clvlndr

CTownsFinest, you've enlightened me. I thought transfers were eliminated with RTA's innovative all-day pass system a few years ago... Also, I agree with your sentiments regarding New Year's Eve rail service... RTA used to offer all night, New Year’s Eve service a few years, which I thought was a great public service in keeping drunk driver's off the road and keeping other drivers safe from them. With the continued resurgence of downtown nightlife (and other areas, like Ohio City), I think this service should be brought back. I also believe that summertime rail service till 2a should be returned as well. But I never seem to get an answer re either of these.

^I'm on it.

Eaton!? Wow, that is big.

during the day the current county owned parking garage is often full - with the tower, rotunda, 1010, lower euclid, etc. all empty. i'd think that by adding a hotel, commercial/retail space, hundreds of housing units, that there will be demand for some additional parking that is not supported by the current garage. another poster really hit the point on the head: cleveland does not have the substantial transit systems that exist in other regions. outside of daylight hours during the workweek, many areas are innaccessible on transit. imo, we can continue to encourage walkable neighborhoods, and develop in ways that encourage people to do more walking and transit use than driving, but in cleveland, for the near future, people who have a choice, will likely continue to choose to at least have access to a car. Urbanlife, you say we don't have the substantial transit systems of other regions, yet we have the best in the state and, still, one of the better ones in the US. Where does RTA not go where biz folks visiting Cleve need to go? Cleveland has a small, walkable downtown with plenty of cabs, buses and, by the time this project is finished (if it goes as planned), ECP/BRT, ... esp to the Clinic and U.Circle. When you travel on business to other cities, do you ride buses, trains and cabs around to suburban malls or stick close to downtown? I don't know about you, but for me (and probably most) it's the latter... I was in Chicago for meeting recently staying, for nearly a week, on the Magnificent Mile with a conference. Few of us even rode the L (from the airport). Aside from that, everybody walked, bused and cab-ed around the immediate area (one guy did ride the L to see Wrigley field, but that was 9t)... So how does this put Cleveland at such a transit disadvantage?... We do still have one of the few airport rapid transit systems that many downtown hotel guests use. I'm with MTS on this one... We have good transit here, but the 1st reaction with most every new project is that we don't and that we must start acting like Houston, Detroit or Phoenix and build more and bigger lots to accommodate more cars. With all the vacant offices in the 9th St/Playhouse Sq. area, I can’t imagine how 1 large condo/hotel put such a strain on parking? Upscale hotels valet drivers' cars anyway, so does it really matter if parking is immediately on the premises? Also, I don't know why anyone would want to dismantle the overhead walkway across Prospect to the garage. Clean/fix it up, maybe. It's not horrible looking; it's been there so long, to me, it's part of the urban fabric of the neighborhood and isn't so God awful. And in a city of our climate, shouldn't we be encouraging indoor connections like this, the RTA Tober walkway at Gateway and the overhead parking walkway at the Q. Cincy and Minneapolis are way ahead of Cleveland in this vein and, last I heard, locals aren't kicking up a storm to have them removed because some feel they don't look good...... ultimately, this seems akin to the gross overreaction to the Cleve Trust tower, to begin with, where some foolishly called for its demolition; now averted... for now, anyway.

I think I've underestimated you, Ned. I don't know why it took me so long. You've started using your incompetence as a weapon. -- Peter Lowenstein (Ted Danson), “Body Heat” And so it goes in Cleveland…We take a iconic/historic bank rotunda and attached high-rise of some historical note; both sitting vacant and crumbling in the heart of the financial district. Then along comes the wayward county, bungling, boisterous with some vague, poorly conceived ‘plan’ of moving their workers into these buildings. Then they foolishly talk of tearing down the tower to replace it with a squat structure covering more valuable land. Then they draw ire from the architecture preservationist community but, more than anything, they waste 2+ years millions of $... Yet, in the end, we somehow net a swanky hotel/condo in those very same buildings which, I guarantee you, wouldn’t have happened without the publicity and dead-end option posed by the county causing K & D to bail them out – thank God for K & D! I shudder to think of where the Flats would be without them. Not a bad deal. … Now if we could get those squabbling, loudmouth, non-visionary commissioners (who, to their credit, have handled the Medical Mart/convention center situation quite masterfully), to get off their asses and finally use their 2,000+ worker bases as a tool to build a multi-use structure to really help downtown – as they’d originally pledged, then we’d really be ahead of the game… but right now, I’ll just celebrate the “new” Cleveland Trust tower/rotunda which sounds similar to what (Cleveland’s) John Ferchill is doing with Detroit’s old vacant Book Cadillac Hotel building in Detroit. As for a new County building?… I won’t hold my breath.

I think this the pic is of 63rd Street, where the Green Line L goes to its terminal at Cottage Grove Ave. It's only double-tracked. I think it is wide like that only to accommodate the wide street and with the wider spaced poles it was easier, engineering-wise, to place the tracks directly over them... That's my guess, anyway. 63rd, the Loop and, I think, Lake Street are odd in having L's over them, because most lines travel over alley-ways behind building lines... much like this:

I hope Cleveland people get in on this. I know I'll send a letter, too... light rail in Cincy (and Columbus, too) is good for the whole state.

