clvlndr

Guess I'm warming to the project a little bit more, learning of the expansion possibilities... I just didn't want this to be a rush/half-ass project, and it looks like it may not be. And let's face it, as nice a concept and place as it is, the Powerhouse has been struggling for years to keep major restaurant tenants. Maybe the aquarium can rejuvenate both this building as well as Nautica and the Sugarhouse/Shooters area. Plus, I agree with Jborger that I'd love a second phase to cover up that huge, ugly gulf of surface parking that separates the Powerhouse from the Sugarhouse area...

It's very promising. (folks are probably too wrapped up in an amazing OSU win in the Sugar Bowl!!)... A couple things I take away: - glad to see RTA committed to the future of Stokes/Windermere Red Line branch - also glad RTA's moving forward with the Blue Line expansion study... the TOD at the Chagrin/Warrensville intersection could/should be a model for others. - very good RTA has closely followed so many population and potential service growth corridors. - and, as I noted, very nice to see RTA committed to the transit-as-a-tool-for-growth paradigm. - the emphasis on a true (beyond Cuyahoga County) Regional transit system is great too... I'm a little disappointed that I didn't see more support for potential commuter rail corridors, especially given that the West Shore planning and study is moving forward, although I know you've mentioned RTA isn't interested in shouldering commuter rail operating costs without more dedicated funding (although Lorain County seems very interested in this rail line).

"Transit must take a step forward from reacting to redeveloping the new NE Ohio." This is the most important sentence in the entire report. It'd sure be nice if Cleveland and NEO public officials took this to heart.

No, it isn't really relevant, but it is the plan that RTA was referring to in the Transit 2025 plan that KJP posted. In other words, RTA hasn't said anything about extending the Waterfront line in a few years, it's not really a priority to them. You're probably correct. I like to think of transit as a cure for a city's economic ills, esp TOD rail... But many Americans don't think that way (maybe some in the Obama Admin who, of course, was trying to GIVE us 3-C seed/start-up $$ until a man named Kasich and...)... The reality is that extensive rail expansion is going to be a hard sell for a city like Cleveland with our steep population losses and rough economy. While I've preferred the shoreline east expansion, to E. 88th and beyond, the fact is a Google or Bing maps satellite view shows mainly industrial usage, with miles of derelict factories and weed-covered rail sidings... about the only residential growth in the corridor in recent times is the lonely Quay-55 at East 55. To extend would create a Waterfront Line problem all over again, unfortunately. RTA has other priorities now, among them completing the Red Line station rebuilding program, the Blue Line expansion plan and studies for BRT west along Clifton, in addition to finding a better source of dedicated funding... the current struggling WFL will finally be getting its 1st major TOD, with the Wolstein Flats East Bank project, so it'll probably be a wait-'n-see approach until any serious WFL expansion will occur, Loop or Shore Line...

Wasn't aware of this... have always heard nothing but great things about Bingham, to the extent that it is usu considered one of the elite rentals downtown (with perhaps spanking new 668 and maybe Reserve Sq. being its biggest large-building competitors)... One thing's for sure: Constantino's is thriving with its recent expansion including a new (I believe) pizzaria section... Was just in there yesterday eve (around 7:30p) and the place was buzzing w/ activity. Don't know what's going on in the apartments section, but this store can only enhance its rep, where residents don't even have to go outside.

FasTracks is amazing in its growth, esp considering Denver's population density (3,900/sq. mi) compared to Cleveland's 6,100/sq. mi (although we may dip below 6,000 after the new census is talied where Cleveland likely will slip under 400K)... I believe Denver's new Gold Line to DIA will be America's 1st new-start electric commuter railroad since the Depression.

Time for a Mayor Jackson nudge, no?

