clvlndr

Christopher Kennedy doesn't want to build there. The Chicago MMM people don't want to build there. What's the point? Try and force them to build on the CC site and they'll walk. And will we better off w/ our empty Higbee's and undersized, flawed CC?... Do you think nationally people are clamoring to come to Cleveland so that we can thumb our noses at MMM/Kennedy to the extent we can land somebody/plan of parallel caliber? If you do, you didn't hear a lot of the knocks this city (unfairly) took during the recent NBA playoffs -- and I'm talking about comments I heard away from newspapers -- media types grateful the series ended on Thurs so they didn't have to 'suffer' a weekend in Cleveland. I know you hate FCE/Miller-Ratner, but what alternative do we have? Another 'promise' to build hotels on the current CC? And as for Cleveland's planned and promised development ... remember the promise to build a 60-story Ameritrust tower on Public Square? even after the site was cleared?... How's that going? Have you visited the Square in say, oh, the last 18 years? For the life of me, I don't know why this plan has generated so much anger and negativity here. I don't want a new tax, but how do you think financing an upgrade of the current CC would be done? At least there's something tangible and workable with the current plan. There is a huge Higbee's building sitting, waiting for development. There's hotel, retail directly at the TC site. What is there at the current CC? And please, don't give me this: Tower City is killing street retail... no, WE are killing street retail. In no city do I know of, but this one, where a mall has allegedly killed street retail... Let this plan play out; put aside the gripes w/ FCE and let some real business and hotel growth occur downtown. As the old saying goes: 'A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush.' Dude, let go.

^This small corridor where all these closings are/have occurring/occurred is outside Wolstein's footprint which, I thought, ends at the Main Ave Bridge... To my knowledge, there's no immediate talk of development in the immediate area of all these closings other than news -- I've only heard on UO -- that the Watermark is reopening (though I've seen no signs of this driving past there). And if you're telling my Arhaus was buzzing, too, before it went out, it all really smells. Whatever the reason, it yet another kick in the solar plexus by our civic-minded entrepreneurs to a downtown struggling on the comeback trail.

Peabody, as a SB resident and as a female, you're thoughts on this are insightful... Personally, I think this stinks. I had a girlfriend in Philly who, for a time, lived near a major strip joint. Light prostitution arose in the parking lot and I often had to walk my GF thru the area -- esp at night -- b/c she'd be harassed variously by customers and/or johns. I think the Strip proposal sucks. I agree that Diamonds alone is rather low key and kinda out of the way. Now, this area promises to become a Cleveland version of Baltimore's infamous Block. But it's way to close to Stonebridge and its proposed super expansion -- just a quick stroll over Center St. Bridge... What were planners thinking (or not thinking)? Did the Port Authority (and or the CPC) simply panic and cave in so as to settle with Flynt -- who just (slickly) spent thousands in reno work on his place knowing he's dead in the middle of Wolstein's footprint? Why stick this stripper's alley almost adjacent to the largest and one of the few really significant, new high density developments in downtown? In all of Cleveland, for that matter!? And you can bet, like roaches, other 'clubs' are going to pop up around the edges despite pius talk by officials... Do our public officials really have their collective heads that far up there arses? And let's face it, this area is not all that far from Wolstein's planned development either... For someone who loved the old Flats just a decade ago, does this Strip Dist as part of its new incarnation really excite anyone? -- oops, sorry, poor choice of words. And the fact that this area is already designated as the strip area -- which you know will morph into a red light district-- is bad news. I know, peabody, you said SB residents are understandably upset about this, but is Bob Corna speaking on this issue? This could potentially, obviously, negatively impact the value of Stonebridge.

Seems rather strange. I don't doubt biz has dropped off w/ Wolstein's demo activities at the northern end. Still, BW3 was always hopping with activity and customers, esp on game days/nights. And if biz was was down, why couldn't the rest of the operation subsidise it thru the down times until, w/ Wolstein, it turns good. BW3s a chain, after all, a national, successful one at that. I don't know all the niceties behind the scenes and can't dictate to any business owner to bathe themselves in red ink for the good of downtown... Still, this feels like yet another kick in the teeth... 1st Odeon closed; then Arhaus did its civic duty, much like Joseph-Beth books in Shaker Sq: they closed up and ran to the burbs -- JB did so after a mere 2.5 years, no less. Why bother if they're not really committed. At least Arhaus stayed for a couple decades. Seems businesses quit on Cleveland a lot faster than its citizens.

^^thanks for the news as always, noozer... It's interesting to juxtapose nations, continents. The addition of a train, the 2nd Cascades Train to Canada, is cause for a national press release exciting near celebration here in the car-crazy/air-crazy USA, in some quarters ... Adding such a new train in Europe?... probably rates only a taped up notice on the stationmaster's window.

... like they say, payback is a mother...

