clvlndr

Sounds like all the pieces are falling into place, nicely. I just hope: a) Cleveland can get moving planning/building a new downtown station that, hopefully, will tie into the new MMPI convention center, and b) those nutcases petitoning against a Cincy terminal will be reigned in. They could screw things up for everybody, not just Cincy.

^Obviously Steve Pyles meant the 1st stop will (likely) be Puritas, not Berea, and of course he must not know that the Red Line is heavy and not light rail.

A similar thing happened to me on the Blue Line coming home on the 4th; a driver actually announced we had a red signal and we'd be moving as soon as the train ahead went into the E.55 Street yard and cleared the tracks... While a product of Eastern rail systems, and the Chicago L (they even have their automated/GPS voice programmed to announce problems), this is totally new to RTA where, traditionally, you'd sit for long periods w/ no comments from Rapid drivers (and some would even get surly if you'd ask) -- nothing is ruder... This is a very welcome change, indeed.

Oh, the free aspect...OK.

Just curious, for all the Ohio City area folks who want trolleys: there are tons of bus routes through this area; it's the throat RTA's West Side system, plus you have the Red Line serving the main/southern portion. Why is the need to extend the Trolley's? I'm not dogging the idea, just curious. I know the trolleys are interesting from a tourist POV, but when it turns to just getting back and forth conveniently, the current system is very good -- I usually transfer from the Blue/Green Rapid to the Red Line for a quick, 3 min trip. But when I've used the buses, I've never not received a seat.

I agree with you ... and Tim. These pie-in-the-sky proposals bore me. And we put things off into the future so no one will be accountable, or even remember, when the planners close up their blackboards and quietly slink away into the night. For once, I applaud Clevelanders for staying away from this conference in droves... and on top of everything, I'm in total agreement with the Greenies: relocating the Port to E. 55 near the clear Lake Erie waters of Gordon Park is a stupid idea. Greenies claim -- w/ some justification -- that a modest expansion north of no-man's land Browns Stadium could meet the ports needs well into the future. Yes, our public officials are a joke. If I just moved here from abroad and Cleveland was presented as Democratic politics in action, I'd be a Republican. The quality proposals: like housing, hotels, entertainment/retail and an aquarium are no closer than to realization than they were 10 years ago. Until developers are ready to put a shovel in the ground, I wish they'd give it a rest already. To the weary public, they're like the Boy who cried: Wolf.

^glad to see these guys in biz; an indy bookstore needs to occupy the space of the much-loved old store. Wish them luck... btw, I see construction activity in the abandoned City Buddha space a few doors down. Anyone know what's going on?

... or, what about routing, from the old, extant Shaker Rapid station over the Detroit-Superior Bridge, up Detroit. Cars could surface around W. 28th and travel thru the great/improving Gordon Square District (serving the just a-building Battery Park high density condo development), to Lake Ave. There, they could either continue along Detroit to the West Blvd Red Line station and terminate; or they could dogleg NW along Lake Ave to a terminal in huge, popular Edgewater Park. This would be a roughly 3 mile line and would score on many levels: - as a tourist trolley - as a working LRT line with a quick subway access to Public Square - as a connector of growing/trendy high-density areas like North Ohio City, Gordon Square/Battery Park (Det-Shoreway) and Edgewater. ... and as the West Side's 2nd rapid transit line, if I were RTA I'd terminate all W.25 and Lorain bus routes at the W. 25-Detroit subway station. Frankly, I think more of these lines should be terminated at the existing W. 25 Red Line station. RTA, historically from the old CTS, has been far to generous in allowing 1-seat bus rides into downtown, while bypassing rail heads like the W. 25-Ohio City station. Only 1 of these lines should reach downtown. The passengers from the other lines would have the choice of either transferring to the Red Line or the downtown bound bus line (perhaps the #22 from Lorain). It sure would save RTA a lot of fuel esp for an agency so hard up for cash. Any, I think a subway-surface from Tower City under the D-S bridge up Detroit should be examined. The beauty of this (similar to so many unrealized transit here) is that the old Shaker Station is in the northern most section of Tower City meaning it's closest to the D-S bridge (KJP has diagrammed this well in the past)... memory/observations tell me that an unimpeded path from the station to the bridge, along side Red/Waterfront Line track exists from Tower City -- at most, I think one parking ramp from street level would have to be eliminated. (boo-hoo)

