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Maybe I'm off base here, and someone can help out... but RTA's poised to spend $9.5M in stimulus funds to rebuild the Puritas Rapid Sta. But that project was already on the table, as were other station rebuilds in the past, and they received FTA capital matching funds in X % amount. Shouldn't RTA be using the Obama money for what it's name applies: stimulus -- building new, innovative transit projects that can potentially serve more people? -- ... like the 3Cs Amtrak project moving forward: service that didn't exist yesterday, as opposed to reshuffling money to the already-targeted rebuild of a heavily used station. I really don't like BRT, but I could see BRT more as a 'stimulus' project as opposed to a preexisting Rapid rebuild. Yes, I know the article said the Puritas money, once envisioned, had dried up so RTA turned to Obama's Stimulus funds, but still something doesn't seem quite right... Preferably, I'd like to see stimulus projects for rail expansion, like the Blue line to the Highlands or helping commuter rail projects materialize, like the West Shore Commuter which seems to be moving along. (Of course, we tend to know RTA's attitude toward rail expansion, so that's probably a nonstarter)

{Note: yes, this City Paper (Pittsburgh's version of Cleveland's Scene) is nearly 4 years old, but it echoes Cleveland's historical struggle/failure to build a Dual Hub subway up its spine, w/ Pittsburgh officials settling on the 1.5 mile (very expensive, rapidly progressing) North Shore Connector tunnel under the river many Pittsburghers say will be a waste -- can you say: RTA Waterfront Line?} http://www.pittsburghcitypaper.ws/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A29152 SEPTEMBER 29, 2005 Lost Tracks The planned T extension to the North Shore is the last surviving remnant of bigger, better plans BY JULIE MICKENS For years, Pittsburghers have derided the North Shore Connector "T" extension as The Little Engine That Shouldn't. The engine that shouldn't just connect Downtown with the city's two new stadiums. That shouldn't cross the Allegheny River by tunneling beneath it. That shouldn't be built at all.

I think it's great Dan Gilbert is speaking out on this and, of course, I agree with him. I just wish he'd spoken out sooner.... Is he motivated, in part, at least by self interest as Q owner who would benefit from a Tower City MMPI location? Absolutely, but so what? Can't we for once in this town stop being preoccupied with who's getting what and focus on what's best for Cleveland? I think it's too late and the Mall's a done deal, and that's too bad b/c Dan is hitting on the same points that Tower City advocates (present co. included) have been saying all along (and being a true Detroiter, he's not even focused on the Airport Rapid connection like others are). I'm not surprised that Litt and other Mall advocates are ignoring the excellent, already connected (as in "indoors" "no snow") arena the Q could represent to MMPI. People are still mainly motivated by FCE hatred and nostalgia. And you can't deny Gilbert's considerably greater stature (well, not physically anyway) and gravitas than the other biz and political players in this long-running soap opera. He's an outsider. He's a 40-something who's built his success on his own (no daddy's $$ like Wolstein, Miller/Ratner and others). And his viewpoint from the context of stuggling downtown Detroit is heartfelt and ought not be blown off... And even as a Detroiter, he's created downtown Cleveland jobs, and turned our perpetually sorry/mediocre Cavs into the NBA's Gold Standard.... (just look at the "success" of another daddy's-money-owned team playing at the concrete bowl on the lake). And you can quibble with the PD's map all you want, the Mall site IS disconnected and spreads development of our thinly-populated downtown rather than concentrating it. And no, the PD has not silenced Steve Litt. It's just that when ever another viewpoint opposing the Mall arises, Mall backers cry foul... ... very Limbaugh/Republican of you.

In fairness, I DO think Krumholz is generally a good man. He's dedicated his public life to advocating and bettering the lives of the poor, and I can never rag on a guy for that.... he just doesn't know jack about public transit and I wish he'd keep his silence on it.

Maybe...

