clvlndr

^^ Kansas City's city council should be impeached en masse on the grounds of group stupidity.

Jerry indicated, some time ago, POP wouldn't be extended to the Blue/Green -- too many vending machines (expensive; what if one/more break down) for too many, lightly-used station stops, if I recall RTA's reasoning. Although I noted to him Baltimore's Light Rail also has a lot of station stops, too, and still has POP/vending machines... I believe Shaker's Breda cars, now, can only be used as single units. But even though I'm no electrical engineer, seems like these cars could be rewired so one woman could operate a 2-car train... If it were me, I'd reconfigure the Breda LRT cars and extend POP through the Rapid rail and BRT system. It's confusing enough meshing Blue/Green's historical Pay Enter-Eastbound/Pay Leave-Westbound with the current Red Line Pay-Enter system when one transfers btw the 2 systems. Throwing POP into the mix on the Red Line/BRT alone seems to invite a host of problems.

Correctamundo.

^ Jerry, while I understand your point, I tend to agree with MyTwoSense. (MTS, I thought the old, 2-car rush hour frequency was every 12 mins until RTA, around 2001, scaled back to 1-car but increased frequencies to every 10 mins – which I’ve never liked, not the least of which is the greater congestion, and slow trips, caused by having more cars out there -- maybe I'm a few years behind, schedule-wise, but that's what I thought it was)... Anyway, at rush hour, there are way too many elderly people and women (esp those "with child") standing -- I DON'T mean, spry youngsters, like MTS... I always yield my seat in such cases, but my 1 seat (or another one like me/mine) is hardly enough. Remember Jerry, our Blue and Green Lines, though light rail, are in many ways more akin to commuter rail lines than typical urban LRTs. Our system was designed to move people in comfort as much as it is in speed. That Tokyo/Manhattan sardine can style doesn't fly in Cleveland... but where it does, it's more on the Red Line, which is more like a typical urban rail line (in some ways) than a well established, commuter-like system as are the Shaker lines...

Understand the point, but I tend to disagree. Chains generally don't compete with unique, local-based niche restaurants, esp high end ones (Lola, Johnny's, Metropolitan, etc). I think he'll be OK, and more eateries in WHD can counterbalance the club-heavy atmosphere. I look at restaurants like hotels, they don't hurt each other, instead, the more you bring in, the more people are attracted to the area which, in the long run, helps everybody. I think the synergy will help Stark attract retail. I'm glad Stark has scaled down to get Pesht moving beyond the concept stage. I'm a little surprised that Stark's model, at least the one in the PD, doesn't have as exciting a signature building as Avenue District, given that Pesht is at ground zero of our CBD's residential/entertainment area and AveD is on the fringes... But again, this is still a concept. Remember how much FEB has evolved from Wolstein's initial model. Also, the concept photo is only one of the blocks Stark is filling in Phase 1 ... correct me if I'm wrong.

A sad day, indeed. Such a big deal when it opened, and many a youthful day running the ramps, scarfing in the food court and playing the arcade... It's still an architectural marvel -- oh those ramps. I've never seen anything like it. (you can always tell the old regulars, to which this place is "Randall Mall" or simply "Randall" as opposed to the 'outsiders' who call it the formalized "Randall Park Mall" which we never called it) ^I agree CTownsFinest, the crime issue was way overblown and used by some to justify not shopping where there were many (overwhelmingly law abiding, mostly middle class) blacks. It's another sad chapter in the depths to where Cleveland's racial schism can take us... The loss of Randall Mall is a terrible waste.

Yeah, this one slipped by me... belatedly, nice job mrnyc.

Beautiful photos... I love my Cleveland, but concede that Cincy takes the "looks" prize of the 3Cs by a comfortable margin. I still wonder how this row-house, Eastern city plunked down on the Midwest/South banks of the Ohio River. Downtown Cleveland would do well to emulate the attractive vistas and function of downtown Cincy; its a visual delight (if only Cincy would finish its damn subway, the place would be near-perfecto!).. and those ultra-mod Covington condo/apt are funky beyond belief. And the Roebling bridge seems more than simply the older-brother/precursor of its younger sibling connecting Brooklyn and Manhattan, it's current function, as a modern, major pedestrian bridge linking high-density Covington and Cincy is parallel, as well... Nice job!

For once, the bad economy actually is a plus. In a good economy, downtown Cleveland's still, apparently, a hard sell. Which means to me, anyway, that Stark could go on for years, decades, without filling is "grand" super-sized vision for the WHD. Now Big Bob’s been smacked back to earth/reality to do what I've been hoping he do all along: build piecemeal. Start small and then create something BIG a la Stonebridge… Fill the gaps. Lord knows, with the oceans of surface parking swallowing up WHD, there's plenty of space to do so... The mixing in 25% restaurant, initially, and holding out for the "right" retail seems a wise approach. ... As for the mini Cracker Park look: I'll take it. It's mixed use, high-density and exactly what we need. Most importantly, right now it's doable... All I can say is: FINALLY. Now, Stark, let's get on with it. :-D :clap: :wave:

^ ditto... like the name, too ... I think.

