clvlndr

If that map is still viable, it would seem weird in keeping the median at Reserve Sq -- which, btw, is a very attractive urbanized area -- while moving to the sidewalk north of there. -- which wouldn't be all bad, but why deep-6 the median? Why not keep E.12 consistent. Again, it smacks of overplanning to me.

Wow, a subway. ... and this is the 2nd subway built in St. Louis, a town that's both smaller and less dense than Cleveland, and yet, the word subway is a curse word in Cleveland transit circles... ... guess it contrasts a "can do", cooperative spirit vs (Cleveland's) "can't do" bickering/fiefdom mentality. Ugh!!!

I'm with Hunter Morrison on this, I think destroying the median is counterproductive. Maybe the walls of the planters could be lowered a tad, but E. 12, w/ the median, is attractive, now, even without any development around it. Why kill that? And yes, Michigan Ave popped to mind as a highly successful and visually pleasing w/ a wide median with a ton of lawns and planters on the sidewalks. And even though Michigan is an exceptionally wide street, nobody there is talking about the neighborhood is split or cut off by a barrier. I think Volpe is overplanning on this one... also I too, like Htsguy, was puzzled about Volpe's comment re "... first phase of the project, along Superior Avenue at East 13th Street, could begin next winter or spring." I clearly thought buildings would be going up by the fall, at least based on the earlier PD article.

^^double Bingo! -- talk about bumping heads/criss-crossing posts thru cyberspace... urbanlife just answered my Q no. 2. You guys are good.

^noozer beat me to the punch... Would this funding come entirely through the Nat'l Park Service or would FTA be at all involved since (some of us, anyway) are eyeing cvsr through transit lenses?

There's a pdf website I ran across a few weeks ago (if I find it, I'll post it) that discussed, in detail, the planned Independence-to-tower city expansion. What was fascinating was pictures -- that looked fairly recent -- of a cvsr excursion train traveling around Collision Bend and into downtown, resting near Tower City -- point being, is that track infrastructure apparently exists right now to get the trains into downtown. Obviously, I'm sure there needs some track upgrades for comfort, speed and safety as well as that messy stuff, like trackage rights, insurance and the like...

Fair point. Jane loved face time, there wasn't a camera or ribbon cutting (even for the famed R&RHOF skateboard park) she didn't love. She was good at making a spectacle over little things... Frank may be more pragmatic and behind the scenes... maybe. But at some point, the populace needs to get a sense the mayor is doing something, and so far, Frank isn't giving me that feeling at all.

This has got to be one of the dumbest things this town has engaged in, in a long, long time. In a town lacking in downtown skyscrapers, we're actually considering demolishing one of the few we have and replacing it with a squat, boxy building (don't give me the so called exciting, sexy curves of the planned shorty replacement). And who came up w/ this absurd notion -- now Gospel-- that the Ameritrust tower is this God awful thing that must be destroyed? Please. If you want to see ugly, just look diagonally across Euclid/E.9th at that faceless white shoebox NCB defaced the corner with. Ameritrust is a Taj Mahal compared to that junk; and many others -- it is not that bad a building people; and on a level, imho, it's a svelte handsome structure w/ a Brutalistic modern sculptured facade -- not the best, mind you, but not awful either. And certainly not to the extent you'd tear it down. Consider how this stupid project lost direction (if I'm wrong, correct me please). Wasn't this supposed to be a project to combine County workers in a single location freeing up the Mall area for development (poss a rebuilt cc) and possibly creating a project that jump start life into an area of downtown? After W. 3 at the Port & WFL rapid transit line (too isolated) and Higbee's (not enough parking) were eliminated, regretfully to me, they ended up giving Dick Jacobs a sweetheart deal to take vacant Ameritrust off his hands -- while, I'm sure, in the process, plowing his money into yet another big-box suburban sprawl venture. And now, suddenly, we're going to actually waste tens of $ millions to literally tear down a viable 28-story skyscraper to build some squat palace for... county workers! huh!!?? Excuse me, am I missing something here? Am I in La La land befuddled why so many hip urbanites on this board are actually excited about this horrific boondoggle at taxpayers expense? The same taxpayers that, less than a decade ago, were ask to fork over $300M to build Fortune 200, mega-billionaire (the late) Al Lerner a playpen to lure our beloved Brownies back -- never mind, its a big, development-blocking sterile concrete bowl that's only used 10-12 times a year; and never mind the same Al Lerner helped facilitate the Browns move to begin w/ (after green-mailing Ameritrust to their knees allow the takeover by Society causing the former to abandon its skyscraper plans leaving the huge hole on Public Sq??? but I digress); and never mind that this is one of the poorest big cities in America with one of the worst homeselling records, in both the city and county. Only Peter Lawson Jones has an ounce of sense here in questioning the 'logic' of the Ameritrust demo plans of co-commissioners Hagan and DiMora (well, you know what a lightweight Jimmy is). Sorry but this farce deserves the dreaded OIC (Only in Cleveland) tag... Has this town gone stark raving mad!!??