You make a valid point, 327. We are farther ahead compared to similar cities, esp w/in Ohio. But for too long we've rested on the laurels of progressive predecessors who built and/or spearheaded rail transit and TOD growth: the Vans, Donald Hyde, Ron Tober, among them... We have much, but transit isn't supposed to be static; it's supposed to grow to meet the needs of its urban home -- if that home wants to be progressive... Of course many have addressed the need for increased state funding (a Joe C initiative) and true regional organization; as in beyond just Cuyahoga County... Frank has admirably preached economic cooperation of all area cities and towns (of course, then we had Eaton)... It would be nice if our Mayor would work with and advocate TOD... We note that, even in struggling Cleveland, the best, up & coming neighborhoods, though maybe not TOD themselves, share many TOD-type characteristics: Battery Park/Detroit Shoreway (esp Gordon Sq); Ohio City, Shaker Sq and Little Italy ... and of course, downtown (more residentially and, hopefully, increasingly commercially and business-wise). The Blue Line/Shaker Van Aken/Warrensville makeover should give a green light to extend and develop TOD. I know it's tougher for leaders to wrap their minds around using transit to save a truly dying area like North Randall (and hell, East Cleveland for that matter where heavy rail already exists)... but then we haven't faced such shared dire economic times since the Great Depression. A Blue Line extension split to serve both Chagrin Highlands and the old Randall Mall area could both enhance a growing (albeit in the wrong way) area and kick-start the rescue of the other.

Again, I've read hints of an MRN announcement around winter... Obviously Cleveland has be walloped by the credit crunch, but U.Circle seems the one area that's holding its own... Hopefully, the promising, recent starts by Coltman 27 and Circle 118 will help jump start Uptown. With the Art Museum expansion, UH building and these 2 new condos, U. Circle is, dare I say... hot right now.

I hope the Shaker-Warrensville Center TOD spurs officials to extend the Blue Line beyond just a couple thousand feet -- but knowing this area's historical anti-rail mentality, I won't hold my breath... Certainly a Blue Line branch to Randall could really help rejuvenate that deeply depressed area. There's obviously right of way all the way there down the center of Northfield. If Mayor Jackson's initiative to pull the region together, he and others should support things like high-densityTOD in places like N. Randall, that really need it... ... of course, then again, we can't even get Frank to push for TOD along the Red Line which, to date, only has TOD in the form of a half block of Eco Village --- too busy fronting for the Opportunity Corridor, I s'pose.

^Ah, that's much better/makes sense. Thanks, JetDog.

Falanga acknowledged Thursday that the drawn-out slog of picking a site and getting the $425 million project started has been frustrating, and said the intense public scrutiny and skepticism of the developments "took us a little by surprise... The process to get where we are has been more complicated than anything we've been involved with," he said as he fielded written questions from an audience of about 200. "The time is costing us a little bit," Falanga added. Welcome to Cleveland, Mr. Falanga. It's sadly how too often biz is done here. Try do hang with us...

I actually think the rubber-tired Miami People Mover is cool; goes everywhere downtown, interfaces with the Metro rapid transit and, most importantly, is FREE! I actually think the rubber-tired Miami People Mover is cool; goes everywhere downtown, interfaces with the Metro rapid transit and, most importantly, is FREE! The rubber tired trains are all but silent overhead, cutting totally counter to Kucinich's (when he was Boy Mayor) scare talk of ugly, noisy Els like in downtown Chicago. Worse yet, the Feds were prepared to practically subsidize the whole thing, but we thumbed our noses at them. Kucinich, I think, called this Federal tyranny. A shame.

