clvlndr

Yes! The CVS at 9th & Euclid, with it's 6pm closing is really absurd. It's sandwitched in btw flourishing E. 4th and the growing Corner Alley and residential crowd and other Gateway properties along Prospect/Huron like Osborne, Huron, Pointe @ Gateway, Statler and many others coming on-line ... not to mention the Arcade-Hyatt, Residence Inn, Holiday Inn Select, Radisson and a bunch of other boutique and other hotels in the area. ... someone needs to tap CVS on the shoulder and say: wake up, dudes. Is anyone approaching Joe Cimperman about this?

^^ don't nap on Berea, which has a really nice little, walkable downtown and combines a classic old, rural-type college town cheek-to-jowl with a modern burb close-in to a major city... To me, it's one of the best West Side burbs.

... I hope Watermark can breathe life back into lower Flats East Bank which, with apartments/condos, the grassy Settlers Landing park, is the most viable portion of E. Bank surviving... One thing, though, is a decision needs to be made on Odeon (if anybody knows anything ...). I say tear down; it's a big ugly eyesore warehouse that faces the handsome Watermark and blocks development. A tall, slender luxury condo high-rise with street restaurant/retail would be awesome for this tight corner.

Awesome news. I loved the Watermark; a definite asset to Cleveland. The jazz piano twist should make the new one even better.

Note: the News is the conservative of Detroit's 2 papers, so this editorial isn't surprising Park expansion plans for the People Mover The Detroit News Advertisement Get free headlines by e-mail NEW! Get text alerts on your cell phone Public transportation is critical to the residents of Detroit, but the People Mover, for the most part, isn't a part of most residents' daily travel plans. In fact, the driverless elevated train system that has been circling the city's core for nearly 20 years hardly registers with most people, save the few who shuttle around town for lunch or the occasional ride to Cobo Center or Joe Louis Arena for a special event. So it makes no sense to put any public money into a fledgling effort to double the length of the People Mover by extending it to the New Center area. Significant and long-term gains in ridership and service levels must be achieved before any real expansion plans can be considered, and only then if funded by private money. The proposal being floated by former People Mover manager Marsden Burger would extend the tram system three miles north of the loop it now encompasses to West Grand Boulevard. It would tie in to the Amtrak station and the campuses of Wayne State University, the Detroit Medical Center and Henry Ford Hospital. But not even the recent increase in ridership justifies the estimated $200 million it would cost to add three more miles to the system. The Super Bowl, Major League Baseball All-Star Game and the World Series helped boost the People Mover's 2006 ridership total to nearly 2.4 million people, an increase of 32 percent from 2005. The tram system hasn't been that well ridden since 2001 but has seen levels as low as 953,000 as recently as 2004. It is good to see expanded use of the system and every new rider who doesn't get stuck between stations or have an extensive wait for a ride (chronic problems in the past) provides hope that the system might someday reach its potential. But it has a long way to go. Only about 10 percent of the system's seats are used, and it costs $8.3 million a year in city and state subsidies to keep the People Mover moving. Every 50-cent ride is subsidized by $3 in public money. Adding up to $200 million or more in construction and land acquisition costs isn't a wise investment and certainly not if it's borne by taxpayers. The current People Mover loop also cost $200 million to build and was plagued by cost overruns and construction delays. It took four years to get the People Mover up and running, which is the same amount of time expected for the extension. Significant obstacles stand in the way, including the attraction of grant money to fund a $200,000 feasibility study, which would help determine a northbound route running parallel with Woodward Avenue on Brush, John R and Cass. Detroit has significant public transportation issues, including a dysfunctional bus system, that deserve greater attention. Fixing them would make more sense than sending mostly empty People Mover trains into new neighborhoods.

So "ugly" we need to tear it down? ... I think, not.

Interesting ideas but, ultimately, I think the train station was built in the right place even though we (short-sightedly imho) chose to abandon the Square to the point where, now, it's really too late to go back as we've given too much train/passenger space away to retail and office development -- for the good, in many levels. As the 1921 article notes, then as now, the critical problem with the lakefront was the bottleneck caused by freight and passenger trains -- obviously, all the worse during the heyday of passenger trains in the early 20s. Keep in mind, for a couple miles east & west of the terminal/Tower City, the tracks were exclusively passenger. As for the Vans and the Rapid, it was pretty much an all or nothing deal. Had Public Sq been defeated, the Shaker line, the main impetus behind all of the Van's Cleveland development, would probably have withered and died along with the other streetcars and interurbans. The direct, grade-separated Rapid route to Public Sq, however, w/ its thru aspect (unique, as KJP has noted, since the majority of big city stations were stub-track stations, forcing trains to back out after discharging/picking up passengers-- a common aspect of many/most European stations, today), allowed, not only the Shaker Rapid to have staying power despite the decline of all other forms of electric passenger rail in Cleveland, it also allowed the Vans to plan an partially build what is the today's Red Line. Also the Terminal's Union Station was unique for a number of reasons: - it was a rare station in the center of the business district, whereas most big city stations were at the periphery or even outside their downtowns - it was one of the few, outside NY, Chicago and Philly, the brought trains in underground and which is why electric engines were needed to shuttle passenger trains through - it was one of the 1st and only to extensively develop high-density air-rights office and retail directly over the tracks thus making the actual station itself invisible from street level aside from the massive, beautiful portico on Public Square.

