clvlndr

Edgewater's my fave West Side hood by a mile -- it literally has it all... Admittedly, though, I wish Cleveland's line stretched so those grand Gold Coast towers were w/in... Then again, these 2 great side-by-side neighborhoods make political boundaries seem pointless because, really, its just one seamless, awesome residential area -- just w/ different colored street signs. Who the hell needs Chicago's North Shore, eh?

Wow, very nice. Being the East Sider I am, my view of OB is simply modest frame houses. This area's is a hidden gem... Cleveland's amazing in its neighborhood diversity.

The low 600 figure surprises me... but not totally. We're a medium-size, low density city (w/ tons of burb-sprawl) that's lost 1/2 its pop, has a struggling downtown and a 50-year-od Red Line that has almost zilch TOD development around stations + no downtown distributor subway to boot. We built the Red Line then, more or less, have walked away from it. ... and, oh yeah, local pols, bigwigs and the misguided 'major' newspaper are racing to build a parallel "opportunity corridor" freeway that will siphon off even more Red Line riders... hey, makes sense to me.

Agree w/ some comments about the new map: P's need to be added at Van Aken stops and I'd put bus routes back in, perhaps discretely. Bus routes are very helpful unless RTA makes the map interactive (the Boston MBTA maps a beaut; very informational) -- I admit, the bus routes can make the map seem somewhat cluttered -- but I'd still have them in some form... ... Also, I'm not wild about the graphics: this map (though obviously not to scale) looks twisted, distorted. It's simply bad graphic art compared to the usual more balanced ones depicting the east and west side legs -- more like the similar ones on the Shaker and Airport/Windermere platforms in Tower City.

And you've gotta love how the PD touts as some widely renowned expert Norm Krumholz, perhaps the leading rail hater in Greater Cleveland; a man who has as his negative trophy the extremely logical Green Line Mode Mixer, 1.5 mile extension to I-271 he helped kill 30 years ago ... Such a trophy belongs to Albert S. Porter's scuttled downtown subway -- Porter, no doubt, a Krumholz hero... Should anyone be surprised ol' Norm favors shoving a highway right through the car-less, poor East Side? Amazing people are buying this crap hook, line and sinker with no objection... Cleveland: you get what you pay for (including who you elect).

^Good find... I'm glad Hopkins is doing this. I still think (and I know you're not disagreeing) though, RTA could do it's part to promote the line MORE at Hopkins if they truly want people to use it. More people know about Chicago's L and the possibility of service to its airports, unlike ours... But CTA actively promotes its trains with billboards... at least at O'Hare. BTW, in the food court, Chicago's chamber of commerce has a great video wall extolling great Chi-town highlights... including CTA's L, as well...

Predictable: PD's going all out for this silly road w/ a front page, in-depth advocacy for it. I just some one would point out (as I have to them) that such a road will actually HURT the Red Line as West and East Siders, now using the Rapid directly through this corridor, will be more likely drive (and not share their seats with THEM). Maybe, just maybe, a focus on TOD around the existing (and could-be built) Red, Blue-Green stations in this area might be a sounder, urban approach... ... and most importantly that St. Paul where this glowing example is hoisted by the PD, unlike Cleveland, DOESN'T HAVE RAIL TRANSIT AT ALL!! http://blog.cleveland.com/plaindealer/2008/07/opportunity_corridor.html Me? I’ll hold to my belief that there was some kind of deal cut with West Side judges of Juvenile Court who’s new mega-building complex is rising at approx E. 100 & Quincy (2 blocks from a rebuilt Red Line station), to push this road through in exchange for them giving up their outmoded Quadrangle digs for the heart of the ghetto. Note, the proposed road feeds right into E105 (right next to the aforementioned Rapid station) Also, you can bet the all-powerful Clinic is working behind the scenes to push this freeway/road too. As I’ve said, show me just ONE rail transit (as in NOT ECP) project the PD, and pols ever push in this town as they’re pushing this stupid road. :shoot: :shoot: :whip: :whip:

Thanks Jerry, for the info about 2-car Blue/Green trains. I sure hope the 1-driver/2-car engineering comes along soon because 1-car, rush hour crowding is really getting bad... I'm wondering if, for now, RTA should drop back to the Blue/Green rush hour schedule it once had: 2-car trains every 12 mins, rather than the 1-car trains every 10 mins, as it is now? As for fare jumpers, RTA would be wise to post security on the Shaker Square inbound platform during rush periods, particularly. Over time, esp with the unusually large groups that get both on and off there, I've seen literally hundreds of fare jumpers slide out the back door amongst the crowd... RTA really is losing a bunch of fares this way, I'm sure.