One unintended (or maybe intended) result of Kasich's very foolish act is to further drive a wedge between Northern (esp Cleveland) and Southern Ohio. We all know the Cleveland -- left and Cincy/Columbus right thing isn't clean, but this act kind of manifests that Cleveland seems to, culturally, have more in common with Chicago and the major cities of the East.. Sometimes it seems that the only passion this whole state has in common is Ohio State football... The 3-Cs killing sickened me -- aside from the obvious benefits of 3-C much cited, we need the psychologically connective tissue of rail... but as a Clevelander I'm hopeful as the UO train experts have noted that we can move forward as a midwest hub satellite. And as a quick aside, I think public transit-wise, the Cleveland vs Cincy/C-Bus divide appears to be growing ... even Cincy's modest streetcar plan (which I'm hopeful for) appears in jeopardy by foolishness, notably the ridiculous shotgun marriage of the NAACP and the usual transit bashers from the right... let's hope they're defeated... Currently transit-wise are, relatively speaking, salad days for Greater Cleveland -- we, of course, have the State's only rapid rail and it's being upgraded, esp with new TOD/TOD-like projects, upgraded cars, ROW and stations... We've got the Health Line and, despite it's flaws, is worthy as a new type of transit that continues to draw interest, riders and new development... We also have a unique, working near-60 mile passenger railroad (CVSR) which is growing exponentially, popularity-wise and hopefully soon will soon will be connected to downtown... The Blue Line Rapid is moving forward with a TOD expansion plan (including, perhaps, to N. Randall and/or Chagrin Highlands ... and transit Chief Joe Calabrese is actually behind this!... and even the West Shore Commuter rail is chugging along (sorry for the metaphor) towards completion to further supplement our transit network... I inventory these transit accomplish not to chest thump but only to show, despite my extreme frustration with Cleveland transit-wise at times, we're a transit beacon for this state (at least, we should be) and, I can only wish, hope can be used as a platform to finally get 3-C done and serve as an example for transit connection to 3-C stops ... in the other 2 Cs, that is, ... but if not, Cleveland needs to suck up this terrible setback, and move on to enhance its rail connectivity with the rest of Amtrak and to cities and states that we have more in common with... No, Ohio is one state and not 2 ... technically, that is. But, as they say, perception is reality and for that? John Kasich, take a bow.

Hts, you make a good point... I thought, though, there was some technicality for Wolstein/Fishman to receive financing that they put a shovel into the dirt by 12/30/10... even if it's a cursory gesture...

... btw, the Van Sweringens, in the 1920s, projected much of today's Red Line as the spine/starter line of their county-wide system of rapid transit ... and it was the only one where any work actually materialized beyond the up 'n running Shaker lines... But their plan was for the Western leg to stretch westerly thru Lakewood to downtown Rocky River, and not dogleg southwest toward the Airport, as it now does.

Self pity my ass... it wouldn't be 5-10 years if your new-best buddy, Joe Calabrese, wasn't picking his nose, frittering away 1/2 federal funds for this project while the money just sat there. If he'd moved forward with this project, at least acted like a responsible co-player in all this and partnered with whatever agency he needed to -- instead of his usual cry/rant that RTA is too broke, and too county-oriented to stand the hell up and act like real, engaged transit chief, the NCTC would probably be nearing completion by now, if not being completed.

I'm thrilled this worthwhile project is finally moving forward. Like others, though, I am totally disgusted that RTA sat on this money for years waiting for the NCTC and MM to materialize and, in the process, wasted half of it... I'm not surprised this happened under Joe Calabrese's incompetent RTA. This should be thoroughly investigated. Thank goodness, as KJP noted, the Ohio Railway Commission kept the project alive. I'm also put off by the looooong completion projection: 5 to 10 years.. why? Maybe there's some justification for this, but I often feel officials here do this because they're scared sh_tless of success. ... that's why its so refreshing with really short timeframes for a change: 1 year for 3-Cs and/or the Cleveland casino to get started. Maybe they're unrealistic, but at least you get the sense the relevant public figures behind them are itching to get their projects up and running as opposed to the long-laggers, who seem to build in cushions almost seemingly expecting, even hoping, some intervening event will deep-6 the project. Another one of those OIC (Only in Cleveland) kinda things, I guess.

Thanks 327. Yeah, I know RTA is a beast that's tough to move... thankfully though the process of rail expansion, though in its infancy, is moving forward. In the pipeline we've got West Shore, 3-C Ohio Hub and the Blue Line -- which even if its extended only 800 feet through the Chagrin-Warr intersection, represents some progress and sets up for future expansion to 1 or 2 points on the SE Outerbelt freeway system. The commonality in all these? Individual groups have moved ahead without RTA with driven, like-minded folks and well executed plans: in this case All Aboard Ohio and the City of Shaker Heights. Even though there was no expansion, Eco-City Cleveland gave a grass roots push to rebuilding the W. 65 Red Line stop when there had been talk of closing the station. As to the Lakewood Red Line expansion: I'd love to go to Clifton Hts and across the river to Rocky River -- but I sense that NIMBY action (a la Berea) would threaten the former, and expense (featuring a Rocky River high-level bridge), the later. That's why, for now at least, I'd be content with getting the Rapid into the core of Lakewood density (downtown), while also serving the high-rise Gold Coast as well as the busy, potential-laden W.117 corridor. The potential cross- pollination of the different rail services is historically what the old-line rapid rail cities like NYC, Chicago, Boston & Philly have done -- you know, back in the good old days when expensive Rapid rail like DC Metro and BART didn't double as lower expense/frequency commuter rail fanning deep into lower density suburban areas... But while the West Shore Line thru Lakewood opens up tons of regional opportunities, its close-in portion in such a busy, dense and growing (at least, building-wise) urbanized core needs to be supplemented by a higher frequency/capacity service that only a rapid transit like the Red Line can provide. Bing maps Birdseye View shows there are behind the building line surface lots in downtown Lakewood that could be built upon – vertically, that is. And with the Red Line brushing past the area as it currently does, this project (to you and me, at least) is the equivalent of transit low-hanging fruit.