^^I think E.4th has it's own vibe and is distinct from WHD. For one thing, E. 4th is emerging as an all day/night place with more diverse locales. Corner Alley, alone, is responsible for a lot of this and I'm seeing a lot of families pouring into the place during the day -- what kid doesn't love to bowl? Also, HOB's restaurant, w/ it's Company Store, also draws more daytime/family crowds. W. 6th, on the other hand, is a virtual ghost town north of St. Clair until sundown. There's more buzz in other WHD areas, like W. 9th, esp around Constantinos, and the little strip of art galleries and clothing shops. Starbucks and the Chinese joint keep a buzz on lower 6th... Bottom line, I welcome both hoods. E. 4th gives us variety; the 2 complement each other.

Here's a 1921 Engineering News-Record article announcing the "Public Square Passenger Terminal Authorized." http://www.clevelandmemory.com/enr/terminal.html

Nice shots...Those Toronto residential high rises sure would look nice in downtown Cleveland esp along the lake or river downtown. I'd settle for just one of them at the moment... we can only dream....

Baltimore lost its NBA team back in the early 70s, and sat w/o an NFL club for over a decade and was not on the brink of getting one until Modell swiped the Browns and made a deal with the devil (or maybe it was the other way around). Marylanders griped about the steep price they had to pay for the Ravens... I think most of that griping stopped after Modell's boys won the Super Bowl 2001... Nevertheless, my point being -- as you seem to recognize -- is that Cleveland is a better sports town and more worthy site for an ESPN Zone. Of course, part of the criteria for a Zone, I'm sure, is a lively downtown area -- unfortunately, at the moment, B'more's plastic Inner Harbor has us beat in that sense -- again I stress: at the moment.

As I've noted before, if the Medical Merchandise Mart people are ready to build and either they and/or FCE are prepared to, in part fund a convention center at TOWER city, I'd say build on that site. As to the Mall site, what about the idea floated for turning Public Hall into a film stage/studio. This would make an ideal site as well as preserve the exterior of our historic, gorgeous Italian Renaissance edifice. Then, why not offer tax incentives for Hollywood and/or indy film studios to film here -- maybe we could stem the tide of filmmakers going to Canada due to tax or SAG issues (whatever the reason is, I'm not quite versed). We can at least get Cleveland on the film/TV map the way Baltimore has been since Barry Levinson blew up his hometown in the 80s -- and it's been going strong ever since on up to, currently, HBO's the critically acclaimed "The Wire." ... Cuyawood, anyone?

It would seem the 2nd alternative is the cheapest and makes the most sense. It would also have the least impact on the Red Line, west... And while they're at it, why not raise the CVSR from riverbed level up to RTA/Lorain Commuter track level so CVSR trains could also share the same TC terminal platforms. This would seem to make more sense than having a separate CVSR terminal wouldn't it?

I'm not a mall guy, generally, but there's something about Fashion Centre that attracts me over the average mall -- maybe it's that it's more vertical than most. Also, I like the fact that, unlike most malls (and like Tower City), it is rail transit accessible/friendly. A large number of people arrive/leave via (Metro) rail, a fact that scares most mall developers since they feel the rail would allow more access to blacks and other minorities thus brining down the mall... I despise such a racist mentality (which, btw, kept Metro from Georgetown), but it's real... doesn't seem to be hurting Fashion Centre -- w/ it's high-end retailers -- one iota.

^ I hear you... Like one city realtor guy told us, once, Clevelanders (sans UO posters) just don't get the 'urban thing'.

^also, there were a bunch of condo towers rising around the Cambridge Galleria in addition to those just finished... I recall, when Tower City was just a nice, glass-encased model sitting in the beautiful Terminal Tower foyer, there were a bunch of condo towers slated behind Tower City toward the river -- but none were built besides the mall, itself. Blame the stingy/selfish Ratners; blame the leaders; blame whoever ... that's the problem too often with Cleveland... nice plans, but no follow through.

