clvlndr

I agree with 95% of TMH’s post. Only thing is, Browns Stadium tends to weaken it somewhat. The best, and imho ONLY advantage to having built Browns Stadium for (what $350M in taxpayer $) is that we got to receive another NFL team to call the Browns. Now I’m not downplaying this which, in itself, is considerable; it gives great civic pride and visibility to the City. However, as for the actual stadium itself, it’s giving us little: No spin-off development to speak of (unless you consider the W. 3rd RTA station which was taxpayer $ anyway). Not to mention the fact the stadium actually is blocking our lakefront from more residence/retail friendly high-density development… Add to that the refusal to dome it, or even have a retractable dome, means the joint is of even lesser public utility. It only has 10 firm dates during the year, 2 of which are low-attendance Browns exhibition games. And Browns games are primarily Sunday’s during the fall/winter - during school months-this results in lower impact for restaurant/bar retail; particularly since football fans tend to BYOB (and F = food), tailgate, watch the game and go home (add to this, a significant chunk of folks come straight from church to the game, so no restaurant stops in btw) … Compare the Cavs-Indians at Gateway with 124 dates (some overlapping) for regular season games, alone. It’s true the Browns attract more for each individual game, but overall, the Cavs and Indians dwarf the Browns in terms of fans drawn to town, and most of these games are on weekday or weekend evenings when the potential impact on restaurant/bar retail is greater, both before and after their games. Then too are the irritating side factors surrounding the Browns: the team and organization, at least till a few years ago, stinks; they’re poised to fire their 3rd coach in less than 9 years. Then you had the water pipe burst a few weeks ago which was a public relations disaster; for the city and the stadium… In short, when selling the MM tax, best be silent about Browns Stadium. And I am a RABID Browns fan; curse Modell to this day and celebrated when the new “Browns” returned. BOTTOM LINE? Yes, I am 4-Square behind the paltry sales tax to support this very important (dare I say, critical) project for Cleveland. It is important, though, when attacking the wrong-way rebels (without a cause), we present the facts in as favorable light as possible. Yes, there is some valid skepticism in any new tax - we are taxed a lot here and the City, esp it’s citizens are struggling, generally. Yes, there is a lot of skepticism of government now, from Washington (esp Washington) to Cleveland. We simply don’t trust folks who are spending our $$… The Browns semi-debacle gives some rise to this, but Gateway and the Medical Mart clearly trump such arguments.

^That would be a disappointment and another setback for American transit -- which lags, terribly, behind the rest of the industrial world in this area. If Nashville, and the State, were sophisticated enough to develop TOD around rail stations, then it could survive. Suburb-to-downtown commuting is important, but isn't the sole aspect of commuter rail (South Florida's Tri-Rail doesn't directly serve any downtown and, yet, is wildly successful and expanding).

^or ... bringing it back.

I agree with your thought process.

Great job, KJP... this is grass-roots mass transit. When your leaders twiddle their thumbs, the public must step to the plate.

CSX... booo!

^by the by, while we hear a lot about West Shore, what is up with the cvsr proposed extension to TC? If it is built, what possibility would it become, at least in part, a commuter rail line? Just to reiterate contra Mr. Self, I-77 south is usually a commuter nightmare so such a rail line would be of great service to a lot of people. I noticed a freshly graveled stub rail line down near the TC amphitheater during the Rib Cookoff.

Amen...

^ Yeah, you're right MyTwoSense... I love this town but I just get so friggin' frustrated when we volutarily hold ourselves back in cases like this.

No demand!? Did Self poll everybody along potential extension routes? When is rail built based on demand? Is a transit agency selling a product? Any extension of rail is per se to a community that's never had it before. So how could any community w/o rail know that it wants something it never had? Many GM/Detroit types were saying LA residents had no demand for rail and loved their cars. Now, Angelos are in love with transit; downtown (and many hoods) is growing in size and density. Money? How can RTA use that excuse? How did we find $230M for ECP? Transit agencies apply to the federal govt to finance the bulk of capital projects like rail, so what the hell is Self (obviously a Calabrese flunky) talking about? Not enough traffic? I wish this guy would inch along with me during rush hour on I-271, 77, 480 or up Cedar Hill… Rail transit is designed to shape positive growth in cities. St. Louis is smaller and losing population faster than Cleveland and, yet, they’ve just built, and are rapidly expanding (well past ours) rail. So what’s their secret? We have an derelict industrial wasteland of a lakefront with rapid rail – the Waterfront Line – at its doorstep. High density could be developed a la Chicago … if we had the will and wanted to. But obviously, we don’t. Only in Cleveland… It’s scary our vaunted transit officials could peddle such BS and not be challenged … not even on this UO board. I guess we’re all a bunch of lemmings that will swallow whatever crap our officials sling at us... I do applaud noozer for posting this article, though...