RTA also seems to be experiencing a similar 'slow zone' on the Blue/Green lines on the high bridges btw Woodhill and 79th St. While on the shuttle bus heading to the CIFF, I saw RTA doing trackwork near that area so I thought that would be one of the last places the Rapid would have problems. Does anybody know what exactly the problem is? The RTA exact-change fair policy noted in the Karen Farkas PD piece is a nice move by RTA -- Lord knows, riders deserve a break like this when they honestly don't have the exact change -- but one that probably shouldn't be given wide pub lest RTA's prepared to deal with slick, supposed fare-misplacers out to beat the system... just a thought. On another note, I know RTA recently altered schedules recently, including the Rapid, but what I didn't know, and don't recall any comments (either from RTA or UO Red Line riders) is that the Red Line has been reduced to 20-min base intervals (down from the usual 15 minute base still employed on the Blue-Green trunk from TC to Shaker Sq)... It doesn't hit you until you're standing waiting on the platform for, say, an Airport train as I was the other day in TC, and people are milling about waiting... To me, 15 mins is the outer limit for any true "rapid transit" system, otherwise it becomes a schedule-dependent commuter rail system. The budget cutting in light of high-fuel costs and under-subsidization from Ohio are old news. But why would RTA cut service on the Red Line Rapid which, over the last few years, has been its fastest growing division, patron-wise (w/ the possible exception of the Fancy, new fangled Health Line, which is still kind of a new toy to some people)? Wouldn't you want to hold service at current levels rather than move to discourage new riders?

The Inner Belt bridge repair is critical, as are the Riverbed Street and Flats East Bank rebuilds... But to hell with money for the stupid Opportunity Farce Freeway. It's not needed and, in fact, will harm the City.

All these signs do is block the view out the window.

Cleveland has a compact downtown area so the idea of hotels being "close" to the Conv Ctr. really is a non-issue. Also, most cities Cleveland's size or larger have at least one, maybe more hotels of 600 or more rooms; many with 800 or more rooms. Cleveland's largest hotel is the Renaissance on Public Square at around 490 rooms -- and its a 90 year-old building! Also, large conventions prefer cities/convention centers with a large mega-size hotel attached, not just "nearby" -- esp in a city with killer winters like Cleveland ... again, some folks don't want to recognize that Cleveland winters make a couple blocks seem like 10. And believe me, conventions look at things like that... ... Add to the fact that Cleveland still falls way below the big boys in terms of downtown hotel rooms, so for so many developers to actually talk like their going to fight the large new hotel we desperately need, is unbelievable... So I'm trying to really see what the big fuss over this new MMPI convention center is all about -- aside from the obvious fact of the association of MMPI itself... But aside from that: it's still going to be an undersized conv. ctr with little room for expansion; it won't bring us any new hotel... hell, it's not even going to encourage an attached new Amtrak/commuter/RTA station... I'm sorry, our simply remodeling the old center that's supposedly "near" 800 rooms won't really excite the convention industry.

Studies have shown that a big-time hotel will attract more and bigger conventions and attractions which, in turn, will help all the hoteliers and not just the mega-hotel itself. Yet in true Cleveland fashion, developers, who can't see past yesterday, would rather than protect their turf and fight the mega hotel we desperately need (and that all cities we like to compare ourselves to already have) and stick with a bunch of small-sized hotels scattered around downtown... This MMPI convention center expansion should have been a golden opportunity for us to finally develop a 1st class, major, true convention-sized hotel... but in the end, we're still going to be shunned by big events/conventions because of a lack of hotel rooms... This backwards thinking is just one more reason why the City will remain perpetually in rear-view-mirror/catching up mode compared to other major cities. :whip: :whip: :shoot: :shoot:

