clvlndr

Too bad, audidave, CVSR isn't a part of the new station. Seems like a missed opportunity... Cleveland and Akron represent the closest together, largest central cities in Ohio (and, indeed, throughout the Midwest outside the Minn Twins and a few others); Cleveland has a rapid transit system; Akron has CVSR running through its core connecting Canton (and the airport) down the way and red-hot historic/trendy Peninsula just to the north. No reason why these areas should not be connected. I know I read somewhere a while ago that a CVSR trainman, I think, bristled at the notion CVSR could be a commuter rail line; said the speeds were too low and other problems (other RRs more knowledgeable than I may get what he was talking about). Still, I know retired-GCRTA guy Richard Enty was heading a study group for extending CVSR into Tower City (w/ a Steelyards Commons stop along the way) which potentially becomes more urgent if the planned new convention center is built there.

If I'm not mistaken, a few years ago then-Congressman Sherrod Brown sought $ to build a multimodal station serving Amtrak, CVSR and Metro RTA buses. What happened to that plan? Yours is a good idea and I think some have been thinking along those lines in actually converting CVSR to some commuter rail service connecting Akron, Canton and Cleveland... There's a plan that's been talked about (though I don't know the current status) to extend CVSR from Valley View 8 miles into Tower City, downtown, along the Towpath. CVSR would probably have a station at the new Steelyards shopping plaza in the Flats where the proposed rail route would abut. As of now, most are only looking to extend only the traditional CVSR sightseeing services into downtown Cleveland but, as I said, some have commuter rail ideas, too. All those sites you mentioned, esp UA and the ACR airport (and thrown the Pro Football HOF), are potential trip generators for the entire 60-mile route.

Sounds like Central Square in Cambridge...mmmm. I also agree on the lack of Indian; and I think downtown is ripe for Thai food too (Tremont is not downtown). I love Indian food too. Dowtown had a decent place, Indigo, on Prospect attached to the Colonial Arcade about 3-4 years ago. We went there during Friday dinner hour, once, and were the only 2 people being served; we knew it wasn't long for this world. The Gordon Sq area would be ripe for such a place given its diversity.

[note: obviously a nat'l perspective, but very relevant to NCB and our local banking/foreclosure problems] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/opinion/21krugman.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin Partying Like It’s 1929 By PAUL KRUGMAN Published: March 21, 2008 If Ben Bernanke manages to save the financial system from collapse, he will — rightly — be praised for his heroic efforts. Why does the financial system need salvation? Why do mild-mannered economists have to become superheroes? The answer, at a fundamental level, is that we’re paying the price for willful amnesia. We chose to forget what happened in the 1930s — and having refused to learn from history, we’re repeating it. Contrary to popular belief, the stock market crash of 1929 wasn’t the defining moment of the Great Depression. What turned an ordinary recession into a civilization-threatening slump was the wave of bank runs that swept across America in 1930 and 1931. Mr. Bernanke and his colleagues at the Fed are doing all they can to end that vicious circle. We can only hope that they succeed. Otherwise, the next few years will be very unpleasant — not another Great Depression, hopefully, but surely the worst slump we’ve seen in decades. Even if Mr. Bernanke pulls it off, however, this is no way to run an economy. It’s time to relearn the lessons of the 1930s, and get the financial system back under control.

If I could only find Scottie and the Transporter Room, I'd... what are your coordinates KJP?

:banger:

Well, carltron, let me back up and also welcome you to Cleveland... the odd hours of college teaching (and only 3-days/week) makes your idea not an entirely bad one if you like bigger cities, which is no knock on Akron which has its own charms. The suggestions people are giving you are good. I might also note that in much of the East Side (the Heights and other eastern suburbs), you're only 10-15 mins from I-271 (outer-belt east) which drops you right down to Route 8 (at around Northfield Twp) which, in turn, drops you right into UA's campus (it actually abuts it). Rte. 8 (a state hwy) is mostly a limited access road like a freeway but w/ a few at-grade (traffic lighted) intersections – but still, Rte 8 gets priority and traffic moves... This is kind of a back-door route and moves pretty quick even during rush periods and is especially compared to using I-77 from downtown Cleveland because you avoid frequent, huge tie-ups at the gigantic Valley View cloverleaf with intersecting, E-W I-480. Just remember, esp when on Route 8, KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN FOR TRAFFIC COPS AT ALL TIMES!! They're as pervasive as midges in a sultry Cleveland Indians' playoff game (esp against the damn Yankees).