^OK ... But didn't someone, above, say Kassouf gave Wolstein a figure, though it may be somewhat inflated? Didn't it seem Corrigan, in suspending trial seeking settlement, essentially send the message that, after the disastrous (to Wolstein) Carney testimony, ED is a real longshot for Wolstein and that he'd better grab Kassouf's deal, as unpalatable as it may seem -- given the price and given shady Kassouf? Also, doesn't the Flynt, strip-deal ratchet up pressure on Wolstein to just go ahead pay the (Kassouf) price and get this thing moving. After all, it seems the whole city, most notably the Mayor, the Port Authority and downtown-oriented pols (esp Cimperman), have been placing a lot of hopes 'n dreams (and effort) on Wolstein and his project, now 2 years + 2 months from announcement, on a podium w/ then Mayor Jane Campbell...

So what's the latest on Wolstein? There's been a lot of talk about Hustler and the Strip area deal but, specifically, is Wolstein ready to move? Does he have all the lots yet? if not, how close is he? Is there any kind of projected build date? It's been rather quiet lately.

Peabody, I hear your pain. This was a shaky compromise from the git-go, but it's a tad more palatable now, you'd have to agree. People like you at Stonebridge speaking out on this sent our sometimes wrongly pols running for cover. Hustler, and it's predecessor Circus, sat in the middle of the thriving E. Bank for years and there wasn't much trouble from what I've seen. If it's just Diamond's and Flynt, in a building similar in size to the current ORR joint, it may not be so bad so long as we can push it as far back away from Center St as possible (I've been traveling and may have missed it -- is there a specific site where Flynt's going or is it still a general area near Diamond's in the Summer/Winter street area? Don't forget, Christy's is huge over next to Shooters and the Shooter's lot is usually full on weekend nights -- and I'm sure a good chunk of those cars are for Chisty's, yet I don't see a lot of trouble there (of course, I don't live down there). We tend to fear the street-crime prostitution aspect outside these clubs, but most of that stuff goes on inside these joints from my (very) limited, longtime ago exp hanging out w/ the guys (just looking at the girls on stage, mind you, nothing more). More often than not, it seems there's not much going on outside. Frankly, and sadly as we've seen, you're more likely to find more 'trouble' outside our more typical live-band, dive-bar joints (ie, Spy Bar, Blind Pig, etc) than with the strip joints, where I take it, a lot of customers coming and going don't want to be all that visible anyway. The XXX book joint on W. 9th in the WHD, now spruced up and called "Adult Mart" has sat in that location for years, but WHD still thrives and grows all around it (including excellent Constantino's supermarket across the street) as though the place doesn't exist. In Philly, and I am sure most are aware, South street is loaded with sex stores and a couple peep show places. Off the side streets of South are beautiful downtown neighborhoods that are developing at a rapid clip. I'm not quite sure which areas you mean, gotribe... South St. is loaded with so many clubs, restaurants, grunge-joints, live stages, tan/piercing parlors, tarot reading places, etc., even a couple full-service grocery stores, it's really hard for me to pinpoint where any skin joints are. Philly has a number of Gent clubs, but as far as I've known, none are concentrated in Center City, where residential, restaurant, office and entertainment expansion is off the hook. The main sex-club "alley's" tend to be in out of the way industrial-type areas of South Philly (some looking like the industrial Flats), away from growth areas. Others are in South Jersey across the Delaware river. Let's hope the compromise of just Flynt seriously limits impact these clubs could have...

Let's hope Sherrod can get this into the Sen Appropriations bill -- he's of a progressive mindset, particularly on transportation/transit issues, to do so...

This sounds nice; I hope it get's done but let's be realistic. Except for certain projects -- Stonebridge, Ave Dist, and hopefully soon on a Flats East Bank near you, Wolstein (that's gone quiet lately, what'z up over there?) -- a lot of projects are struggling. If things had gone as planned, Marous' District Park would be openning Phase one about now; there've seemingly been umpteen planned "Courthouse Square" condo projects that have disappeared into the netherlands, and even in booming Ohio City, the Jay Loft project is stopped in slow sales construction limbo (and that's largely adaptive reuse with some infill/new construction) ... In case you haven't noticed, in most towns, housing -- particularly new start condo/1-family housing is still slumping. In downtown, while we've had fantastic adaptive reuse, totally new construction has been few and far between and seemily all of it one location: at Stonebridge. I'm pulling for Zaremba over at Avenue District and the others, but it's tough right now. Canal Basin sounds nice, and I'd obviously loooove seeing it, but right now I'd just be happy with the stuff already out there getting done downtown (and in town)... and that includes 515 E. Euclid, where the planned condo tower is... well, somewhere in the future, I guess... last I looked there isn't any ground-level retail there, yet. Maybe when ECP finally finishes there will...

OK, Timmy & Jimmy have given their assurances -- at the behest of a number of burb mayors -- esp the spending (for this project, only) limitation clause. We're talking a sales tax of 25 cents on every $100 of sales -- not very much for most people and most transactions. Hunting Valley, Westlake, Solon, Shaker & Cleveland, alike, will pay... and, oh yeah, if we keep getting more tourist in town, they will pay just like those of us living here... Yeah, I'm not wild about the players here, but let's stop the usual Cleveland hemming and hawing and risk losing this seemingly can't miss project. Downtown is picking up biz-wise and this would put us on a roll, not to mention further tying into our greatest economic and prestige/high profile strength right now: our medical industry... Let's get this thing done and end the hand wringing.