I don't know if the Jacobs Group is still the lead developer on the Chagrin Highlands, but when the Blue Line was proposed to be extended to that area, the Jacobs Group was contacted to see if they were interested in pursuing Chagrin Highlands as a TOD. They weren't, so RTA didn't see much point to extend the Blue Line to it. That seems a pretty lame excuse. Why can't transit influence future development out there? CH is far from being built out, even figuring a built Eaton "campus", there's plenty of growth room; there isn't any apts or high-density residential development of any kind yet, so why can't the Blue Line influence it? And what about all the students traveling back 'n forth from Cleveland and Tri-C East? The Blue line would stop at Tri-C East's door... And we still have the I-271 exit right there at Harvard to funnel downtown, Shaker Hts/Shaker Square and airport travelers right into a rapid transit parking garage... Meanwhile, Shaker Heights is throwing its weight behind the project to finally reconfigure the Van Aken/Warrensville intersection and develop TOD... and extend the Blue Line-- with RTA, as usual, not taking a proactive lead but instead just being along for the ride. ... I have hoped for years (and written the Mayor's and CPC offices) that Cleveland would take the lead in developing TOD, esp in our depressed econ climate, while effectively utilizing a community asset: the Rapid (at least, I think it is anyway). Baltimore has it's Hunt Valley LRT extended to a suburban office, commercial retail development that's even more sprawling, and less appealing than Beachwood/CH. Seems like with transit, and other positive urban initiatives: while other cities find ways to make them work, here in Cleveland we come up with lame excuses to justify doing nothing.

No talk involving the current Amtrak station that I'm aware of. The Amtrak station would be expanded to handle 3-C Corridor trains, but would not involve a direct pedestrian connection to the south. There has been talk of restarting the planning for the North Coast Transportation Center but, again, nothing serious that I'm aware of. Hard to believe with all the publicity both MMPI on the Mall and the Amtrak 3-C corridor has been getting. For once in this town, I wish our leaders could plan so one hand knows what the other is doing... The nice-looking, though (really) unnecessary Stokes Fed. Courthouse tower blocking passenger train traffic into the station where it belongs: Tower City, is one example... And seemingly RTA's rush to build a separate W.150 Rapid station w/o seemingly any coordination w/ the just-announced plan to build an Amtrak 3-C station there, is another.

^as Spoc would say: fascinating... The 3-C corridor would be an excellent test case for electrification (although, I'm not sure if it's all NS routing)... Anyway, any one of the Ohio Hub routes would be good test cases for the wires (save, maybe, the Buffalo/Toronto leg b/c of the light population, long distance and little relation, travelwise, btw Cleve and Buffalo)... The other routes out of Cleveland have sizable metro areas close in distance w/ significant passenger and freight traffic. Sure would be nice if Obama could give the railroads and extra nudge by giving tax breaks for per-mile electrification... strong case for helping the environment, much like FTA's transit fare/subsidy program.

I sometimes wonder whether Roldo's funded by the Medina County chamber of commerce.

I'd count Ohio City. Even though the immediate area around the station is somewhat forlorn, it's only one block to the core of (downtown) of Ohio City; New York subways often don't do much better than that... I think the Wolstein's Flats East Bank project will be TOD... that is, if RTA hasn't killed off the Waterfront Line by the time it's built... Also, since Eaton's building in Chagrin Highlands, see: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,17327.300.html there could be TOD potential if RTA acted to extend the Blue Line from it's new terminal in Northfield after Shaker Hts extends it a couple thousand feet in the next few years, and... oh, silly me. I forgot, RTA's gen. mgr; you know the guy, the one who's killed, fought and/or badmouthed every rail expansion proposal (including Amtrak's 3-Cs) since he's been in office ... right now, he's preoccupied lending his support by sitting on the steering board helping plan the new urban freeway (aka the "opportunity corridor")... so RTA, I'm sure isn't interested. Our transit chief probably should be more interested in freeway building/expansion as opposed to, ... er, transit, ... right?

Sadly, Eaton's like too many corporate local citizens that could barely give a damn about Cleveland... 'scuse me, we should be grateful they didn't bolt the region entirely.