I don't get your point. If I had the expertise and position, it'd have been done long ago. Are you suggesting we don't looking into upgrade our rail system or extend it if it's going to cost a few shekels? Is that you're approach to improvement projects for Cleveland in general? You and Joe Calabrese must read from the same playbook. If we can spend $Millions on worthwhile capital Rapid Station improvements to stations that are, in the end, upgrades to stations that a functioning, why not build an upgrade (with the FTA footing much of the bill as a capital project) that would bring the Rapid closer to more people, including new residents at Ave Dist... ... you've totally lost me. Where is the money coming from and can you legally clear the tracks? Understand now? MTS, I understand the intricate rules of building over active freight railway tracks. But if you look at the new planned Puritas station, passengers will walk over the busy freight tracks. As for money? Spend capital budget money and apply for an FTA match I'm sure. Also, RTA could try and get creative (a la Detroit's plan on a smaller scale) w/ a public-private buy-in for landholders (like Doubletree Hotel) and others, who may directly benefit from such a station restructure.... It even could encourage TOD development in the area, albeit much smaller than Davenport Bluffs. It's just another example of our leaders waiting for something to happen rather than being proactive -- and developers waiting for the other guy to make the 1st move.... And as for RTA seriously promoting rail transit use? ... well....

I don't get your point. If I had the expertise and position, it'd have been done long ago. Are you suggesting we don't looking into upgrade our rail system or extend it if it's going to cost a few shekels? Is that you're approach to improvement projects for Cleveland in general? You and Joe Calabrese must read from the same playbook. If we can spend $Millions on worthwhile capital Rapid Station improvements to stations that are, in the end, upgrades to stations that a functioning, why not build an upgrade (with the FTA footing much of the bill as a capital project) that would bring the Rapid closer to more people, including new residents at Ave Dist... ... you've totally lost me.

I don't know what Webster's you use, but it's obviously different than mine... - 1996. Channel 3 ran a negative report on the new Waterfront line, w/ Krumholz griping he had to walk uphill from the E. 9th stop to his City Hall office, and that he Loop bus dropped him at the door -- nevermind that NK originated his trips from Shaker and would've had a 1-seat ride to E. 9th over the WFL as opposed to getting off the Rapid at Tower City, going upstairs and walking outside to catch the Loop bus. - 2000, 01(?)... EcoCity Cleveland, the leading green/pro-transit/TOD/urban grass roots org in Cleveland, ran an extensive article studying the 5 commuter rail line proposal (generated under Ron Tober's RTA)... Unfortunately, good-hearted EcoCity turned to CSU and Krumholz as their key expert 'consultant'. The end-conclusion of EcoCity's study? ... that despite 2.5+ million residents, Greater Cleveland overall lacks the density to justify spending for any commuter rail... Surprise! Why would a great group like EcoCity turn to NK as their point man in the report, with almost no or any rebuttal? ... sure sounds like a 'guru' in my book. Aren't you guys agreeing? We agree he shouldn't be, but I disagree that he isn't, ... or at least hasn't been in the past. And when our leading pro-transit group turns to him... That's one of our BIGGEST problems in Cleveland, we empower people who either a) have an interest or agenda in doing the area harm, or b) are good hearted, but are wrongheaded/don't have a clue... I'm not sure where exactly Mr. Krumholz falls, but either way, he's destructive.

With Avenue District condos coming on line @ E.12 & St. Clair, and the revamped streetscape probably producing a more lively, ped-friendly area, including the the newly rechristened Doubletree Hotel at Lakeside, it seems RTA should seriously look into the idea of connecting the track-level Waterfront Line's South Harbor terminal with the E.12th street-level area, which would serve Ave Dist. Even though we lost a great opportunity to create a huge TOD when Kassouf's Davenport Bluffs condos collapsed into the ugly FBI and Channel 3 buildings, it doesn't mean the WFL South Harbor terminal still can't be made to be useful (other than being marketed by RTA as solely a place for Muny Lot/Browns tailgating prior to hopping a train to the Big Game). It sure seems rather pointless to have E. 12 just dead-end into nowhere next to the Doubletree, when a rather easy, relatively inexpensive connection can be made to the Rapid below with elevators, stairs and even es callators.... why not?

