rebirth is helping extend the retail district up W. 25th.

Should Joe Calabrese have gotten the bonus? Plusses: - Balanced budget with severe service cuts and minimal service increases (but it could be worse; Pittsburgh is considering halving bus service and ending all weekend rail service… Ouch!) - finished the Health Line reasonably w/in budget and on time. - Continued Rapid station rebuilding program with nice-looking, efficient facilities - Pushing forward with the Blue Line extension study - Implemented the POP program on the Red Line, which was badly needed to speed boarding and economically allow for longer trains (but see, below) - RTA’s unique, transfer-less, 1-fare or all-day-pass program (implemented under Calabrese), overall, is smart, easier to use than most big-city transit systems - Downtown Trolley has been a hit - Rack-‘n-Roll program on busses, Rapids and bike racks at Rail stations is well done - Expanded Commuter bus program along freeways - Directed more bus lines into Rapid stations, esp on the West side. Negatives: - Red Line POP roll out has been extremely problematic; just short of disastrous (terrible difficult to use, too-low to the ground farecard machines; poor monitoring of fare jumpers with too much flip-flopping re enforcement – it was too rough to begin with, now RTA’s flipping back) - Raggedy, goofy, disorganized facilities on Rapids, like the GPS station-PA system (which most drivers now unplug), broken, inaccurate train LEDs in stations, cheap-o rapid destination signs while others are broken (or where, when they're not broken, Rapid drivers don't even bother to change them at ends-of-lines), etc... - Bus turning/death disaster (horribly irresponsible driver which was poor PR for RTA, coupled with an – as usual – RTA overreaction with the noisy speaker/audible turning warnings) - Healthline concrete controversy - EACH OF THESE make it seem like RTA is flying by the seat of its pants - ^in each of these controversies (and others not noted), there’s been a lack of Calabrese up-front accountability. - Very poor maintenance of many stations (W. 25, West Blvd, among others), trains (many are very dirty), Rights-of-way (the Blue/Green trenches, esp along Shaker Blvd are overgrown and often, strewn with lots of trash – a situation the Blue/Green (and it’s Shaker Rapid predecessor) has NEVER had. - Lack of support, planning or specificity for long-term rail expansion (including Rapid, Commuter Rail, CVSR expansion into Tower City – note that little Akron METRO took over and expanded CVSR south to Canton; where’s Calabrese?? )… this includes not speaking out more forcefully for the now-trashed (by Kasich) 3-C Amtrak program or the still-pending Midwest Hub system – RTA’s rail line would interface beautifully with most of these potential rail lines which, in turn, making Amtrak more accessible to urban (and even suburban) riders (again, where’s Calabrese). - TOD program – although it’s not RTA’s alone to champion (where’s Mayor Jackson, City Council, certain burbs, etc), RTA has not always pushed for TOD as hard or as smartly as it could (one exception appears to be the stalled Mayfield/Little Italy station program coordinated with UCI, among others) THE VERDICT: the bonus was a bad idea… Not that it broke the RTA bank, … but then again, RTA IS broke, and that’s the point. It sends a bad message when the much-starved (by Ohio) transit agency has implemented many cuts that hurt riders (many un/under employed) riders in a very economically struggling city turns around and rewards its top man. MERIT? And even though, as noted, Calabrese as several plusses, many of his minuses are VERY bad, even inexcusable, which in my mind thwarts any idea of a public reward for the RTA GM.

I thought building phase 2 was part of Gilbert's deal in getting the issue passed... But I could be wrong... It does seem like a lot of $$ is being focused on Higbee's... I mean, would you really invest in an expensive (and controversial) overhead walkway to the parking lo--, er, I mean, welcome center to a temporary facility? You guys' suspicion may be right. It sure would tamp down my excitement for this project.

I like ABC... but I'm confusted as to it's planned location... where is "directly behind [MOCA]?"

I'm not going to rip the liquor store... but I'm not doing handstands about it, either, esp at that location where, on a normal Friday or Sat night, public drunkenness makes it undesirable; to me, at least... surprisingly, I'd rather there be a full service Walgreens, ... if not there, somewhere nearby (ditto for Ohio City, btw)...