I'm just curious... why hasn't RTA (or anybody here) mentioned extending a branch from the Red Line Rapid (at West Blvd) west along the N-S railroad to the center of Lakewood, about 3 miles away? This distance is about equal to the Van Aken Blue Line east from Shaker Square (shorter than the Green Line)... Lakewood is the 2nd most densely populated city between Philadelphia and Chicago. Such a Red Line extension would pass within 2.5 blocks from the uber-dense/beautiful Gold Coast. The Detroit corridor along the route is growing with new condos/townhouses, like Rockport (?) just west of W. 117th Street. Downtown Lakewood near Detroit & Warren Rd is also growing as a restaurant/entertainment hub. The N/S (and potential Rapid terminal there) is 1/2 block behind the building line. As the West Shore commuter rail plan is slowly moving forward, it would make great sense to have a combined Rapid/Train transfer terminal/station for RTA commuters (say from Univ. Circle) to go into Lorain county (or Lorain county folks to transfer for an Airport connection, among others). Personally, I'd try and seek Fed money to elevate the railroad and eliminate the Lakewood generations-old fuss about the trains at street level -- which could easily be done because the elevated train ROW, like the Chicago L (and the East Cleveland RR/Red Line) would be invisible behind the Detroit building line. But a cheaper (I know Cleveland loves cheap) surface-level Rapid extension could work, too -- unlike Chicago with live 3rd rails at street level in some limited areas, our trains use centenary, which is safely up and away from track level -- just that a surface route would not quite as efficiently. ... btw, Chicago has a number of L (rapid transit) commuter train transfer/interfaces... probably the closest one that I envision for downtown Lakewood is the Green Line/Union Pacific terminal/station near the Oak Park/Forest Park border west of the Loop.

^thanks.

I'm just curious... why hasn't RTA (or anybody here) mentioned extending a branch from the Red Line Rapid (at West Blvd) west along the N-S railroad to the center of Lakewood, about 3 miles away? This distance is about equal to the Van Aken Blue Line east from Shaker Square (shorter than the Green Line)... Lakewood is the 2nd most densely populated city between Philadelphia and Chicago. Such a Red Line extension would pass within 2.5 blocks from the uber-dense/beautiful Gold Coast. The Detroit corridor along the route is growing with new condos/townhouses, like Rockport (?) just west of W. 117th Street. Downtown Lakewood near Detroit & Warren Rd is also growing as a restaurant/entertainment hub. The N/S (and potential Rapid terminal there) is 1/2 block behind the building line. As the West Shore commuter rail plan is slowly moving forward, it would make great sense to have a combined Rapid/Train transfer terminal/station for RTA commuters (say from Univ. Circle) to go into Lorain county (or Lorain county folks to transfer for an Airport connection, among others). Personally, I'd try and seek Fed money to elevate the railroad and eliminate the Lakewood generations-old fuss about the trains at street level -- which could easily be done because the elevated train ROW, like the Chicago L (and the East Cleveland RR/Red Line) would be invisible behind the Detroit building line. But a cheaper (I know Cleveland loves cheap) surface-level Rapid extension could work, too -- unlike Chicago with live 3rd rails at street level in some limited areas, our trains use centenary, which is safely up and away from track level -- just that a surface route would not quite as efficiently. I just wonder why this hasn't been considered, esp with the Red Line corridor skimming the fringe of Lakewood already? I’m sure this line would draw a lot of riders because its close to large numbers and goes where a lot of people go (downtown Lakewood is also a sizable employment destination, esp w/ Lakewood Hospital there) Why is everybody so gung-ho about BRT (on Clifton or Detroit) esp given that a Clifton BRT wouldn't adeequately serve this area as well anyway? ... because BRT is cheap? Will Cleveland always be defined by doing things cheaply as opposed to efficiently?