Excellent. Great start for this quiet part of downtown. Really excited about the mixed-use prospect for a quality (Italian?) restaurant at the curb. I sure hope Zaremba can build on this quality project and maybe help revive the Galleria across the street.

This is awsome... So great to see the Square & Lower Euclid slowly come back as the people place of my youth.

I don't know what Webster's you use, but it's obviously different than mine... - 1996. Channel 3 ran a negative report on the new Waterfront line, w/ Krumholz griping he had to walk uphill from the E. 9th stop to his City Hall office, and that he Loop bus dropped him at the door -- nevermind that NK originated his trips from Shaker and would've had a 1-seat ride to E. 9th over the WFL as opposed to getting off the Rapid at Tower City, going upstairs and walking outside to catch the Loop bus. - 2000, 01(?)... EcoCity Cleveland, the leading green/pro-transit/TOD/urban grass roots org in Cleveland, ran an extensive article studying the 5 commuter rail line proposal (generated under Ron Tober's RTA)... Unfortunately, good-hearted EcoCity turned to CSU and Krumholz as their key expert 'consultant'. The end-conclusion of EcoCity's study? ... that despite 2.5+ million residents, Greater Cleveland overall lacks the density to justify spending for any commuter rail... Surprise! Why would a great group like EcoCity turn to NK as their point man in the report, with almost no or any rebuttal? ... sure sounds like a 'guru' in my book.

Don't recall much about the people mover and it may not have been worthwhile. I do know that Krumholz is a notorious rail-hater. He single-handedly lead the charge to kill off RTA's Green Line-to-I 271 mode-mixer project. He's been quoted as saying the we'd be better off converting the Blue & Green lines to buses. Figures in Cleveland he's held up as some kind of transit guru.

Jerry, I know you said said the Little Italy station relocation/rebuild wasn't shovel ready for Stimulus $$. Any update as to when ground may be broken for that important project?

We can parse as much as we want -- sure not ALL Republicans are bad and wrong on Rail, for example. But at the end of the day, Steve LaTourrette are the exceptions for the party, and hold no sway. The Radical Right still controls Republican thought; they continue to perpetuate knee jerk, anti-intellectual reactionary Rush Limbaugh/John Boehner policy. As Bill Maher noted, it's not like the days of Bill Buckley who, even if you didn't like him, you had to debate hiim on a tough intellectual level... no more; not these scare-tactic, Big Lie, anti-intellectual clowns... Let's stop playing ostrich and being so benevolent -- and ultimately acting as enablers for stupidity... ... for those enlightened Republican UOers who are pro-positive infrastructure projects like mass transit and, here, 3-C Amtrak, the question remains: why are you still Republicans. You're ideas have no shot w/ the "Party of NO" whose leaders would prefer Obama, and ultimately the country, to fail since they are not in power... At least have some balls, take heat and stand away from these jerks like John McCain's daughter Megan has done w/ the temerity to criticize Ann "Which" Coulter... Stop protecting an ideal that isn't there and, at least, stop 'your party' from continuing dragging this State and the country down in ways voters so soundly rejected Nov. 4th -- like stopping something so needed and worthwhile as 3-C rail. To ignore the fact Republicans are largely responsible for such regression is to be, well, ostriches.

Right now, I wish Republicans and Republican types would just go somewhere, sit down and shut the hell up; b/c as a party; as a mindset, they absolutely nothing positive to offer on any level, let alone re rail and transit.

