clvlndr

^damn; Charlie's Crab was a fam fave... Someone really needs to needle Landry's about this. If not mistaken, these are the same folks that quickly folded in the Flats before the problems started down there.

^I know it was discussed, but no adequate answer was advanced. I find it incredible that RTA would potentially waste millions -- given what a Euro-style POP system (like that used in Baltimore's LRT) would save -- simply because of the paltry few who could be caught ticketless having no verifyable home addresses (what would that net in an average year? conservatively, $500 in lost fares? with the assumption being it would continually decrease after startup and public awareness of the POP system sinks in)... Maybe I'm missing something, but for one who claims to be fiscally tightfisted as JoeC constantly claims to be with rail (and we know this is a farce/cover to damage rail patronage so as to favor Joe's vaunted buses, esp BRT), this makes no sense... It should seriously be investigated, not only as a tremendous waste in taxpayer money, but also at the expense of slower/poorer operational quality of the Rapid overall.

I thought KJP reported RTA was supposed to be moving toward a Proof of Payment fare system for the Rapid. Wouldn't this $20M fare collection projected contract -- esp the faregates and turnstilles -- tend to deep-6 POP? POP sounded like a very logical system for RTA given our generally light volume which is very uneven at the various stations on heavy and light rail, alike.

I'm sure glad somebody clarified that CC is NOT in University Circle; CC is in Fairfax. It drives me bonkers that, somehow, this cold, sterile, suburban-like, city w/in-a-city development is included in UCircle when clearly it's not; that it's Intercontinental Hotel is listed as a University Circle hotel, when it's not... Don't get me wrong, I deeply appreciate the huge impact of CC on our economy, but it's NOT U. Circle. To some degree, I think including the Clinic in U. Circle has skewed UCI planning. *** On another note, I sure hope Ronayne/UCI reaches out the Hessler folks and keep them in the loop. It'll make it harder for them to be pure obstructionists if they're brought inside -- it would certainly expose their motives if, after this, they still go BANANAs.

Actually, the 1914 antitrust act is the Clayton Act, as opposed to the Sherman act, which was founded in 1890 -- the Clayton Act is more specific than the Sherman... State-based Standard Oils were actually being founded even prior to the passage of the Sherman Act, but clearly John D. was found to be restraining interstate commerce with his monopolization activities.

One points I think seicer, as do most highway advocates, misses, is that: 1) highways are always have a much more rapidly deteriorating infrastructure than mass transit so their repair/wear cycle is much more intense than a rail line (consider the Shaker/Blue-Green lines went over 60 years before they were seriously upgrades, structurally, and up to the time of the upgrade, the Shaker system mainly ran on borrowed/2nd-hand equipment but drew a far stronger per-line yield than any suburban-oriented bus line in Greater Cleveland); 2) U.S. policy always defaults to highways since Eisenhower called for an interstate hwy system in our nat'l defense -- that is, allowing ample roadways to get citizens to live in areas disperse from the aging central-core cities in case of a nuclear attack from behind the Iron Curtain... Of course, the end result has been not only the decentralization of older urban core metropolises that has resulted in "doughnut" cities like Detroit, it has caused Sunbelt cities built with almost no core -- a bunch of suburbs pushed together, more or less, like San Antonio, Houston and Phoenix. THE END RESULT BEING that people get far less bent out when tax dollars are dropped on new, superfluous/almost highway additions built (ie the Jennings Freeway; triple-laning the Ohio Turnpike in areas near Youngstown that, now, is way overcapacity), as opposed to any type of rail system -- hear the ridiculous talk, like the Republicans defeating Cincy's worthwhile light rail plan with absurd talk of "Gold plated" rail systems (can someone tell me what the hell that means!? I've yet to see a rail car either draped in gold or run on gold rails...) -- then it becomes an emotional "freedom vs. Socialist (ie, social engineering) type media conflagration and the transit proposal either dies or is tabled forever. AND YET we genuflect, as a society, to our God-defined role to fund highway expansion -- even if it is for needless, politically-tied contractor benies for Republicans (as the PD/Dispatch article notes with all the ancestral figurehead movements) -- hey, lets have more rural limited access roads to nowhere with more of fancy rest areas, Go'l darnit! ... or, the highway's country ... it simply feeds the Libertarian (every man for himself/no or minimal government) foundation that the U.S. was built on. Rapid transit systems are expensive to operate because of the high technology of their systems and rolling stock and, of course, the electricity to run them. But they really should operate within major core cities and their higher density close-in suburbs. Diesel commuter rail should pick up the slack for further out burbs and for inner city travel, viz a viz the proposed Amtrak Ohio Hub plan -- good luck with that with troglodyte, latent Republican enemies who didn't just roll over and die after Nov 7th (many of whom share, I'm sure, seicer's views). Ohioans just don't get it on this score, and it's really maddening to see this mentality fester even within the only big metro region in the State that has decent mass transit: Cleveland... Just witness the machinations of RTA president Joe Calabrese, America's only transit chief that runs a rail line who's an anti-rail (activist) opponent. Fact is: the highway system exists and won't go away so we must continue to FEED THE BEAST. However, the fact Ohio -- as backward an industrial state is in the USA -- is so lopsided and myopic in its funding and political oligarchy, has such a brain drain; such an outmigration of jobs and young people along with a declining industrial base, can't see the value of more balanced spending for transit; and that transit can actually INCREASE growth and SMART land-use potential, is positively mindboggling. One thing to note, seicer, here in Cleveland, at least there's talk of doing the right thing, as city fathers (and mothers, in the case of Jane Campbell) have decided its in our best interest to actually junk an entire freeway: the Shoreway, in favor of slower, moronically street options and (hopefully) increased rail transit in the corridor. In other words, we're opting to KILL THE BEAST, at least in this context. ***** But really, the only way we can even begin to tame the Beast is to shine the light on the hideous system of porkbarrel fatcat hwy contractors lining up to the ODOT trough. This PD article does it to a small degree, but as noted, fails to go the extra mile... Too often, the PD's good at pointing out the problem without offering a solution; and in this case, the solution's a balanced approach to funding highways AND rail passenger along with transit via dollars derived from gas taxes. Maybe, just maybe, a paradigm shift in bassackwards Ohio thinking can be accomplished thru education campaigns of more green/transit-friendly groups like EcoCity Cleveland, and others -- that spending on highway maintenance will not only DECREASE with getting more people off the roads and onto rails, but likewise, help spur a dying economy by more urban, TOD dense residential/commercial developments to more efficiently route people and goods... Because right now, as Ohio's highways get fancier and gaudier, the only people who seem to stay economically sound here are highway contractors... Ecch!!!