I've seen the Van Sweringen plan (circa 1919) before, and have seen it elsewhere besides UO. Question: of the Shaker Lines planned, why isn't the Green (Green Rd) line not shown? We do know that, by 1919, the street level version along what would become Shaker Blvd was running between Coventry and Courtland. So obviously the 2 lines, in the 2 major boulevards -- Shaker and Moreland (later Van Aken) was already in the works from the beginning... Is this a map oversight?

At least there's some momentum for some kind of TOD in West Park, which has a ton of obstacles (despite having a Red Line stop and a walking district in Kamm's Corner ... albeit a mile separating the two)... It would have been better had RTA not built (and then rebuilt, in 1997) the friggin' West Park station so far away from the street; RTA just compounded the error. And in between (RTA and Kamm's), you've got to overcome all the strip-suburbanish crap like the big-box K-Mart and the umpteen Ganley car lots which pock mark the corridor... Still, this is better than nothing, and it least it shows an interest in creating a walkable district near the Rapid station... Recognition of the problem/solution is always a necessary 1st start.

"I'm going to disagree with you slightly. I'm sure you ride the Philly trains more than I do, but I - just coming from Philly - witnessed rail operator changes at stations other than Suburban or Market." - MyTwoSense Really? I've never seen it... not doubting you, but in my many daily recruits on both Chestnut Hill Lines, I haven't seen it. Engineers and conductors I've seen always change at shifts at Suburban then often hitch riders to one of the major storage/repair lots -- 30th or Roberts (near Wayne Junction) ... I'm sure the hop rides to other parts of the system, too... "Having said that, having a train wait for 10 minutes backs up the entire line." - MyTwoSense Actually, no. We were on a westbound/inbound Green Line train on late afternoon Saturday (Sept. 4). At that time Blue and Green trains run on 30 min intervals, meaning that on trunk/main portion of the line from Shaker Sq. westward, trains are every 15 minutes. As you know, by 55th street, the Red Line trains have merged with us, though I did not witness any Red Line trains either ahead or behind us. Red Line trains run on 20 min intervals at all times (generally) on the Stokes/Windermere branch, so if one had just gone by there wouldn't be one before the next Blue Line train: more than 15 mins.... our train sat unmanned about 7-10 mins.

When you stop midway across the crosswalk which crosses Ontario at Euclid, turn and look south, in the space between Horsehoe/Higbee's and what will be the new parking garage/retail/welcome center, you see... blue skies framing a radio tower, to the right, and a tall, black smokestack in the center. And this is the vista we're fighting to save?... Sorry, I'll take a shiny, state-of-the-art steel & glass, well-lit, diagonal overhead walkway that will make us look like a modern city.

Questions for Jerry: Can't RTA revise it's Rapid-driver, shift-change policy? It really sucks that trains stop, and drivers change mid-trip at the E. 55 station. The other day, the driver stopped/parked at the station; packed his satchel and departed our in-bound Green Line train at E. 55 without a word... The train sat unmanned for a good 7-10 mins until the next driver sashayed up to the train, got to the controls and we finally left... I can't believe it's SOP or even legal to leave an operational train like that -- the only good thing was that I got to eyeball the new E. 55 station for a good 10 mins... Philly's huge regional rail system makes shift/personnel changes downtown at the beginnings/ends of train route runs, where they should be. Drivers and conductors then hitch rides on other trains to yards, like the Roberts train yard, to get to their autos... RTA could/should do this, too; E. 55 is on the busy stretch of rail in the RTA system, so drivers would not have to wait long to hop train rides to their cars at ... What say you, Jerry? Re the rail Train Leaving LED signs: is RTA planning on fixing them? I'm disappointed the vendor-built signs in Tower City were removed. On a rapid rail system that is less frequent/more schedule based than most, these signs are important... And the ones in stations beyond Tower City are all but useless -- they're almost never correct. Jerry, isn't RTA going to tighten this up... Seems like even busy subway systems like NYC and DC are geting into the time leaving/arriving sign act... Where the heck is RTA?