No question, Gordon Square is a hit, and the northern part of D-S will only get better as Battery Park continues unfolding... I wish now, more attention was paid to the southern portion of D-S which is still struggling along the Lorain corridor. It sure would be nice if some of the zillions of ugly used car lots pockmarking Lorain Ave could be converted into TOD, esp around the nicely rebuilt W. 65th Rapid station of 6 years ago.

^ Yes! Maybe it won't happen tomorrow. But at least 2 of Pittsburgh's key pols are pushing for expansion (and the Airport expansion concept continues to be posted on PAT's website as an offshoot of the a- building under-river tunnel). ... and PAT's transit GM is not fighting it (hmmm)... Rapid transit expansion is a huge undertaking -- often the largest public works project of a particular city. And as I am a local rare bird who actually likes RTA's WFL for its potential positive impact on Cleveland's development, Pittsburgh's Allegheny River tunnel is a much more significant undertaking that is poised to open up a whole territory that is totally unserved to date (including bringing an airport connection). In Cleveland, we've not had our pols really get on board with rail expansion (aside from the push for the 3-C's Amtrak line, which is a step forward, indeed). In Cleveland, we had Dennis Kucinich squelch the West Corridor commuter plan because of the N-S train reduction deal, which should never have been allowed to cover short, much quieter commuter trains... at least the West Shore is slowly moving forward (I see the alternative analysis Fed funding has now been granted which is great), but the Dennis deal has probably set the project back over a decade... At least in Pittsburgh, it appears public officials are all singing from the same sheet of music ... just as they did in Baltimore to get the all-important MTA Red Line to the high planning point they are now... All I'm saying is, it would be nice to see some of that pro-rail cooperation interest on the Shores of Lake Erie... if we did, we would probably find the possibilities would be limitless.

Let's hope the Cornell/Euclid hotel is at least over 150 rooms because U.Circle, proper, doesn't have a traditional scale hotel. This location is fantastic, a short walk from all the UC museums and colleges and Little Italy; and a short block from the planned Uptown development -- and, of course, UH. You could hardly ask for more... I'm glad for the Clinic hotels, but unless I had biz at the Clinic, I couldn't think of a blander/deader area for a hotel room ... come to think of it, even if I had biz at the Clinic, I wouldn't want to stay there -- I'll stay closer to activity and commute, thank you... Tudor should be nice -- always loved the architecture. Its at least at the edge of U.Circle; better than the Clinic hotels in that sense.

^Last I recall was Pittsburgh officials were , not only to extend the river tunnel extension (approx) 18 miles to Pitts. Intl. Airport, but also to extend eastward up the 5th Ave/Forbes corridor to Oakland - a so-called "spine line" similar to our dual-hub (now HL) corridor.

Zinc is a high quality place and a very pleasant break from the greasy burger/sports joints all over downtown... I still would have preferred K & D keeping the Dollar Bank building and continuing a mixed-use frontage along Euclid, and not have a driveway in the middle of the block ... but Zinc's plaza is much better than I expected... Unfortunately, I think the colder months will also make the empty plaza seem cold too; let's hope the sign and word-of-mouth will keep drawing patrons from the street to Zinc's somewhat hidden entrance... its all good. btw: keep the bare wall. No murals, please! MTS is right, the pretty Philly murals are for a totally different purpose: to spruce up often rundown, ugly surroundings... This is not applicable to a downtown, high-class restaurant/apt complex ... I may have liked some of the 668 apt windows to have balconies; it would enhance the appearance... but the bare walls aren't horrible...adds to Cleveland's unique industrial-hip charm... keep 'em.

I'd hardly call spending $1M or so to connect the existing WFL into business downtown to make it more viable a "pie in the sky" idea, ... but direction to the WFL thread would be worthwhile... ... btw, if you ride a WFL bound Blue/Green Line train into downtown, by the time you get thru the turnstile, up the escalator and out the Terminal Tower door, the train you left is through the Flats and 1 min from E. 9th... The only way you beat it to City Hall/Fed Build/Erieview/North Pt on foot is if you're Usain Bolt. ... btw 2, the E. 9th incline up to Lakeside is no greater (and shorter) to the one down the Rock Hall (and across 2 Shoreway exit/entrances)... Last time I looked, a whole lot of elderly folks walk up/down the stretch easily every day... I think you're reaching.