^^Geez, that "Suburban Gothic" thread is awesome; one of the best UO photo threads ever. Wish it could be expanded into a Life Magazine photo essay... Maybe it could form the nucleus of a PBS documentary. I'm sure there's be a number of high-minded individuals, groups willing to fund it. Just a thought.

Stop right there. That's the question we face again and again in this town, and yet prance along whistling past the graveyard like everything's AOK. Actually 70/65 your comments are most welcome. Cleveland can be a very insular city and an outside perspective is needed... I've noted above how, in my first visit to Indy since childhood earlier this year, I was most impressed with Indy’s downtown and especially how you guys are expanding your cc and tying it into the very fabric of the city. As you note, the conv center, Circle Centre mall and nearby and connected hotels are feeding off each other's energy. Even though, metro-wise, Indy's much smaller than Greater Cleveland, Indy has several much larger hotels than downtown Cleveland. Downtown Indy has a lot more foot-traffic and energy, in general, than downtown Cleveland right now. You also had the good sense to build 2 domed multi-use stadiums (RCA Dome now Lucas Oil stadium) and attach them to the convention center. Super Bowls, Final 4s, mega concerts and other year-round uses keep the revenue and excitement going. And while these stadiums are near the center of town, they are still off to the side enough to not block high-density residential and retail development. Cleveland, on the other hand, has its Cleveland Browns' Fortune 200 owner induce its struggling taxpayers to fork over $350M+ to build a single use, un-domed stadium (can you say 10-12 NFL games/uses per year) that sits on prime lakefront land blocking valuable lakefront residential land. But like you (and I) have said, the difference in Cleveland and Indy and other cities comes down to the same thing: leadership... or in Cleveland's case, the total lack thereof.

I heard Laura Inghram on slamming Obama for even suggesting we curb our American (God) given right to drive the biggest, fattest, gas-guzzling SUV Detroit can churn out – both for economic and ecological reasons. Well as we Americans (principally) continue to suck the earth dry of this finite source while, in the interim, Detroit continues to drag its feet on developing a serious electric car or one that flex to ethanol or some other alternative source, I hope Laura and her conservative cronies will pony up for $4.50, maybe even $5/gallon perhaps before the summer is over... creeps. I haven’t scanned all the above posts, but did anyone see CNN’s special “Out of Gas” the other night? It looked interesting but, sadly, I was distracted on the phone and only really was able to see one segment focusing on Brazil’s conversion of a portion of its vast sugar cane crop into an ethanol-like (I forget the name) alternative fuel source. It sure put America to shame with our intransigence towards doing anything but dancing to Detroit’s tune of big cars, more gas and, oh by the way, continued trashing of Amtrak, funding-wise, and local mass transit. And these pitifully weak (very) long term “goals” for increasing car MPG (something like 25 MPG by 2025) is pathetic. I love my country but, damn, sometimes its Laissez-faire, lightly-regulated corporate-dominated system leaves me feeling that the only really important person in this country is the corporate "person" created in a legal document, not the real flesh-'n-blood ones, who corporations often seemed designed to crush not serve. The real sad fact is that, it seems we as a country aren’t motivated to really change the situation as long as there are those wealthy enough to pay the gas prices… oh yeah, like those wealthy corporate types from companies like GM … who are probably Republicans to begin with. As Charlie Brown’s Lucy would say: ‘Good grief!’

Bottom line is, this location isn't being considered because of neighborhood connectivity or anything else that could be considered good (and really, there’s nothing good about building a cc here in the middle of nowhere over downtown), this location is being looked at b/c it can save money, period, and this is because the commissioners obviously didn't do their math beforehand. So the beat goes on. Whether it's building a taxpayer-funded stadium with no dome on it (and in the 2nd snowiest big city in America, no less); or converting an old WWII tank plant out by nothing other than the airport into a conv center, or building the AmShack by the Shoreway instead of spending $$ to properly maintaining train service at magnificent Terminal Tower, or settling for BRT/ECP rather than the subway that should be there,... this latest E 55/Chester MM/CC proposal is part of Cleveland's sorry history of building on the cheap rather than shooting for the excellence that this city once had -- and still could/should have. It makes me sick.