^^^ As for the Hopkin's/Red Line signage issue, I agree, the sign as it is seems pretty self explanatory that it's a train line, esp w/ the universal "train" emblem... Problem is, the sign doesn't stand out. The one in the photo is, if I recall, right at the station entrance which is down the escalator off the baggage claim area. Thus, those who see this sign either have the Rapid as a destination already or are heading to the short term parking lot. Those signs in the core area of the airport tend to blur along with the forest of directional signs, along w/ the Rental Car shuttle, Parking, Ground Transportation, etc... RTA does a poor job of making the Rapid stand out. CTA has big pictures of its L and advertisements for using it once you get off the plane. RTA does none of that. In fact, RTA seems rather mum about the Rapid in general. In none of the travel mags or the Phone books do you see any Rapid Transit maps, and in those that have any rail at all (like the little downtown only maps), the Rapid is mentioned as simply the Waterfront Line or the Red Line (to the airport) -- then to further muddy things up the E-Line is mentioned as a "Trolley" when, of course, it's really a bus!!!! ... At that, I'd agree w/ MTS, this is strictly local insider stuff... It's almost as if RTA's trying to hide our rail service from visitors -- I know it's not, but sometimes it seems that way. I've known a number of business people and other visitors who've come to Cleveland for years yet didn't know we had a rapid rail system...

^^I'm pumped that the Mayfield/Little Italy station is FINALLY going to be built after all these years -- and it's even going to have modest TOD to go along w/ it, in the form of Mayfield Lofts which went before the CPC a few weeks ago. Hopefully, the mixed use plan at Euclid/Mayfield/E.115 stays on track... it's suddenly gone eerily quiet after a lot of build up a year or so ago... With the new Mayfield Red Line Station and ECP coming on line, you'd think now would be the time to get that project moving again...

It’s a nice article, but the comparison to Cleveland isn't quite exact. Chicago, which has a much more advanced transit network than Cleveland's, wouldn't think of putting BRT in a major corridor as a rapid rail substitute as Cleveland is. Chicago's BRT proposals are for substitute lines not primary lines. Boston's Silver Line-BRT is more along the lines of Chicago's supplemental (to Boston's T rail system) approach, as well, not like Cleveland's. Unfortunately, Cleveland decided to build on the cheap and build ECP/BRT rather than the subway it should have built as Atlanta did and as (considerably smaller) Pittsburgh has done and is expanding underneath its major river.

^will do... outta here... have a great 4th, folks!

It seems that, since they bought the expensive thing in the late 80s, RTA has never completely got a handle on those in-the-cab signals which is supposed to keep trains safe (although there's been a couple Red Line crashes since). The sysemt often slows trains and drivers, often whom don't seem very experienced, jerk, lurch and slam the brakes sometimes bringing standing passengers to their knees... This latest problem on the viaduct, I'm unaware of; but it's not like issues I've seen over the years on other stretches of track.

^^ I wish I could (I'm not punking out, really, cause your idea is good)... Somebody needs to counter this besides us UOers cause, as we know, the PD usually hasn't a clue and frequently operates at odds with Cleveland's good. If you read everything in this town other than UO's board you'd think everyone in Cleveland is in lockstep on this... fact is, though, every pol and media source does seem to be... ... which is why this city is in the shape it's in (don't get me started; I'm heading for a plane)...

Does RTA ever use 3-car trains during super-crush periods on the West Side (where, as far as I know, all stations can accomodate trains that long)? It would make sense to me... ... also, no one ever addressed the issue of use of some 2-car blue/green line rush hour runs esp w/ the "gas" induced crowding.