NOTE: Just like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, another Cleveland-similar city, has rejected BRT and is moving forward toward construction of a critical LRT with downtown and neighborhood subway components. When completed, the Red Line will bind Balto's disjointed rail network, into a powerhouse, connecting currently missed dense trip generators like the Inner Harbor (2 stops), historic/trendy Fells Point and Canton... ... here in Cleveland, LRT expansion is frowned upon and "subway" is a curse word, despite the fact Cleveland has a Rapid system with subway portals and a full subway under the Det-Sup Br. from downtown... Maybe by the time Pittsburgh and Balto have completed their subways, Cleveland's RTA will have totally replaced the Rapid the Joe C's BRT... how out of step with reality is Cleveland???? MTA Announces Improvements to Red Line Tunnel Enhancements, Other Improvements Included in Request for Federal Funding The Maryland Transit Administration’s (MTA) request for funding for the Red Line will include $121 million in key enhancements to the project announced last summer, including a two track tunnel under Cooks Lane in western Baltimore City. The Red Line is a 14.5-mile light rail line that will serve communities between Woodlawn and the Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center and enhance the regional transit network with connections to the Metro Subway, Light Rail and MARC Train. In announcing his selection of the route in 2009, Governor O’Malley recognized the potential for efficient, dependable transportation to provide access to job opportunities for corridor residents. http://www.baltimoreredline.com/home/122-mta-announces-improvements-to-red-line

The Waterfront Line was never correctly marketed by RTA (or the City). It was always marketed as a mere tourist line geared toward the Flats and Rock Hall. However, a few hardy Shaker riders (as well as some transferring from the Red Line), used to access the Erieveiw area, even the Galleria, from the Line. I always though ex-mayor Jane Campbell could have set a great example by taking a Blue/Green train from her Shaker Square area home directly to City Hall which sits next to the E. 9th/North Coast Station. I mean, the woman grew up in Shaker Heighs along the Shaker lines, for cryin' out loud! (but hey, this is Cleveland -- why support quality transit when you can worship the almighty auto and sit back and bittch about how much money we waste on rail transit -- or how smart/how much we save by not building it?) No one has ever addressed why, for a relatively small sum, modifications couldn't be made -- like stairwells, and maybe an elevator, to office buildings along Lakeside, the WFL could be better accessed. My brother used to work at North Pointe building and when the Waterfront Line first opened, and trains were serving the WFL every 15 mins during rush hour, he loved it. That building sets adjacent to the WFL, (although you have to cross wide/busy E. 9th to get there)... Of course when you begin cutting service to the bare minimum, people stop riding, and then transit systems justify cutting service even more -- the old transit chicken-egg trick. Grumpy, I don't agree that anybody arriving downtown by Rapid can out-walk the Waterfront Line to E. 9th (from Public Square)... I hear that all the time, though. If you figure (for logic's sake) 1/3 of all rail passengers enter downtown on the Blue/Green Lines, no way those passengers can get off the Rapid, ride the escalators to Public Square and walk or bus to the Erieview complex anywhere near what a 1-seat Rapid could do... Even transferring Red Line passengers could still beat walking/busing given that the Tower City transfer was so easy (again, as opposed to going all the way up to Public Square and catching a bus)... ... but of course, if WFL service becomes crappy, it again justifies cutting it when people aren't not using it... and that's what RTA has done. First it was cutting trains (to about every 1/2 hour which is absurd for rush hour) then removing rush-hour fare takers (which meant drivers had to sit and count coins for every passenger, and obviously much slower service (than the normal 5 mins from E. 9th to Tower City ride)... Yeah, why ride what could/should be a signature RTA service?

You're right, CTown, Shaker blew it with the rebuilt at Shakertowne Center (aka, the old Chagrin-Lee-Avalon). Even though it didn't stretch the entire block and, there was a mixed use building on the North side of Chagrin that was mixed use. Upstairs in that building, I used to go bowling as a kid at Kinsman-Lee Lanes. At street-level, there was a drug store call Scot's (or Scottie's ... I can't remember). Parking was behind the building, as it should have been for that "Main Street" effect Shaker has yet to capture (beyond Shaker Square which is not longer within its borders).... In fact, the main entrance to the Bowling alley was from the rear, although there was a small stairwell entrance from the Chagrin side. It's ironic that Shaker Heights, the most rail transit friendly city in Ohio, has never quite got the mixed-use formula perfected like neighbor Cleveland Heights, which does it in several locations such as Coventry and Cedar Lee... Despite the Rapid Shaker, like most of greater Cleveland, foolishly bowed to the almighty auto when it rebuilt Chagrin-Lee-Avalon into Shakertowne Center, in the late 1980s ... and planners have regretted it ever since -- but figured it would be too expensive, and foolish to rebuild again. Shaker does have a few nice pockets of TOD apartments along the Van Aken/Blue Line Rapid around Lee Road and at the Lynnfield and Farnsleigh stations, however.