^Sorry, Jerry, I didn't mean that as an attack. I greatly appreciate the ideas and RTA info you bring to this forum... I guess we're not going to agree on everything.

What, now, would be best for Moda? Live theatre or a music stage? Another upscale restaurant? Could the Heaven & Earth guys reconstitute their proposed establishment to pass neighborhood muster? If so, to what? ... And what is going on, if anything, next door with the old City Buddha space. Last I saw over the holidays it still sat empty with no apparent movement.

^^ shs96, I'm actually surprised Wolstein's moving as quickly as he is. The original talk of 2009 or 10 "starts" was very frustrating. But the strip-joint deal along with the apparent corporate office competition with Stark (and maybe even Dick Jacobs) seems to have upped the ante. Ever since the settlement things have been moving rapidly … Most of the riverfront site west of Old River Road within the footprint has been cleared already with the old Fagan’s building seemingly ready to meet the wrecking ball any day now. I, however, liked the dual tower Lighthouse Landing concept. I hope, only, those high-rise residences are simply moved from the original site and not replaced by office buildings (which seems to be what people are saying), even though high-grade new office space would be nice for the Flats and downtown in general.

BRT in Lakewood would be a waste of money and designed, probably, to thwart rail expansion efforts: esp a project like the well-planned West Shore commuter rail. BRT would be billed, like it was viz ECP, as the cheap alternative to rail, and of course, we all know a subway/rail system should have been built up the Euclid corridor as part of the (eventually failed) Dual Hub initiative of the 80s & 90s. However, it would make little sense. While it may be somewhat faster than local buses, it is clearly slower and inferior -- capacity-wise, comfort-wise -- to rail. Also, please explain BRT's so-called speed prospects along the Clifton route considering the West Shoreway is slated to be converted from a freeway to a low-speed, multi traffic-light(ed) "boulevard" serving high-density, multi-unit residences. As noted above, even in the current state, the Gold Coast-Edgewater area through western Lakewood appears pretty well served by bus (#326)and circulator connections to the 2 Red Line rapid stations in addition to the #55s. As for Lakewood stations for the commuter rail line, in addition to the downtown Lakewood stop, there could be thinking toward a stop at W.117 on the Lakewood-Cleveland border serving the Gold Coast area... Given all this, I think BRT would serve no purpose other than expense, lifestyle/business disruption with little payoff along with, as noted, the suppression of the superior rail alternative. Also keep in mind, while ECP has torn up Euclid and disrupted business and traffic, the main locus is Midtown which is sparsely populated, low-income and rundown. Conversely, the Lakewood-Edgewater (and possibly Cudell, along Detroit) area of this westward BRT is through a high-density, (mainly) upper middle class region. You think those residents would go for their handsome, historic Clifton being torn up for BRT? And how would they like those futuristic BRT "station" stops -- like those springing up along Euclid's Silver Line -- sitting in front of their gracious old homes and brownstone walk-up apartment buildings? Makes no sense while as KJP noted, the current NS freight line through area backyards could be retrofitted for commuter service much cheaper while delivering a superior service.

Last year the story line was that Troy, Ted & the boys hung out partying and didn't take the game seriously enough (I never bought that cause the pre-bowl period is meant for hanging out; all the teams do it. That doesn't mean there's not a time for serious game prep -- you think Tressel would allow otherwise? please). What's the excuse going to be this time? ... not prepping guys enough to have them not run into punters?

^^ You know, StrapHanger, I think you're right about Javitz -- I remember having to take my GF over to her exhibit by taxi... I guess the overarching point is simply: it's New York. The name is traveler magic -- a convention is going to want to be in/near the City even if the thing were across the river in Hoboken, NJ. Their reputation, along with the mega-power of their downtown, gives them that luxury. Ditto Chicago... We don't have that. No one likes to hear it, but our reputation is still generally bad in the travel industry. We're still lumped in, often, with Detroit or Buffalo or even, sometimes, Newark, NJ. Unfair, perhaps, but it is what it is, and probably why the MM folks think they can come in here and call the shots. ... We've accomplished much but our downtown still needs a serious economic shot in the arm. MM downtown -- Tower City (my preference) or the old site would give that to it. Univ Circle or Midtown (immediately to the west of the Clinic campus) will not and, in fact, Hagan is telling us/MM that if it's built there, the commissioners will recind the sales tax and an MM inspired convention center, new or expanded, will not be built. Makes perfect sense.

^Yes, All Aboard Ohio is who I meant.