^Yep, StrapHanger, and Cambridge Galleria which was pretty new when we last visited in 2002, was both gigantic and semi-upscale (about TC level -- Copley Place was THE upscale mall in Boston) packed w/ people, most of whom, like us, took the Green Line (LRT) to Leechmere terminal... And Copley Place, alone, makes Tower City look like a shoebox, size-wise -- it literally stretches for blocks and blocks with overhead connecting walkways (which we poo-poo here as destructive to our historic architecture -- last I looked, Boston's a tad older and more historic than Cleveland)... As for D.C., Dan, what about the Shoppes at (J.W. Marriott, flagship)? How about the Old Post Office Pavilion (made famous in that "No Way Out" scene); then there's, semi-cheezy, L'Enfant Plaza shops/mall... Then, nearby, there's Georgetown Mall... Then, just over the river/5-7 min Yellow Line Metro ride away, theres the huge, beautiful Fashion Centre at Pentagon City...Isn't there a mini-mall at 7th St/Chinatown?.. Then, Metro (Red Line) to the edge of town to the NW, there's the highly upscale Mazza Gallery. Sounds like quite a few malls to me...

No doubt. But keep in mind, downtown retail was very shaky before Tower City opened -- Halles closed a decade earlier, Mays, if I'm not mistaken, closed around the time TC opened -- I don't think it's loss can be blamed on TC, because it was seriously declining throughout the 80s -- I remember my mom used to gripe how shabby May's downtown had become... Sure, Tower City definitely hurt lower Euclid, but how come other cities -- Montreal, Toronto, Boston, D.C. and others, have major downtown malls -- in some cases, several -- and not suffered the total retail decline downtown Cleveland has. I think solely pointing at Tower City as the source of all downtown retail evil is a cop out. As is the case of most failures of dowtown -- the RTA Waterfont Line among them -- the fault lies with our leaders/developers for not following through aggressively staying ahead of the growth curve. Much of it has to do w/ the total lack of cooperation we've had development-wise: the death of a subway/dual hub, the Wolstein East Bank legal wrangling, the Davenport Bluffs failure and the Hessler Ct constant NIMBY battles are just a few examples of selfish interest stymieing positive growth and development here. Keep in mind, also, the original Terminal Tower Union Station was conceived as a shopping mall, and there was Higbees and small shops -- but nothing on the scale of Tower City. Forest City has woefully poorly managed TC, but the potential is there, given it's key location and transit connection, for it to be great -- along w/ viable retail areas along lower Euclid and in the WHD, as well.

I know downtown has its fill of sportsbars, but ESPN Zone is a cut above; a place to be. I certainly think ESPN has wrongly overlooked Cleveland as a spot for a Zone as sports crazed as this town is. I mean, are you going to tell me stinkin' Baltimore (where a major ESPN Zone is in the Inner Harbor) is a better sports town the Cleveland? I'd love to get a Niketown, as well.

If it isn't in Union Station, it's at least next door, is it not?

Tower City has slipped as a high-end mall, although I wouldn't want to go back to being simply a train station: been there, done that... Besides, Tower City still has a number of high-end retailers and restaurants attached to it, including the 2 upscale hotels. And look at the rest of downtown, retail-wise. Let's not punt on TC just yet. Also, why can't TC function as both a mall and a train station for commuters (RTA, CVSR)? St. Louis' Union Station is a huge mall, hotel and Amtrak terminal. While we can modify the Stokes tower and the Cuyahoga bridge to allow Amtrak/commuter trains in... why do it? Ain't worth it. We should stick with plans to build a main station with air rights/hotel at the end of the Mall at North Coast. We should also follow through make sure CVSR is extended to Tower City --- it appears plans have CVSR tracks/terminal is reserved for the SE corner of the convention center plan while noozer stated tracks would extend all the way to the west side to the old, defunct B & O terminal.

^ works for me.

^looks like space for about 8 tracks + platforms (besides the 2 RTA tracks). An overhead, multi-modal-transfer station with escalators, elevators and TOD/air-rights development seems like exactly what the doctor ordered for this location.

I see some of your points, but in fairness to Price & Corna, the Flats area they're developing in is, well let's just say, odd. Its urban-industrial with lots of auto but very minor foot traffic in the immediate area. I've screamed for sometime (here and elsewhere) that the City should develop a clearly lit path from the Settlers Landing Rapid stop to and across the Center Street bridge to encourage transit/pedestrian traffic -- even sprucing up retail/restaurant development around the Flat Iron but, noooo, this is car crazy/suburb oriented Cleveland so, of course -- deaf ears. Right now, I just want to see Stonebridge continue to expand despite whatever minor flaws it has. It's the only major all new, multi-unit housing project that has been built downtown in the last decade and the most promising thing we've got going. Stonebridge Commons may change the way people perceive the project... ... Still, my Q re elevator service from the Flats level to deck level via the Commons hasn't been definitively answered.

Jamie, isn't there a new club like this in the WHD around near where the 6th St market used to be?