clvlndr

I don't doubt this plan is very good. However, I just think, if we're going to develop serious TOD at W. 117, I'd perfer rapid transit over commuter rail. Not only that, the stub off the Red Line @ W. Blvd would be cheap -- an at-grade extension for less than a mile. W. 117 & Detroit/Clifton already has lots population and retail; but w/ TOD, light-frequency, slow-boarding commuter rail, nice though it is, is not preferable with a close-in, high-density TOD development of the type... Sure, JoeC will jump half the way up Terminal Tower at the suggestion and commission a study to try and prove how buses are superior than rapid transit... Also, btw, I agree w/ DaninDC that the West Blvd station should have TOD over parking. That stretch btw Berea Rd and W. 110 along Detroit should be developed with apts/condos. The Chicle development is good, but not nearly enough.

^great idea as, I'd guess, the W. 117 location has the highest population density of all Lorain-commuter line stops. Actually, I've always wished RTA would extend a 1-2 stop Red Line stub at least to this location, creating a Red Line/Lorain commuter rail/RTA bus transfer station/terminal here would be more than awesome... but that's being greedy, I guess, esp here in Cleveland...

Does Cleveland's historic preservation commission have any backbone; real power? Some demo's, occasionally, do make sense IF there's a larger good involved and little to know use for such buildings in a GREATLY IMPROVED scheme -- Wolstein's East Bank proposal viz the (rather faceless) warehouse buildings existing. But such demolition so ONLY come after extensive/intensive adaptive reuse study... A blanket no-demolition policy can be as limiting and suffocating to positive growth and development as a the free-swinging wrecking ball we've (too much) had in Cleveland's more recent history.

at some point in the future, there will be a discussion and purchase of new rail vehicles - possibly changing the entire system to run on consistent vehicles. but this is likely years away as the blue/green line trains are now being renovated to extend their useful life. probably at least 15 years before we'll see a new rail car purchase is my guess, unless we see some expansion of light rail routes. i prefer the low floor entry of the VTA in san jose. it also has room for 3 bikes in the middle of each car. but, VTA also didn't make very smart busines decisions, selling cars to salt lake that still had a lot of use. Low floor is an attractive technology, to be sure... I think, though, from what I've seen, anyway, is that the transit systems that utilize it have extensive in-street running. While the current Blue-Green-WFL system has considerable at-grade running, cars don't board in streets or at curbside, so the slight raised platform seems less an issue; but I'll admit, even RTA's LRT slight elevation/step climb can, I'm sure reek havoc on those of limited (or no) ambulatory ability -- we're all going to get old sometimes and more power to the youthful individuals already facing such obstacles... I'm glad for the ADA facilities that are being phased in at more Blue/Green stations, but I have to say, having watched them being used, they seem quite clunky, slow to implement and, often, beyond the comprehension of some RTA drivers to use. As to the possibility of a "uniform rail car" in the distant future, I know this is RTA's dream for some. However, given the extreme expense in retrofitting Red Line stations to make them low, some kind of high-low entry car would have to be designed to meet both platform heights. A few cities have such LRT's currently (Pittsburgh comes to mind). Could high/low-floor cars be built? I'm sure they could.. I sometimes wonder whether the current system, although awkward to some, isn't preferable. I know the idea of a thru Shaker-to-airport run is attractive, but is the cost worth it? Will that many more people be persuaded to use the Rapid to the Airport if the (relatively painless) transfer among lines is eliminated? Enough to justify the cost? Don't know... I think there are more pressing immediate needs to attend to for our rail system -- like the fare system; TOD, finishing the LRT car rehab (and implementing one for HRT/Red Line cars) and the like. BTW, along these lines, I was recently in Chicago riding on one of the newer, U.P. double-deck cars and, aside from the fact trains boarded/ran on the "wrong side"/wrong way on 2-way track, these very unusual but nice cars (running along the best run diesel commuter rail system, imho) had their own "low floor" technology so that you barely stepped up from the low platform into the car which, though, like RTA's current ADA-compliant buses, had step-up riding compartments at either end. These were double-deck cars with the, somewhat unusual, narrow upper galleries which open to into the lower/central aisle as opposed to most double-deck cars I've seen (i.e. in S. FLA and in the D.C. area) which have totally separate floors/levels... it seems 'low floor' technology isn't just limited to LRT...

^Let's hope so, KJP. Your current Lorain/West Shore commuter rail initiative, as a demonstration project perhaps utilizing 2nd-hand (but in good shape) commuter equipment is quite promising, as is Mayor Jackson's people's interest in the project as well as the stakeholders'. It almost makes too much sense. I don't see how anyone could logically be against it.