And while I'm on RTA beefs, here's a few: - why crowded 1-car Red Line trains during the day, when more and more people are riding trains. Yesterday, a car in from the airport was packed -- with me fumbling w/ a suitcase and had to stand for a mom & toddler. By the time we reached West Blvd, it was unbearable -- so many bikes and baby carriages, you could hardly move... I've seen others like this. Why? I can't believe RTA is saving all that much by doing this, to the horrible convenience of riders. 1 man/woman can drive a 2-car train. And what's worse is, because of the increased daytime riders, RTA now (wisely) mans its Red Line station booths all day (at least, it appears that way) other than just at rush hour like before... Not only that, I've seen RTA personnel employed at the line's end (airport, in this case) who's strictly hired to "cut" the trains and re-couple them in 3s and 4s for the dead-head ride back to E. 55th (there's another RTA 'cost-saver' in itself, ... right?). Again, where's the cost savings in this? Esp when its so horribly inconvenient to riders... ... but who the hell cares about riders?... esp when employ comfort is paramount while riders be damned... Evidence: Again, yesterday, I hopped off to check out the new W. 117th station (which is nice, but should have an escalator)... But there was no AC. It was a sweltering and oppressive in that station as an auto with its windows rolled up that morning. But when I had to reinsert my card in W. 117th's new ticket booth, the guy moved a metal piece in front of his window cut and all that nice AC from w/in rushed out and enveloped my hand. Nice for my hand, but the rest of me? ... not much different for the other oppressed commuters who rushed, gasping, through the station seeking, er, relief outside... (btw, it was reading 91 degrees at the time)... and it was no diff at West Blvd, where I was dropped after a lovely meal at Pier W. Seems AC in Rapid stations is a no-no; at least, until some elderly person croaks w/in b/c of the heat -- here's hoping that doesn't happen before change arrives... I hope.

also, clvlndr, your observations about the full parking lots at Shooters & Powerhouse won't necessarily translate into train riders -- we'd all LIKE them to, but the average sheep is lazy enough that walking across the Center Street Bridge wastes time that they could use sucking down another flavor-of-the-month - JeTDoG I don't doubt that's true; also, at the moment, crossing the great Cuyahoga on foot isn't attractive late at night, esp since our wise City fathers (and mothers) haven't seen fit to light the path to Settlers Landing and make it more attractive... At the very least, I'd settle for late night, weekend rail service over the older/regular lines, holding off on the Waterfront line until, at least, Wolstein's development is done... There's plenty of action in the WHD and, now, Gateway/E.4th to warrant such service out of Tower City which sits between both these nodes, about 3 mins walking from each. Urbanlife is correct: be it MADD or other such groups, I can think of fewer better public services for RTA than to reduce drunk driver injuries and fatalities -- both would be greatly reduced by direct rapid rides to their doors or, at least, to the car -- on board trains where they could sleep off the evening's fun before a short drive home.

Seems like the Board could use an Education... or maybe nobody's told them you burn your lawn -- even more than it's been -- by sprinkling in hot, direct sunlight ... oh well. btw, did I miss something, or did they refinish the skin of Reserve Sq?... It looks browner than it's gray of the past -- or is this just musky's cam angle?

Nice job, Musky. Interesting shots... I know these photos are effective... I'm sweating just looking at them (and I'm in AC right now).

Oh God, does this suck! ... where the hell are the preservationists!?

Exactly, urbanlife! You hit the nail on the head... As I keep saying, while RTA isn't in biz to deliberately lose $$, it tends to forget that it's a taxpayer-funded service and not a corporation... So we see the hard numbers of a urbanlife's cost-to-benefit analysis (are these good numbers? I have no reason to doubt them) So how about, just the New Year's --- one night per year Mr. Calabrese! -- alone. And with crowded conditions downtown, esp on warm weekend nights like we've been having -- esp on the Flats westbank where the Powerhouse and Shooters parking lots are packed to the gills (... and despite being on the West Bank, the Powerhouse is just a 5 min stroll over the Center Street bridge from the Settler's Landing WL Rapid station ... Shooters is only about 3 mins beyond that... Please explain to me how it's so God awful, break-the-bank expensive where by Calabrese felt forced to cut a mere 2 hour Rapid extension of service on just 2 nights per week (Fri & Sat), and even then, only btw Memorial Day and Labor Day... ... Let's stop making excuses for Calabrese's RTA when there are none...

Are you always so critical? I've read quite a few of your post in various threads and you always seem to find something to critique....although you don't have a "seat at the table" per se. You know how much I care about what you think? ... yeah, that much.

I wish Stark would come forward and say something. He's obvoiusly moving behind the scenes, but keeping the public on a string stinks.

CTownsFinest, I'm in accord with your thinking. I'd just stress that downtown there should be a subway. I'm not a fan of these downtown LRT transit malls in big cities. It only reflects the lack of guts in the USA to build real rapid transit... Could LRT be effective rising at, say, CSU? yes. But downtown it should be underground. As we speak, Dallas, w/ it's highly successful new LRT is looking to undo their mistake by burying its LRT into a subway tunnel.