1) yes 2) maybe -- new hotels could be built, but not necessarily near the stadium b/c that area's slated for condos, which I'd rather see. Besides, the RTA Waterfront Rapid Line's egress/ingress makes being directly at the stadium irrelevant to fans, as Browns games currently show, and 3) doubt it. Cleveland's currently, and wisely, focusing restaurants on where it's trying to get people to live and shop as opposed to being near a concrete/steel-bowl venue like Browns Stadium. Remember, after the Games, if we hopefully get them, the stadium will once again be 10 to 12-use/year venue. Housing/retail districts are, theoretically, 365-day/year venues.

^^ ... and that's when there's cooperation... The key is commitment and getting everyone in one canoe pulling their oars in the same direction. If everyone doesn't want it and there's dissention, then it will be dragged out indefinitely. And with the Lorain commuter rail there's smoke on the horizon when Joe Calabrese, the chief of the largest transit agency (and at least part-host of the project) is going around badmouthing the project in the shadows. Very vexing, indeed.

In the end, I think the WHD and Gateway/4th are drawing more neighborhood/suburbanites back downtown again as well as opening more residential vistas, esp in/around 4th street. But as good as the one-block of 4th seems to be nearing critical mass, the area around has quite a ways to go. There are still lots of abandoned old buildings on Prospect, like the 3-building group I'll call the Goldfish Block staring back at Flannery's booth sitters, which screams for apartment/condo conversion and street-level retail... Then there's 515 Euclid. I sure hope this thing gets going. There's a spiffy new parking deck w/ ground level retail space -- much of it attractive, some multilevel -- that sits empty. All a biz needs to do is bring in furniture and hang pictures; way short of the tedious retrofits we're (thankfully) seeing in the old buildings across the street. The announcement of the proposed 28-story condo tower atop 515 would send E. 4th -- indeed all of Gateway, and much of downtown, in to the stratosphere... I'd like to think the buzz Corner Alley is creating can only bring things to a boil. I'm hoping all of this -- plus finally getting all that ECP construction crap out of there (including omnipresent ped re-routing orange plastic mesh, pylons and port-a-potty's) may, w/in the next 5 years, finally bring some major retailer into May Company's old space and finally create a bridge to Ontario (on Prospect) and Public Square (on Euclid).

I finally got down to E. 4th on a weekend; Saturday early evening -- Stuck our heads in Corner Alley for light dinner/look around. It's very impressive and alive with hordes of folks (wait list for a lane was over an hour).. Is it me, or is 4th Street buzzing like never before? Prior to Corner Alley, it always seemed there was just a small trickle of a couple pedestrians walking up and down E. 4th. Now there are several clusters of them; at one point, even a small crowd. And now customers are actually outnumbering panhandlers routinely. There was even a Cleveland Cop stationed mid-block. I'm beginning to think Gateway -- particularly E. 4th -- is seriously challenging the Warehouse District; or at least, putting some dent in it. ... Is all this sparked by Corner Alley or just a coincidence given the holiday and the unseasonably warm winter weather we've been having?

^^wow, Dan, are you actually getting a little soft on RTA? Sounds like you had a pretty good exp -- save the lack of Crocker Park hookup... Obviously, brother lives in a very transit-friendly nabe by Cleveland standards.

No, certainly you're right; if anything, it is time to really fight for things like Amtrak... politically, we're as Amtrak-friendly a state as we'll be in forseeable times.