I would only relocate the WFL north if there was some coordinated, density development that went along with it. Otherwise, just to relocate it to be closer to the museums isn't worth (and btw, I think it currently serves both museums pretty well; I don't get the "backtracking" comment). Right now, there's no right of way for the WFL other than where it is. And I certainly don't get gildone's comment at all -- how would the WFL be "in the way" of platform space of the North Coast Transp center. I thought the Waterfront Line would be an integral part of it serving to shuttle passengers btw there, the Flats and Tower City/Public Sq. I think turning the WFL into a streetcar in a low-density development is counterproductive, esp if the line is ever to be extended along the East Lakefront to spur high-density residential development, which it should. At the CPC's comments about improving 'West Shore Corridor Transit Improvements,' methinks the vagueness of the "goal" is a giant door opener for JoeC's precious BRT and not rail, commuter rail, rapid transit or otherwise.

... or, if you want to see them here now, do the next best thing: fly or hop in the car to D.C., Balto of Philly to see Acela, our version. At a premium buck, of course. The sad thing is that, as good as Acela is along the Eastern Seaboard, it's so absurdly expensive to ride, that it's much, much cheaper to fly from one end (Philly/D.C. to the other Boston/Providence) than taking the train... Only in America. It is quite sobering -- downright depressing -- that, here in Ohio, we're begging for just regular old diesel rail to connect the 3 Cs, our 3 largest cities... What are we in the friggin' stone age here? Don't you think if regular folk had access to this info & pics they'd revolt and toss out ever pol that ever objected to passenger rail? Argh, Ohio!!!!

It's quite a beautiful complex. I'd say, it ranks right with Moreland Courts as, probably, one of Cleveland's, certainly the East Side's, most elegant and influential in its day. I can only imagine what this immediate area been like, today, had Doan's Corners survived as Cleveland's high-density 2nd Downtown. With Park Lane Villa sitting on its slight eminence overlooking MLK and the beginnings of Rockerfeller Park, this part of Cleveland had the look and feel of NYC's Central Park... still does, on some levels.

Right, BuckeyeB... Equally as sobering, in addition to Cleveland, Ohio's largest metro area with both trains (round trip, meaning all 4) on the 2 lines are in these wee hours, Cincy, has only one line, one train (if I'm not mistaken), the Cardinal, ... and Columbus, ... zippo! As noozer correctly notes, we're merely 'flyover' country for Amtrak... And unlike Chicago Amtrak satelites: Milwaukee, Detroit and St. Louis, there's no regional service linking any Ohio city to Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh or any place else. This, despite Ohio's being the Midwest's 2nd most populous state behind Illinois (and we at least match, or even surpass, Michigan as an industrial/ center -- well, Detroit might trump that; I could be wrong, but the point remains valid, anyway) .... Ohio screams for Ohio Hub!

Great news. Obviously some smart (business) cookie realized she/he had: a) an historic building, b) in an historic hood that happens to be one of Cleveland's hottest. I'm not surprised Parker's spot flipped so quickly.

I don't fault your effort, because more of us need to write strong, intelligent letters like this... but, yes, I'd have pumped the Ohio-Hub more. Actually, other parts of the country (the East, Chicago, Michigan and other Midwestern states) are putting more money into Amtrak through their state apparatuses. Ohio remains, probably, the lone Eastern/Midwestern industrial state that doesn't fund Amtrak services, locally. We're a backward state and the heat must be put on our LOCAL leaders to support such a positive initiative as the Ohio-Hub... because other states and regions are literally leaving Ohio in the dust.

I agree, I think UC will be the booming hood which is why I voted for it. However, I disagree that the growth of either CC and UH will help UC's success. In fact, I feel exactly the opposite. I think these huge, souless institutions have snuffed out too much residential/commercial life as it is, esp UH, which has gobbled up a ton of old apartment buildings and houses (often to parking garages!) and, now, my beloved Club Isabella is succoring to UH expansion. Actually, I really don't consider CC in UC anyway. I also disagree that ECP is going to have much positive impact on the neighborhood. I think the Red Line Rapid, w/ the E. 120 relocation near the Triangle, will have a much bigger and better impact. I also don't consider Beacon Place in UC either -- it's in Hough, really. I think the Triangle (if we can ever get a solvent developer and if we can ever put a leash on the Hessler NIMBY/BANANAs) will be the lynchpin in UC's success. I also think the development of the quadrangle, the Park Lane Villa and E.105/108 housing rehab, along with greater linkage with Little Italy, will also push the UC area forward.

btw, is there any new TOD talk at the W. 117 Rapid station?