StrapHanger, that's good catch. But as amusing as it is on the one hand, on the other, it shows RTA's either total contempt or, at least, negligence toward the Rapid, which should be the jewel of our transit system. Just one more piece of evidence of where Joe Calabrese's head is.

Yes, the sign on the eastbound platform has Blue and Green line stops (also weirdly sheathed in Red) but omits stops west of the Square, essentially listing the stops passengers will encounter if they board eastbound trains. This is a pretty common practice for modern transit signage; I first noticed it done on the D.C. Metro. Recent signs on the Red Line have also been following this practice. Yes, I too was going to mention the "do not cross tracks" @ the crosswalk, but can't make out what the picture notes. This sign was probably intended to be placed at the opposite end of the platform where there's no crosswalk near where the recent wheelchair blocks were built.

As an Arts patron, I positively love what Det-Shoreway is doing at Gordon Square, esp w/ the theatres and coffee shops. Love the old housing nearby; some still needs some rehabbing; but Battery Park and the lake are nearby... Also, the frequent 326 Bus is, what, 8-10 mins from downtown?

MTS, I know when I travel to a city, particularly one I'm unfamiliar with, I always choose the hotel with substantial restaurants, retail and foot traffic right outside my door. Call me lazy (you'd be crazy to since I walk all over some of the largest downtowns in this country and overseas); but when it comes to where I lay my head, I want all the excitement at my door. I don't want to have to walk even 2 or 3 blocks to get there. I want that pulse right there. You can't say that about the Channel 3/future Staybridge building. While the Board of Ed across the street, is architecturally stately (like Public Hall and City Hall that frame the north end of the street), when can you tell me, aside from a large special event, like a Browns game, is there a lot of foot traffic on E. 6th. After 5p and on weekends, absent a major event at the Convention Center, all those beautiful public buildings are shuddered. And what foot traffic there is in the area tend to be sucked away by nearby streets where there is a modicum of retail like E. 9th and Superior – and both these corridors are light compared to Gateway/E. 4th and the WHD… What restaurants, for example, are right there adjacent to Staybridge, MTS? Again, while I’m not saying the location stinks, it’s not bad. But it’s anything but “perfect”. Try the vacant lot at E. 4 & Prospect; or where the Double Tree failed at Lakeside & W. 6th. Both those locations whip the Channel 3 building. I’d even prefer Holiday Inn Lakeside which, although in an area devoid of foot-traffic/retail, it at least is (amazingly) the only hotel we have on the Lakefront w/ awesome views of the Lake and is closest to the Rock Hall – a fact Holiday Inn touts prominently in its literature.

^EXCELLENT!!!!

... how about the fact that the route sign, here as well as the outbound side, has the rapid lines designated in RED while these are the BLUE and GREEN lines as opposed to the existing RED line?... I too really dig the Shaker Sq improvements; its a warm, welcoming and safe place while remaining in architectural harmony with the historic Square. But the goofball color coding of the Rapid routes on the new signs have always struck me.

"The vast majority of Utahns really like their cars and being able to go where they want, when they want," said Rep. John Dougall, R-American Fork. "My question is, how much are riders willing to pay (for public transportation) and to what extent should the public subsidize it?" Seems every American metro area, save those in the smarter Northeast, have so many politicians (and unfailingly Republican) like this... and of course YOU KNOW conservative Utah has them in abundance. But can someone explain why clowns like these always seem to get away with setting up, unchallenged, the false dichotomy of "... if you accept/support transit, you can't use your cars." Almost as if government is coming to impound citizens' cars en masse if transit is built. Kinda like the gun debate: if your for at least a modicum of control of, say, .50 caliber assault weapons your an advocate for taking everyone's legal gun away... huh!? Of course this is the good ol' US of A, where policis-by-fear has been the sine qua non of American society since the Civil War. Not surprising, then, you know who is in the White House. #### btw, sorry to beat this old horse: but despite the severe funding hurdles for PAT and SEPTA, it still rankles me than Pittsburgh, as smaller city/region facing similar economical challegnes as Cleveland, is so forward so aggressively with its subway extension while we in Cleveland have (drum roll)... ECP... and anti-rail Joe Calabrese helming RTA, to boot!

Indeed, Philadelphia has an even more difficult proposition as it is both a city and county but with a huge transit infrastructure that fans well beyond the city/county borders. And yet, the overwhelming commuter base is, not surprisingly, inside Philadelphia -- which is, of course, why city leaders always, justifiably, scream about that the SEPTA board seats are overwhelmingly suburban (something akin to 12-to-3; I forget the exact numbers). So Philly couldn't run an RTA or tax like RTA; it would have to tax each region where transit lies. But do you think just because, say, Chester County, and outer region in the Philly metro area, would buy a same-level tax as Philly just because a few a tentacle of regional rail plus a few rush hour, suburban bus lines reach inside its borders? Fat chance. Of course, as has been much discussed, Greater Cleveland has a parallel hurdle of partnering with neighboring counties to help fund planned commuter rail extending outside Cuyahoga county -- as have existed for over a century in, say, ... Philadelphia. It makes it even tougher when the ex-urban population grows with, often, more conservative types who often move there in the 1st place with the distinct intent to be as far away from the center city, and it's "problems", as possible. To these folks, more taxes to fund core-based urban transit is about as welcome as the flu.