News today that the State has finally set an execution date for Jeff Lundgren -- one of Ohio's all-time sickest creeps, gave me a sense of some joy -- and I'm anti-death penalty ... that is, in most cases. I mean, this sicko actually personally murdered an entire family -- he was the trigger man -- including little girls as young as 6 years old. If I could stick the needle myself... It also caused me to do a little research, and I didn't realize that now congressman Steve LaTourette, was the Lake County prosecutor who nailed that creep. Wonder what he's thinking today. I'm really surprised such a monster's managed to stay alive this long.

Don't get me wrong, urbanlife, I think there's a lot of potential at Ave Dist. I do think the buildings you mention -- Reseve Sq, Chesterfield and the soon to be rehabbed grande dame Parkview are high density props and can help feed off Ave Dist -- they were the original downtown residences while people living in the WHD and Gateway was just a wild idea. I'm just a little worried, per the PD article, that it's being used as a guinea pig for the others which is a little unfair because it is an untested area -- lets not forget the aforementioned apts have struggled for years; they're handsome buildings -- a bit of Chicago in downtown Cleveland -- but the area's sterile. Let's hope Ave Dist changes that; it could and it also could serve as a bridge toward the Lake and North Coast... ... along those lines, maybe someone can get RTA's ear to implement the idea I've been pushing for a while here: a new escalator entrance on E. 12th (and maybe E.13th) up from the Waterfront Line terminal at Muny Lot. Not would it serve the current structures already there: Holiday Inn, Channel 3, PUCO and the FBI; but the Ave Dist as well. Once again, RTA seemingly thumbs its nose at one of the little things that could make its train line a whole lot more successful.

The clash of the Titans in the Eastern Conf will be the Cavs & the Heat... book it!! The Pistons are declining; Ben Wallace left more than just cash. There's dissention in that locker room and there's a faction that doesn't trust Flip Saunders (esp his non-rotation w/ Antoino McDeyess) the way the did Larry... Seriously, Pope, it's more than simply trash talk to say the Cavs very well may be one of the 2 last teams playing in the NBA next season.

LovesIt - "Actually, if I were to develop in downtown it would definitely be in this section of the city. It's already got quite a bit of residential buildings and corresponding stores as you go south on E.12th. The Avenue District has me much more excited than Pesht or the new East Bank of the Flats, personally." I disagree. Like I said, I wish we'd finish one neighborhood before we start some new one in an out-of-the-way, untested area. It has pained me that so many projects have failed to get off the ground (Dist Park, Courthouse Sq., Courthouse Sq.) in our best downtown neighborhood: Warehouse. Even though Warehouse is the closest we have to a truly finished, high-density upscale in-city neighborhood we have, it still has a ways to go, most notably at Pesht w/ the acres and acres of surface parking. Right now, our downtown is like Detroit's w/ a bunch of nice yet unfinished nodes w/ little connectivity between them. I'd just like to build up some real serious density in one of those nodes before we leap 3/4 a mile cross downtown.

Neither of them impress me, really. However, at the moment, Jane is looking better to me in that, wacky & pie-in-the-sky as some of her ideas were, she at least she said something. Jackson isn't doing anything.