FREE PRESS EXCLUSIVE $150-million complex planned for downtown Detroit Cadillac Centre to include lofts, stores January 5, 2008 By JOHN GALLAGHER FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick and private developers are days away from announcing a blockbuster new residential, retail and entertainment center in the heart of Detroit, a project aimed at pumping up downtown's 24-hour buzz and international interest in the city. The $150-million Cadillac Centre, plans for which were disclosed exclusively to the Free Press, would rise on a parcel known as the Monroe Block, a surface parking lot just east of Woodward Avenue and Campus Martius Park near the Compuware headquarters. Financing is lined up, and the schedule calls for breaking ground in the fall of 2009, with tenants moving in late 2011. MORE: http://www.freep.com

^Good Q. I've been to Chicago's McCormick Place and NYC's (Javitz Center?). Don't know Boston's at all... My take is that with each of these, it's an inconvenience, but they have the advantage over our Midtown in stronger transit facilities, direct rail to downtown. Other advantages these places have allowing them to build outside of their downtowns are: stronger downtowns that don't need confectioner's direct spending as much as we do and stronger neighborhoods/less decay between their cc's and downtown than do we viz Midtown; currently, at least.

It's a great letter, but I've got the feeling that major pols like Strickland shoot off weak form letters to little guys (no insult meant, for most of us are) as opposed to people/groups like the Ohio Hub folks who’ve done such a great job of organizing, focusing and presenting their ideas. I have no doubt that they have the Guv's ear, big-time...

Good for Timmy. For once, I'm in total agreement w/ him. Building the MM out near the hospitals deep-6's a new convention center and damages downtown. Just because we're Cleeeeevland (Al Michaels loves to mock the name), we ought not be pushed around by these people ... much like we've been pushed around by the R&RHOF folks viz the induction ceremony; at least until last month... This esp after we made the 1st commitment by setting the tax for a new cc in an economically struggling city & metro region. As Hagan says, it's a public-private partnership. We've done our public part, now what about them?... And consider the precedent it would set to cede such key city planning to an out-of-towner simply b/c they have a fat wallet? An important project, yes, but if these Chicago folks can't commit to specific investment and if they don't build downtown by the deadline, then let 'em walk. We’ll find another investor; the blueprint is there. Despite their oft curmudgeonly attitudes, neither CC nor UH are going anywhere.

Maybe the Texans' game was the corner-turner for the Browns, esp the D. Guys like Brandon McDonald really came on strong. And don't forget, until Sunday's Eagles' surprise, it was the Browns who tested New England more than any opponent, and since that time, our confidence is rising by leaps and bounds... who knows...?

^Let me apologize ahead of time to the rest of you for the rant. Not my style, but sometimes... KJP, I'm aware May's isn't totally vacant, and I overreached on that... My only original point was to raise, once again, the idea of retail there, though scaled down from what me and others had originally tossed around. I know it's been raised many times, but I thought it needed to be revisited, esp in light of my tremendous admiration -- along with, I'm sure everybody here -- of E. 4th and desire to see it hit its stride.

If so much is being done, where are the results? The building was sold for $10M about a year ago yet nothing, public anyway, has happened. I have a bit more knowledge and experience about what goes on in the city than do you, I'm sure... and connections. You don't know me or what I know ... So before you assume -- probably in La-La land that someting is happening by dint of silence, consider first that it's probably not. That's the way it is here, and it's not going to change anytime soon. And maybe if people like you focus on ideas rather than attack the speaker, things would be more productive around here and not the way they are; folks like you are a symptom of the problem... And in case actually tried to read what I said, I gave allowance for the stagnant economy for Stark and for anyone else, while at the same time voiced the idea that someone consider something on not such a grand scale, ... as Clevelanders are wont to do... And, btw, in case you noticed, this is a forum. I don't know who you are or who you think you are, but people are allowed to voice their opinions whether you happen to like them or not.

^unfortunately, Andy may simply want to feed at the already over-generous trough that is the Cavs. Have you seen the contracts we're paying Hughes, Snow, Donyell and even Z? Bloated isn't even the word them. Andy's clearly not worth what he's asking, but he's the sacraficial lamb here b/c Cleveland and the rest of the league are seeking to pull up the gang plank on players seeking the Nene contract. Makes sense, but for the Cavs, we simply have to weather these contracts till they come off the books; and kiss Andy goodbye, perhaps... Only then can we, maybe, go sign a legit bigtime free agent.

^hysterics? Guess you enjoy mediocrity.

The amazing success of E. 4th, even in its still-unfinished state, screams for some modicum of retail along either nearby Euclid or Prospect -- and I don't mean the little bit of retail in the 3 nearby historic malls... Most notably, I can't believe nothing's going on in still hulking-yet-beautiful May's after all these years (now, nearly 2 decades of that huge familiar terracotta facade ... Can't the city fathers come up w/ something for this space? Wouldn't it be great for E. 4th to feed off this? Hell, I'll take a Target, or even a K-Mart or Marshalls or Burlington Coat or... you get the picture; ANYTHING accept what we now have which is zippo. We're so damn slow to act in this town and, more often than not, we REact. Seems, as usual, we've thrown all our eggs in the Pesht basket and now that Stark seems dragging along -- as much slowed by the poor housing market as anything -- that may not be happening anytime soon... Hello! Can't we get Frank and/or Cimperman going here? ... somebody!

I say: good riddance to cars thru E. 4th-- who needs them... but if that's changing... What's even more strange is that, as of this weekend, there were still patio chairs & tables... caked with light snow!