Very true. Fact is it's quite a bit tougher to grow transit in a city where growth is stagnant or shrinking, as in Cleveland. That's not to give us a total bye, b/c I don't think we're doing all we can, transit-wise. But Seattle, as a growth region with a newer, white collar technical economic base as opposed to an industrial town, like ours, struggling to change over, is a different kettle of fish altogether.

I can't think of a another big city in Cleveland's region and position: extremely cold (and long) winters, hot summers and limited road budget, that doesn't have Cleveland's problem with streets: Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, ... you name it. The weather extremes contorts and opens craters in the pavement, esp asphalt, every year... Why single out us. This combination, along with extreme winter road salt that eats at your car's undercarriage, is a fact of life in any of these cities.

Dude its in a perfect location! What are you talking about? What do you mean "we foolishly stick it back-avenue Carnegie near a bunch of freeway exits away from the hubs of downtown foot traffic." Come on already - how do you know the developer/owner/franchisee didn't want that location to begin with? I agree its not what I would call a prime location, but it is a solid hotel that gets good marks. MTS, I disagree Staybridge's hotel is a "perfect location". It's not horrible and, as I said, I'd rather see the old Channel 3 building put to this use rather than sit there -- and it'll boost our downtown hotel room total, too (to over 4K). But I'd rather have a hotel closer to, and more in position to contribute to, the existing nodes of activity we have downtown: Gateway, WHD or, to some degree, Public Sq, which is kinda sits btw but is really a little more Gateway. As to Hilton Garden Inn, the fact it is a fine hotel (I never said it wasn't) underscores my point on both counts. The location stinks, unless you want to drive in, walk across (catty corner) to the Jake for a Tribe game, then make a quick freeway getaway. Yes, a developer threw this thing in an area that has little impact on areas we want to build on. It typically was no doubt more expedient, and hence less expensive, for the developer. I just wish that one of the few substantial, new ground-up hotels could have been better placed; maybe encouraged by 'leadership' to provide more synergy downtown where we need it, not hidden away at the far edge flush against the Inner Belt in a no-man's-land zone, that's all.

Point of fact is, though its a very desirable and growing city, Seattle has been close to a disaster for rail transit planning. To date, they are the last major West Coast city without rapid transit (even Sacramento and San Jose have systems). Seattle built their downtown Metro tunnel for buses and rail in the early 90s (they did smartly hang on to their trolley bus sysemt), but the rail embedded in concrete was incorrectly placed and had to be dug up and relaid for the new LRT to the tune of 10s of $Millions, not to mention shutting the tunnel to buses and clogging downtown streets in the interim. Rail and buses will probably clog the tunnels and slow LRT -- let's see how that works out; I'm skeptical. The current Seattle LRT (SeaTac Airport to Univ. Washington) moving to completion (very soon) plus the projected extension, I think projected for completion (no sooner than 2012, if I recall) will still mean Seattle will have around 20-24 miles of rapid transit to Cleveland's 34. So I don't see how Seattle supposedly shames us. They do have a rush-hour (w/ no against-the-grain runs) commuter rail line from Tacoma to Everett via downtown Seattle, but Cleveland's working on the Lorain line as well as extending cvsr to Tower City plus the Ohio Hub Amtrak which would probably have a commuter rail portion. Again, I don't get Seattle's superiority, here. Kevin obviously didn't do his homework.

^ read again. I for one and not 'criticizing' ECP so much as I am the mentality that says it's the best that could be done.

I'm not doing handsprings about this, but it's certainly better than the derilect building sitting there now. The location isn't my ideal for a new hotel even though, of course, its close to the current convention center. I just don't understand why we can't seem to build a new hotel somewhere downtown, even if its not the mega-hotel we need (absent being attached to some new or rejuvinated convention center).. ... and then when we do build a ground-up nice new major hotel, like the Hilton Garden Inn, we foolishly stick it back-avenue Carnegie near a bunch of freeway exits away from the hubs of downtown foot traffic.

I don't like a new tax. Don't like bypassing the voters, to a degree. However, if this becomes a political football, it will go down to defeat just like Issue 2. You know that. I wish more creative funding could be found, but what choice is there? Are we better off with no Medical Merchandise Mart/new convention center, a struggling Tower City and near empty500K+ sq ft retail/office structure like old Higbees in the center of town?