This is so absurd it's beyond comprehension. Any convention center location outside of downtown is totally unacceptable. Any argument to the contrary is totally without merit. This is Cleveland, Ohio, with a downtown that, while showing some progress, can be defined as struggling: struggling for solid retail, struggling for corporate office tenants, struggling mightily for major hotel space, among others. NO WAY does a convention center outside of downtown does anything but help destroy this city. I don't want to hear about Chicago or New York or Washington or any other clearly establish booming city with a red hot downtown bustling with all those things I listed lacking here; a city with a downtown that DOESN'T NEED a convention center... WE DO. Glenville, Atlanta is a poor comparison to Cleveland. Its traditional downtown is smaller and less impressive than ours (sans their gigantic hotels I wish we had), but in reality, as you note, their downtown stretches all the way out Peachtree road about 6-7 miles to its 2nd downtown at Buckhead. This corridor also is connected to a full-service, heavy rail subway line – yeah, the one Cleveland lacked the guts to build; sorry, ECP/BRT simply doesn’t cut it. Atlanta’s new-ish, sprawling, growing (exploding, really), service /light on heavy industry, Sunbelt city that is clearly the Yang or our Yin. It's unspeakable how these boob county commissioners are botching this sure thing for Cleveland. Why are we hearing about a possible cash shortfall NOW which could cost our downtown and our city the major economic shot-in-the-arm this huge project would represent!? Haven't they witnessed Wolstein, MRN, K&P, Zaremba and others who's progressive projects are boosting downtown and could add (and benefit from) the synergy to an expanded downtown CC would bring? I guess the commissioners' botching totally the new county admin HQ should have been precursor of potential disaster for the Med Mart/CC with these guys... And people question why I still say our vacuum of leadership is what continues to hold our great city back.

From a national point of view, hard to argue with Feagler. We've got the most regressive transit/transportation policy in the industrialized world.

ECP/BRT is IS better than just the #6 bus and it is spawning development... but no, it's no where close to the subway that should have been built there. Maybe ECP can someday be converted to light rail that can submerge into a subway at CSU and travel underground to connect with the current Rapid... Maybe. But ECP's what we got and, really, at this point, there's not much sense in continuing to look back...

Not to beat a dead horse here, but you're exactly right. Forest City needs to cut the crap about how it is located so close to Tower City and the Mall is SO far away. It's just a couple of blocks. Are we planning on only bringing in conventions for people with broken legs incapable of walking a couple of blocks? Anybody actually pushing that argument as legitimet deserves to be punched in the face by every single person on this board. Meet you out back.

But all sizzle and no steak isn't very filling.

A 5-star hotel? Guess my prayer for a more high-end Flats has been answered.

i'll believe it when i see it Let's see what Fri brings. I do sure-the-heck wish Stark was smaller on drama and larger on actual buildings and/or plans.

I'd love an aquarium and long felt a major Great Lakes city like Cleveland should have a good one, after we let the old one close years ago. Seems there were plans for one during the White admin in/near the Waterfront loop where Eaton is now looking to build its HQ. Aquariums, to me, are the coolest zoological museums of all... You can have Dave & Busters, however. I've had fun at D&B's but they're too gimmicky to me, and kinda played out, to a degree – they seem rather “yesterday’s news” to me… Besides, one thing the old Flats was blasted for was for bringing in too many low-end-to-middling chain eateries. Plus, D&B's are by nature gigantic and would eat up too much space in FEB's tight footprint. Call me snooty, but I'd rather see FEB sign more high end retail, food shopping (ie Heinen's) and dining. D&B's, Hooter’s, Max & Erma's or Dick's Last Resort, are all of the same ilk – the kind of places you grab your napkins from a toilet paper-like roll. We've had enough of those joints in our prime areas... If I want dining, games, sports and fun, I'll mosey on over to Corner Alley, a much more unique experience that's more tailored to downtown Cleveland.

Yeah, it's a shame those classic warehouses (i.e. Heaven & Earth, John Harvard's or even Kindler's) couldn't have been retained, ... at least, their facades to give and old + new contrast. As nice as I expect this area to be, you'd have hoped it would have been a little less plastic looking; but I'll wait to an actually architect’s rendering before I kill it... Speaking of a nice old + new contrast, I sure hope Stark comes up w/ some concrete proposal May22nd, with dates. I miss the old Flats, but I'm loving the high density concept and TOD nature of FEB. I just wish and hope this type of development can finally get going to supplement what still is our largest and strongest downtown residential nabe: the WHD. I also hope what Adam Fishman said becomes reality, that his new office tower will help link the 2 districts/neighborhoods becoming "the fulcrum of where the Warehouse District and the Flats come together."

If Eaton is landed along w/ E & Y and Tucker Ellis, I'd think the size of the hotel should be increased from the boutique-size plan... or a new one could/should be built. Some cities, in light of the foreclosure/housing slowdown, are shifting plans for some multi-unit residential buildings to hotels. I would limit this in FEB, of course, as this should be prime land to live on given the proximity to water, retail, shopping, transit, office, etc... but more hotel space close to nearly 1M sq. ft of office space seems to make sense.

^Creative. Obviously Minny, Columbus and Cincy have been doing this for some time. It sounds good if a little scary. I know its illegal, but car drivers sneak onto shoulders during jams all the time, and w/ so many cars and so much congestion, how can cops really police it? And if one of these cars dart out -- as the usually do -- in front of a bus traveling at 35 MPH... The article says, however, copycats are rare, which is good (I'm not sure this ide would work in regions w/ a large % of rude drivers, like the Northeast)... Still, I like the idea.