I sure hope this flies. THE UPSIDE - The buildings are good looking - appear to have the type of density I'd like to see in downtown. - appears to be little destruction of existing structures since these buildings appear to be rising on ugly surface parking - spinoff can really help Erieview & the beautiful Galleria shopping mall come back to life - for the "upgrade the current site" convention center camp, Ave Dist could be just the ticket as it will put a burst of residents, retail and energy just a few blocks away. THE DOWNSIDE - it's in a rather desolate, untested area away from the active nodes and is backed up against a still 'transitional' light industrial area to the east. ^I wish we'd FINISH one downtown area before we leap-frog to a new one; I'd sure like to see these buildings going up on Stark's lots along the Square - because this is an untested, isolated area, it seems rather foolhardy (per the PD's characterization) that it's being used as a trial balloon for the other developers -- I sure hope that's not the case. The other projects have locational advantages over the Ave Dist to be weighing their projects based on this one. - could it possibly suck energy away from other parts of downtown that, other than the Warehouse district, to a degree, are searching for their own strength and identity? Let's hope not. Let's hope that it's a case of: the more the merrier. If the presales are as strong as they're saying; enough to get the shovels digging in a month or so, this could be a great sign for downtown, period. Also, let's hope the other projects are far enough along to get going on their own. Ave Dist certainly can pump life into downtown, for sure.

... but back to my original point. Cleveland has some great restaurants and has been greatly improving; these new ones should really boost us. But I think we need to work on connecting neighborhoods so these new spots are less island/nodes cut off from the rest of the city-- even, say, Ponte Vecchio, though right near the Flats/Ohio City, is cut off becuase of the current lack of access from the Flats; plans in Stonebridge's current phase under construction, I'm reading, could solve this. Certainly, the lakeshore plan, when it's actually executed, will go light years toward reaching this goal.

Different players, all together. Pollard is strickly a grunt/muscle man underneath doing all the dirty work; no glamour. (think an updated Curt Rambis)... Varejao, however, can spark an offense with the deadly pick 'n roll he and LeBron were executing against Detroit; Andy really picked up his O game and his friendship and playing with LeBron really helped break through Andy's language barrier (which, I understand, Andy's worked hard to improve since his season #1). Andy's much more mobile and potentially dangerous than Pollard, although I love the depth and strength Scot gives to the Cavs. I think signing him was a great move... The Cavs look really complete right now with, possibly, the only major weakness being at point guard ... and of course, LeBron often plays that role esp in crunch time.

Great ... hey, I'd love to be wrong if it means the progress of our city.

ah, where is the Lakefront Blvd; development plan now?

Indeed. This location should be nice, but once again, it'll be another one of those typical Cleveland "islands" a sea of inactivity -- a place where you have to drive -- does a bus even serve this area? After Jane's big plans of gone the way of the do-do, we need to focus energy on extending the Waterfront Line along the lake to stimulate needed development and, hopefully, expansion at the E.55/Shoreway pier marina.

Meaning??? Everyone's perception of "safe" is different. Meaning, what everone's talking about: standing on a dank, isolated, very lightly used rapid platform, esp during the evening or night.

Actually, the current rundown Euclid-E. 120 isn't bad when you are going to Little Italy as you are leaving the station (preferably during daylight and with more than one person, which isn't often the case). If you wrap around to the right onto E. 116 and head to Mayfield via the back streets, you can avoid that -- but I'm sure you know this. It's a nice stroll up brick laden Murray Hill from the U.Circle station, but it's a much longer hump. However, upon leaving L.I., there's little choice if you value your safety; the long walk back to U.Circle is a necessity.