It seems, unless the Ohio Hub Plan flies (see: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1414.0), you're not likely to see improvement in Oiho. Ohio's traditionally been an state that, while industrially strong, is anti-progressive, even backwards re: positive public works projects like train and public transp. Too much squabbling and fiefdom mentality among the cities. Almost all our neighbor states have regional funding for passenger rail -- even Indiana (for South Shore Line commuter district in Northern Ind). ... but now is clearly the hour to act on Ohio Hub with a Dem power structure in statewide. It should be the time to really push the rail agenda here... If not now, probably never for this sorry state.

I think is was the mid 80's. Sohio became BP and still was headquartered on Public Square, then a few years ago Amoco & BP merged and moved to their headquarters to Chicago (I think). That's generally correct... Sohio was the original remnant of Standard Oil, which was the 1st huge oil conglomerate founded in (about) 1870 by John D. Rockefeller. It was broken up into several smaller, regional standard oils under the Sherman Antitrust Act (1890), and became Standard Oil of Ohio (or SOHIO for short), and was HQ'd in what was the Midland building behind Terminal tower on Prospect Ave -- now part of the Landmark Office Towers... BP merged w/ SOHIO in the Mid-80s -- just after the huge Public Sq. building opened -- and, a few years later, was taken over by AMOCO and shifted to Chicago, HQ-wise... only a small remnant of the company's operations remains in Cleveland. It remains one of the biggest HQ/econ losses that's ever hit Cleveland, esp downtown.

The Rapid's definitely the way to go to see the Cavs... it's especially a Godsend for this veteran of I-271/Rte 303 backups going/coming from the old Coliseum. :wink:

Yep, there's Mosher-Jordan on the Hill. Martha-Cook's about the most beautiful and stately; it's all women.

Hayward, it's just my opinion that UM's Central Campus, overall, is bland, cold and cramped; that the Diag is more akin to an corporate/industrial office park than a college campus; not as inviting as, say, Berkeley, U. Washington, OSU's Oval/Mirror Lake area or Indiana's or Miami/Ohio's campus. Many buildings UM's aren't ugly, just bland (Ruthven museum, Haven, Modern Languages, Hill, etc.). The undergraduate library wasn't called the UgLi for nothing (although I understand, it has been improved recently)... and btw, both UM's Chemistry and Nat Sciences are Kahn factory type buildings that mirror each other and frame the north mall to the Rackham Grad school building (itself stately though somewhat bland, itself; gorgeous reading room, though) -- and I don't mean their interiors; these 2 buildings look like factory buildings from the outside; Kahn specifically designed them this way; reflective of his GM factory structures. Yes, the Law Quad is stunning. But overall, UM's campus, to me, is underwhelming, esp given the school's rep. As I said, it's a matter of opinion. #### Also, the only other state school that has a library reading room comparable, architecturally, to UM's law library is the University of Washington's (Seattle) main (Suzzallo) library, pictured below:

U-M's a very odd campus. It's generally bland, blocky and sterile, but it has its pockets of beauty, mainly the law quad. But overall, it's nothing exciting; very cramped and factory-like; Albert Kahn designed many buildings that resembled those he built for GM in the early 20th Century ... However, it has, as you can see, some spectacular interior spaces... Most of the most beautiful buildings/interiors are in related to grad programs.

Ohio is very conservative, even backwards when it comes to such public and public works programs like public transportation... Surprising for for such an industrial state. We're very balkanized; a bunch of warring cities with cities vs suburbs; north vs South; rural vs urban, etc. Hard to agree on anything worthwhile here.

U-M law library: aka, the "Legal Research Building". Ironically, the main law library is now in an adjacent building constructed underground so as not to harm the vista of this awesome beauty.

^wrong, MyTwoSense; I was correct, as stated, MRN/Trifecta "sponsored" this RTA Trolley service as indicated in RTA's own press release, to wit: http://www.gcrta.org/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=981 Come on MTS, you mean you actually think RTA under JoeC would actually do something for the betterment of the community on its own volition, esp downtown!!?? :roll: What have you been smokin' dude? ... cause whatever it is, send me some...

Smart move by MRN. The positive buzz Corner Alley is generating -- in downtown; for downtown -- is simply awesome.

Yes, I tend to think putting commuters off at that dinky Amtrak station, a good 1.5-2 miles north of where downtown fades out (really, just north of Grand Circus park) is counter productive -- though it's better than nothing. A terminal near the Joe is much better. Not only would it connect with the PM, it's near to core of downtown biz and entertainment; most notably Hart Plaza, Cobo Conv Center, the planned Riverwalk (and condos) and at least one of the casinos.

One day in the early 90s when the girlfriend had a Chicago all afternoon conference, I snuck my 1st, an only (to date) South Shore ride. What a thrill. I don't doubt those trains -- much newer then -- can fly at 90. Having been used to the usually slow-to-cruising, frequent-stop commuter trains of Philly, it was awesome to move at such great speeds. I only had time for to get to the Gary Metro Center and head back (knocked down a beer at the bar/restaurant attached to the station waiting for the return trip back). Maybe someday I can make it all the way -- or at least to Michigan City w/ its famed street trackage.

Excellent work. N-S's verbal capitulation is huge. Let's keep this train chugging along.