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=23556 Jan 19, 2007 By Greg Hinz Crain's Investigates: What's wrong with the CTA A $6-billion shortfall. Suspect decisions. Soaring ridership. Can our train system be fixed? Business travelers on Blue Line trains crawl downtown from O'Hare International Airport at speeds as low as 15 miles an hour — half the speed of a fast horse. Loop office workers from the North Side jam Red Line cars for a trip that can take an hour thanks to aging rails, agonizing slow zones and balky switches. Brown Line riders face more than two years of construction delays that could double their travel time, but won't upgrade the line's structure or signals.

The U.S. used to have some like Europe's stations. I think St. Louis Union Station, now a mega-mall, had a large Euro-type train shed from the photos I've seen... Also, another station contemporary to St. Louis was Philly's Reading Terminal which, now, has been converted into a large convention ballroom/exhibit room, but where artists have fancifully painted "tracks" on the floor mimicking where the trains (mainly electric commuter trains) came in). Before D.C. Union Station had its massive rehab (and shoppingmallization), it used to be European-like, if I recall.

... yeah, I dig Windhorst, too. He's by far the best Cavs writer in the NEO.

I actually had my 1st experience w/ the PM 2 years ago when me & friends went to a Lions game (I know, what were we, friggin' nuts or simply bored out of our skulls? -- tics were free, though!)... We shuttled around to RenCen then over to Greektown... Trains were jam-packed and people seemed to enjoy the experience; no one felt threatened or harassed by panhandlers, etc.... It even had a little Chicago L flava'... I thing the PM is a crappy operation right now, but it could be expanded and made to work. It's fun! If Detroit would double track the thing and extend it up the middle of Woodward to New Center, it would be a red hot attraction. And frankly, all those architecture buffs who would scream should be quieted... I think sleek, modern single concrete pole viaduct up the middle of Woodward would not harm the historic structures. It actually would, as its doing now, add a zest and interesting spin to downtown Detroit. I think engineers should tinker with the technology to lengthen the cars to, say, 4 or 6 or, if it is double tracked, increase the frequency quite a bit. PM's connecting to New Center could interface w/ Amtrak, commuter rail and (hopefully) LRT someday...

What's the latest on the Jay Street/Post Office loft conversion/construction? Last time I was over there a few weeks ago, things seemed to have ground to a halt -- not much more (if any) progress from my last visit about a month before. Is there inside work going on inside the old P.O. itself? A Labor dispute? Financing issues, etc....?

Wow, that's a toughie, as all Ohio papers I know of have serious shortcomings... I guess, of the ones that have the least, I'd go with: The Free Times ... The Cincy Enquirer seems pretty good, as city dailies go in this state... Too bad it reps such a conservative city. :wink:

Been done...

... and to think, here in Ohio, the 3 Big Cs aren't even connected by Amtrak... How absurd as that? And we can only hope and pray the Ohio Hub plan goes through (and that some Republican or some backward, NIMBY town, like Silver Lake) doesn't derail it, so to speak...

I understand your point, blinker, but maybe the Commons portion will at least somewhat pay homage to pedestrians... As I've said, before, I think the city and developers are ignoring peds in the east/west bank connection around the Center Street bridge which, on foot, is a totally unique walking experience. I'd like to see more materialization of K&D's plans for planned phases to think, just yet, they've gone totally suburban on us...

I forgot about L.A., too... quite a busy place these days with Amtrak (particularly the busy/frequent San Diego service), Metro-Link commuter rail, MTA's heavy rail Red Line and LRT Gold Line.

I forgot about Chicago's other stations -- all stubs... Ironically, I was thinking of only station named "Union Station", where Amtrak goes today. Historically speaking, though, it was anything but.

Dan, you raise a good rebuttal... off the top of my head, I can think of Detroit's old Michigan Central and, I believe, St. Louis' old Union Station. In Canada, I believe Montreal and Toronto has them, although, Montreal does have, I believe, Central which, like Terminal Tower, with an electrified ROW underground into its station and thru downtown -- the electric Deux Mountain (sp) commuter line still uses this route, as I understand. Maybe I'm a little shaky on the stub-end aspect, but you have to agree, its very rare in having main railroad stations, like Terminal Tower, so close to, or at, the middle of the CBD (obviously influenced by the Van's original, driving motivation to place their Shaker Rapid terminal near offices and jobs). I suspect this is because, before diesels -- and electric ts on the East Coast, these stations were planned and built during the steam era, with engines belching building-fouling smoke and soot and wide, eyesore RR yards.