I would love to see the type of LRT extension from the Red Line as was discussed earlier in this thread. One thing I think is missed in the eagerness and supposed relative cheapness of BRT compared to LRT, is that LRT extension would benefit much more by tying passengers and equipment into the existing rail transit network. Riders into downtown from Parma could get, say, a 1-seat ride to Shaker Square or maybe Univ. Circle, if either dual-height equipment were used or, like E. 34th and E. 55th, low platforms could be installed at Red Line Stations. BRT travelers, on the other hand, must transfer to Rapid Transit by going outdoors (we know of Cleveland's weather) to reach such popular places, including the Airport. Also, BRT may be attractive in some ways as you move further from downtown simply because the tightness and density of streets lightens. But as we're seeing already with the Health Line, BRT in downtown is somewhat awkward and confusing to drivers, who are redused to a 1 outer lane. Plus, I feel lower Euclid is less pedestrian friendly, now, than before the Health Line. Yes, there are more businesses and apartments springing up on Euclid, but those were in the works well before BRT was finalized or up and running. BRT just seems like it's created a psychological barrier in the middle of Euclid, esp where those semi-high platform stations are. I'm not totally poo-pooing the Health Line in this respect, because as I said, Euclid is coming back nicely... But remember, even though our current Rapid system still lacks adequate distribution around downtown, it still has benefits from an underground/off street terminal to which train egress and ingress is speedy due to rapid rail's traffic/grade separated approaches.

Shaker Square: a nat'l treasure? Letter-to-the-Editor, today's Philadelphia Inquirer-- it was reacting to on an extensive Inky article last week on SEPTA El's 69th St terminal just across the Philly border in Upper Darby, it's history and present problems; I'll post it when I get a hold of it. Letters: 69th Street could learn from Cleveland There is no reason to consign the 69th Street business district to oblivion ("Community's unending struggle to stay vital," Tuesday). On the boundary of Cleveland and Shaker Heights, Ohio, is Shaker Square, a thriving town center built between 1927 and 1929. Like 69th Street in Upper Darby, Shaker Square was built at the junction of rail transit lines, and is now a desirable place to live among young professionals. A major focus of contemporary urban planning is the concept of Transit-Oriented Development, which supports a walkable community with access to higher-quality public transportation as an alternative to so many cars. Shaker Square and 69th Street were built as TODs in their era, and they remain the antithesis of suburban sprawl today. Upper Darby doesn't need to reinvent the wheel; it just needs to fix the wheel. William A. Ritzler Pitman http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20090405_Letters__69th_Street_could_learn_from_Cleveland.html

That damned, farce so-called Opportunity Cooridor raises it's ugly head again. It's the source of a ton of urban evil in this town that's only beginning to manifest itself. The destruction of this gorgeous, historic building is an absolute travesty which, like the joke OC which is a primary genesis in the OCPM's destruction, is happening with disturbingly little public outrage or comment. Have we become so desperate as a city that our oft self-centered power brokers, like Brian Smith & the Clinic, can have their way with our formerly great city without us barely lifting a finger?

^I like those R160 cars. A tad sterile, but functionally efficient. Many systems are moving to digital station displays like this, esp commuter rail... I did like those 80s (?) MTA cars with those silver-y walls and faux wood-grain panels. They seemed to be the workhorse of the subways.

:clap: to RTA for the extended Rapid hours (all lines) for the Rock Hall induction ceremonies tonight... Let's hope RTA continues to be more rider conscious like this (and like postponing the balance of the Blue/Green line rebuild to accommodate this as well as Film Festival riders). Thanks for the info, Jerry.

I know I've asked before, and I'm sure commuter service is being looked at around the big cities, notably Cleveland. I also know that last time I looked at All Aboard Ohio's webpage, commuter stops were listed, like NE Cleveland, SE Cleve, etc... Has there been any more thought about some, even light commuter service and ideas where station stops may be? One in Cleve stop that should be looked at is Euclid/E. 55 "Midtown" about where that old elevated Pennsy station used to be. Both intercity and commuter trains would serve the Health Line with quick, direct trips to places like the Clinic or CSU...

OMG, MyTwoSense... comparing Patterson to Obama!? Go to your room with no dinner tonight and sit in the corner!... Seriously though, I don't know what kind of mess Spitzer left other than NYState embarrassment. I'd like to be fair to Patterson -- both as a minority (sadly only one of 2 guvs of color) and as a legally blind man, but you've got to admit, he's said and done some really dumb things; most notably torpedoing highly-honorable Caroline Kennedy's run for Hillary's seat... anyway, back to our regularly-scheduled other states/rail thread...

Yeah, this guy's a total joke. The State really needed relief after the Spitzer fiasco... and they got Patterson... ugh!

Theodore!!