As Bill Clinton would say, CTownsFinest: I feel your pain. I love this town but defeatism is often owned by us; like City that Doesn’t work is our motto as much as the City that Works is Chicago’s (and the can-do, perpetual upbeat attitude of the Windy City is palpable when you go there to this moment). ECP is what it is; I've bellyached enough about it and come to terms with it... That said, though, the perception put forward here: that somehow ECP was 'inevitable' and that a subway was not right for this corridor b/c of a lack of density, is total Cleveland defeatism. I've written that Cleveland probably doesn't have the current density and (DC-type) explosive population growth for a DC Metro-sized system, but have always felt a subway should have been built up Euclid... That we have an established, ... dare I say, old, working rapid transit system and, yet, STILL couldn't build a subway makes this all the more an embarrassment and shame for our city. Face it UOers, on this project, we’ve collectively blown it. St. Louis, Pittsburgh and even the aforementioned tiny Buffalo were all able to build subways; all smaller and less dense than Cleveland. All, like us, Rust Belt towns with shrinking populations... So there's no excuse for us not getting Dual Hub done... none at all. KJP has deftly documented both the saga of subway attempts for downtown and/or this corridor dating all the way back to World War I up until Dual Hub which failed in the 1990s leading to ECP. KJP and others have documented high density areas along the corridor in adjacent Hough as well as U.Circle, like that Hollywood neighborhood of brownstone apartments I’d never heard of around where Lexington Village now is. Are you going to tell me the density didn’t or couldn’t exist when you look at old photos of Doan’s Corners at E. 105 & Euclid? This area was so thick with elegant high-rise apartments, movie houses and high-end retail it was called Cleveland’s Second Downtown. Had we built subway in, at least the 40s or 50s, Doan would make Shaker Square look like Wooster. But we didn’t get it done. When the newly founded RTA was struggling to extend the Green Line a mere 1.5 miles to I-271 and the mode mixer lot that would have served a wide swath of the county, the late great Herb Kamm (I think of the old Cleveland Press) predicted it wouldn’t happen because this town/region “… lacked the political will and/or courage.” Sadly, he was right. Much of what I, and dare I say many UOers love about Cleveland, was built during the go-go can-do period of Cleveland by greats such as the Mathers, John D., the Vans, Tom L. Johnson, and many, many others. I’m not saying we haven’t done nice things since then, but we’re too often resting on our Art Museum/Arcade/Terminal Tower/U. Circle/Playhouse Sq., etc. laurels and seem incapable of pulling off things that are ‘really big’ anymore. And yet, like with ECP, we look for ways to justify failure, much like we shrug our shoulders say, for example, the demise of the old, great Flats – one of the nation’s leading (and noteworthy) entertainment districts, was somehow inevitable. … no it wasn’t; no more so than ECP when most normal city’s that had such past achievements as our rapid transit (and don’t think it’s not; just visit Detroit, Indy & Milwaukee if you think it is) would have built a subway or, at the very least, a subway (downtown) surface/light rail combo…. And now we have the aggravation of messy project that inconveniences and dirties our town, esp downtown, while yet failing to capture the interest or fancy of the populace, like a subway would have; which would have allowed most of us to more happily tolerate the dust and dirt anticipating more than just a glorified bus-way. I hope ECP works to curb at least some of the embarrassing, widespread blight through our Midtown-central corridor that causes many visitors to often lump Cleveland with Detroit (the kind a subway surely would have arrested, much like it did in Atlanta’s Peachtree corridor). Early evidence suggests it can and, on that level, I’ll be pleased and live with ECP which, at the very least is transit and not another freeway like that foolish freeway/freeway light (the so-called Opportunity Corridor – don’t’ get me started) down our collective throats. Just don’t come on here telling people like me, CTownsFinest, mrnyc and others (dare I speak for them) that somehow this glorified busway was somehow inevitable or is somehow best for a supposedly city like ours… … for, to you, I can only say: Only in Cleveland.

Love this scene. I call it the Corridor of Great Potential. If we could get some major retail into May's and some mixed-use project in the vacant Goldfish Army-Navy block across from booming Flannery's, it would greatly complement MRN's E.4th St. and the bars/restaurants around the Pointe at Prospect & Huron.

... btw, Constantino's Market was a HUGE leap forward for downtown, and this year, they lengthened their weekday hours to 10p. It's a little high-end and a tad limited (if you want full service, hop a bus or train to Dave's), but very nice. We need MORE of these kinds of businesses in addition to some of the more knock-your-socks-off retail I suggested. ... btw, CVS @ Euclid/E. 9th recently extended to 8p... all right, party time!!!

I'm aware of that, and that's nice, but I think we need one closer to where most of the population currently lives and visitors/commuters travel to -- preferably closer to Public Sq./Gateway (which is still close to the WHD) or in Stark's Pesht Phase I footprint.