Yes, but Atlanta has no lake effect snow.

Good to see the plan moving full-steam ahead... One Q though: I know I've suggested, and others have commented, about extending service past Vermilion to Sandusky for, among others, seasonal Cedar Pt visitors. However, looking at Google Earth (or was it MSN's Birdseye view?), suggests that the planned WS line crosses on an over/or underpass (w/ no rail tie-in/connection) what I believe is the Amtrak line then dips way south of Sandusky, whereas the Amtrak services the old Sandusky station. Given the expense of creating such a tie-in and given that the Ohio Hub would, I'm assuming, serve Sandusky much greater frequently (than present) anyway, I'm wondering whether extending West Shore service to Sandusky may be both duplicative and not cost effective?

70/65cityguy, ... Amen, brother.

Well, could this be b/c the commishes maybe, prematurely, gave TC a sense of entitlement a year or so ago when the proposal was 1st broached? -- even before, obviously, there was any deal in hand. This of course would understandably lead some (esp UOers) to believe FCE had paid some kind of under/table favor in whatever form. I don't recall the exact sequence of events, but from the beginning all I seem to remember was talk of a Higbee's Build showroom and artist’s renderings of a cc behind TC (w/ Steve Litt's negative critique a long time ago). I know people on this board have been strong for the Mall since that time, but the 1st I began hearing of it from Hagan & Co. was when the deadline drew near.

Stunning. A country of extreme natural and man-made beauty and in such a compact area. Sure makes the USA seem like a real youngster.

^The points are well taken. I'm just tired of the drama. We sweat-ed it from last summer up until a week ago when, before then, we thought the deal would fall through b/c of irreconcilable differences. Now, why go through a big site-selection drama. They were leaning towards TC, why not go with it? We drag things out so much here.

^let's hope you're right.

You're correct. In other words, Philly elected to build (now radically expand) its CC at a location to build upon preexisting retail and activity centers to expand upon the synergy. The streets around Philly's CC are packed w/ people well into most evenings... Exactly the opposite of the Mall area which has no such energy and is, essentially dead after 6p (and oftentimes before).

While it sounds nice, I think the public comment idea sucks. Who cares whether Suzy Schwartz wants the mall location because of childhood memories of the circus at public hall? The public has no expertise in these things, that's why we hire people w/ a supposedly greater expertise -- it's called representative govt. I feel strongly it should be Tower City and that rebuilding on the mall would be a huge mistake but, hey, if the commishes decide on the mall, so be it. Just get the damn thing done and quit dragging it out... In Cleveland, we seem more into big-project soap operas which oftentime don't materialize into bricks and mortar (Exhibit A: the new, relocated County Office building; Exhibt B: Pesht).

Amen, Oldmanladyluc... As to the impostor/poster above me, who are you and what have done with our MyTwoSense!? :evil:

Amazing shots, BarneyBoy... Love those old boat-like 70s-era cars; what'd those things get, like 5 MPG? And the Huron-Prospect Point lows my mind... The area, esp Prospect, was a total dump in those days... Compare that corner's trendy existence today, with the Winking Lizard, Pointe condos & Kent's Urban Design Insititute, among others.

There's nothing, Master, particularly attractive in Twinsburg's location, a bland, low-density strip mall in the woods next to freeway (and in the next county, no less) over downtown Cleveland. Where do you get your definitions? Secondly, I only mentioned Chicago to thwart your assumption the main thing making downtown more attractive is freeway access – which, btw, Cleveland has in abundance; that Chicagoans (and Philadelphians, Bostonians and others) use trains often. And btw, I specifically said “Metra” trains, to which you talked about the Rapid’s lack of suburban penetration. In case you don’t know Chicago, Metra’s a commuter rail system. The Chicago L is more comparable to our Rapid (and also doesn’t penetrate Chicago’s burbs well either. Developing commuter rail plans for Cleveland, which is happening, can help alter the auto mindset, but we’ll never be Chicago, I understand that; but we need not be Phoenix or San Antonio, either. I’ve never bought into your (and too many others) mindset that Cleveland needs more freeways to be attractive. You’re from East Cleveland, one of the few burbs with direct Rapid service. Why should you care so much about damn freeways? Do you want Cleveland to become Detroit--a sprawling city that freeways have cut up neighborhoods in and sucked the live blood from these hoods leaving, more than any place I’ve seen, miles upon miles of vacant, weed-covered lots? I really don’t buy your mentality on this score at all… Master, I do agree with you that there’s a Chicken Little mentality among developers here that stymies retail and other development downtown. Add to that, our politicians have not been known for the creativity, cooperation or aggressiveness needed to attract business. The new Medical Merchandize Mart may signal a new day, however. It’s the kind of Big Idea and bold move we need. About Cleveland schools attracting people, I don’t put much stock in this. As long as Republicans run this country, and they do so even when Democrats run Congress and the White House, funding and problems for big city schools (including Chicago) aren’t changing anytime soon – it stinks, absolutely, but what are you going to do?