Freight trains!!?? As far as I know, they don't share track w/ RTA (except, I guess, in connections to deliver train equipment on and off the line)... I'm as confused as you by her statement.

Quickie detour: is this woman also hampering the West Shore commuter rail? ... back to MM/CC.

It's amazing how, in this town, people won't stop at anything to build the Clark Freeway in whatever form: the (so-called) OC, or the Shaker Blvd extension. They simply won't rest... And the gall to come up w/ BS like it will help poor residents who don't own cars, or it will "save" University Circle from monumental, choking traffic (as if its like 42nd & Broadway in Manhattan, NOT!)... Worse, is that gullible Clevelanders just eat it up acting like this crock is somehow a lifeline for the city... Sheesh!! Hey, I'll lay down in front of the 1st bulldozer... um, right behind you, Big Guy. :-D

Huh? I'm trying to make sense of your point. You love sprawl? You dislike Shaker? What is it?

^No question, noozer. I just wish the article -- otherwise very upbeat, esp viz the Passenger Rail Investment Act -- had not posited the irrational NIMBY fears of rail routing near towns and "their backyards" as a problem. The problem was the PEOPLE not the rail route... A better approach would have been to examine their mindset and how it’s obsolete and not anything that realistic should (I sure hope not) arise to block the Ohio Hub. As for insurance, it's often an issue, but transit agencies persevere. When I lived in DC, at times it seemed like VA-Railway Express would never materialize because of battles with the RR over insurance. ... but, today, we have a successful commuter rail in No.Va, and I believe it's expanding... We sometimes here in Ohio (not you, of course) look at these obstacles as insurmountable and are easily deterred. We must look though (as I'm sure AAO is) at the lessons learned in No. Va and elsewhere as to the issue of insurance.... It would be nice if Ohio would, for once, act and not react to out-of-control petrol. But, as long as we get state/local passenger rail, I won't quibble w/ how we get it.

Huh!? Isn't local service the point? I thought the purpose of rail was serving towns not for it to avoid them? The writer presents this NIMBY foolishness as a legitimate "problem". I know we must be patient with people to a degree, but if we begin seriously coddling this kind of thinking, serious passenger rail will continue to be a dream in this wayward state.

^ MTS, way to represent for Shaker Square!!!! ... btw Jerry, isn't it about time RTA either junk, or at least downsize, the use of the Route NUMBERS for the Rapid Transit lines? It's confusing to newcomers; I mean how does one explain what a Route 67A, worse yet, a 67AX?? Why not just stick to Red, Blue, Green and Waterfront, and leave it at that? Those old route numbers are a relic from yesteryear and only serve to confuse.

I understand your thinking and, in fact, transit-in-the-freeway is what Chicago has done to replace and extend its CTA L lines (in one case, with the L riding on the surface parallel to the current Eisenhower Exp). But our RTA Red Line does not need extension or relocation from this area (esp w/ ECP going on line soon), as it is grade separated and doesn't interfere w/ street traffic – and there are no live 3rd rails endangering residents on the street surface as was apparently the case re the Eisenhower/Blue Line relocation (a situation that still exists at the ends of a few current L lines). So putting the Red Line in the middle of the Opportunity Corridor roadway is counterintuitive to developing walkable, TOD districts, because the high-speed roadway discourages pedestrians and pushes potential development away from transit stations. And I won’t even get into the fact the latest OC proposal has the road cutting through residential areas. There’s just nothing sensible or good about this project only for the select suburbanites to speed cross-town faster. KJP is correct in noting the outmoded-ness of OC planning (as in 5 decades late!), juxtaposed in the current $4.00+/gallon, soon-to-be $150/barrel for crude oil… Can someone please hit Frank Jackson's snooze alarm? I tend to like Frank, but why is he pushing this baby so hard when so many "Forgotten Triangle" residents don't even own cars (and can't afford to)??

Believe me, ODOT and the City are going to find a way to get this stupid road done before 1 inch of rapid transit, commuter rail or new Amtrak goes into operation in this City and State.