Blinker, I think you’re on to something. The problem, as it always is here, is the absence of leadership. Greater Cleveland’s a microcosm of the nation, politically. The sinister, divisive, libertarian (see, city-killing) movers & shakers with of a regressive mindset are super aggressive in promoting the “sprawl as freedom” “ regulation as socialism” mentality, while the other men and women in office (who may be of a more Democrat ilk) are merely status quo caretakers who are quick to throw up their ‘we can’t/too many obstacles’ hands whenever a solution is offered. I’m wondering whether it’s time to revisit the metropolitan government idea again. It always seems a nonstarter here because of our legendary territorial squabbling. I’ve never particularly been a fan of it, but I’m more open now than other. We have to start pulling together as a region; at the very least, as a county. And we must promote improved mass transit -- not as some gimmick to please a narrow interest like the (very wise) interests on this board; not as the sole tool for college-age youth and the poor but as the vehicle that can presever and enhance Greater Cleveland as a true urban area with a true city center -- the kind that existed before freeways existed. We must get pols to seriously buy in to the idea of transit and TOD growth, , we’re doomed to more and more sprawl. The ability of the Beachwoods and Independences, Westlakes and Mayfields to suck corporate and retail life out of downtown, what’s even worse is the insistence of our leaders (or better, the vacuum of leadership) that pushing for sprawl beyond even the existing sprawl (guess that’s the definition of sprawl to begin with). We’ve already seen the lifestyle district craze with Crocker and Legacy, and to a lesser extent Eton. But look at Harvard & I-271 where a large Marriott just materialized in about a year -- a Marriott that would look awfully nice in the Warehouse District about at the same plot (W .6th & Lakeside) where the 330-room DoubleTree complex failed about 5 years ago. Across Harvard, a bunch of big boxes are going. New development – sprawling, single-use office parks (and many times the concomitant cul-de-sac housing) sprouts up like mushrooms next to a freeway exit yet coughs and often dies in the city. Why? Because developers are afraid to stick their necks out in the city, particularly downtown, and banks are not backing them. We all look with envy at Chicago. It's huge and successful, yet it's Midwestern and very much like us on a larger scale. It works for a lot of reasons (cooperation and smart planning, among the big assets), but excellent mass transit is a, if not THE key element that promotes that huge urban area's tight, verticle downtown as well as its numerous walking neighborhoods. Great transit is also helping spawn inner-city gentrification on a scale no city in this country is seeing -- not even New York or D.C. And yet, I stress again, it's Midwestern. It's flat, its gigantic, got a lot of freeways (and toll roads) and, yes, appears to sprawl because it's so thick with suburbs. But yet, many of the burbs -- and and practically all small suburban districts/groups are served by some form of commuter rail; burbs with distinct downtowns centered around these rail stations and not freeway exits like those of Cleveland and Detroit -- cities that continue (doomed to forever, it seems) to look on the "capital of the Midwest" with envy. I’m not a fan of BRT/ECP, but I’ll get behind the thing if it, at least, gets this region off its ass in at least entertaining the idea of pedestrian-oriented, accessible growth along the Euclid Corridor. We must push hard for the two big potential regional rail projects: the CVSR 8 mile extension linking Cleveland, Akron and Canton as well as areas in between (including single-use sprawl areas like Steelyards and Independence; Lorain commuter rail project, linking Lakewood, our most densely populated burb, with a string of growth burbs along the West shoreline. I’m also an advocate of extending the Waterfront Line east along the lakeshore to Gordon Park; to Collinwood and possibly Euclid. Where the hell is Frank Jackson on such an obvious Smart Growh project as this? Why isn’t he, or some urban/technical person pulling his coattails about potential high-density development near a Rapid-commuter train station at West Blvd? Esp with commuter rail in tandem with existing and (hopefully, someday) expanded rapid transit, we’ve got to promote the idea of Cleveland, esp downtown, as a regional hub and not the undesirable, avoidable appendage many of the region’s suburbs look upon Cleveland as. As I always ask in this city: WHERE THE HELL IS THE LEADERSHIP!! Another incentive-oriented approach, which has been discussed here, is taxing RE by its value – esp in targeted districts, like downtown -- rather than the even, across the board square footage tax we have now. * * * btw, I agree about the PD article's lazy gloom & doom. That's par for the course for that newsrag. About the only reporter on urban issues who seems to take his/her craft seriously over there is architecture critic Steven Litt.

:-P

Gracias. :-D

I trust Litt means Mayfield when he says "Marray Hill"? Yes he does. The names Murray Hill & Little Italy are interchangable in reference to Cleveland's Italian district. An RTA station at Mayfield would be at the gateway to the neighborhood.