Just like w/ Frank Jackson's compact w/ the burbs over stabilizing water rates in exchange for each not poaching business from the other, perhaps a similar agreement can be made viz retail. As most people here are saying, despite the land/financial advantages one greedy burb can offer, the region as a whole is harmed by the spiraling sprawl this is creating, not to mention the sheer foolishness for residents as we hit $4+/gallon gas this spring. Despite the freeway access along I-480 and Rt. 82, the bulk of the population of the region lives many miles from Twinsburg so, despite how 'unique' this place is supposed to be, there's only so much traffic this place can command. ^As for your comment re freeway access to downtown. It's interesting that a very large segment of those who visit Chicago's always booming Magnificent Mile come into town by train; the more affluent from the sprawling outer burbs (where the bulk of the non-city dwellers dwell) use the double-decker Metra trains. This in a region filed with freeways, toll-roads, tons of malls and, as noted, sprawl. It's just that downtown Chicago has managed to keep itself relevant and exciting without building more and more freeways. They let the transit infrastructure do the job.

^I hear you shs96. Tower City's sitting on top of the central Rapid station at the major bus-rapid transfer point in the county is both a blessing and a curse... But all this sprawling development's got to be a zero sum game at some point. Even in the late 80s when downtown had both Higbees and Mays, with the malls that existed (sans such newbies like Steelyards, Southpark, Cracker Park and Legacy), this area was deemed ‘over-stored.’ So how, in this down econ climate, can developers to put together viable financing packages when these titans are body-slamming each other for a diminishing buck?

Despite the image of this region w/ its pockets hanging out, there's tons of money around here... somewhere. One would think with all the good things going on downtown, some major retailer/developer would, like, stick her/his neck out and take a chance... someone.

As Archie Bunker would say: "Whooptdy damn doo." Sure'd be nice if downtown could get a wiff of some of the $$(100)Ms retail fanning farther and farther from Cleveland's core.

Detroit-Shoreway's Capital Theater should be open in about a year or so. That's excellent. I look forward to patronizing it, as I have Cleveland Public Theatre.

^No you've got it backwards, WE CAN have it both ways. Let's not mix apples and oranges. I was only talking about the film festival; a single event I travel to as a local. And as a local who loves Cleveland, prefers transit to downtown, knows downtown backward and forward and who likes walking, I'd use the Rapid + walk or bus (ECP) if the CC was out at CSU. But neither me, nor someone like me, is not at issue here. We're talking about conventioneers who mainly don't know Cleveland, won't want to walk around (distances at least), aren’t here to sightsee and don't want to have to deal with the cold. Getting back and forth to the airport is one thing. Moving about along Euclid's + E.4th restaurant & retail area, during convention down-time or during evenings, is entirely different. We can, and should, have an outdoor and indoor built up environment -- and yes, lower Euclid should continue developing retail-wise as should Tower City and yes, Tower City is better suited than the Mall to take advantage of both, as well as being more accessible to Gateway and WHD, (esp when Pesht gets going) as well as TC's indoor environment as well. The Mall site is on all these counts. And you don't even mention the TC connection, indoor or outdoor, to the Q, a very important potential CC venue... Why be so narrow focused, MTS, that you won't admit there's any merit to TC? I've at least tried to see some possibilities in the Mall. And it positively foolish to simply ignore one Cleveland's greatest assets -- the Airport Rapid -- simply because of a pro-Mall agenda. I stand by that.