clvlndr

Exactly. There is no video of the conclusion "incident" that we've seen. Obviously RTA knows better than we do about what actually happened, otherwise they wouldn't be so quick to throw him under the bus (pun intended). If this was a black woman, I could see their haste to go public to avoid Al Sharpton from descending on Cleveland. But it was not, so their quick response tells even more. The irony is, based on her documented views she almost certainly believes there is such a thing as "white privilege". Guess not. Wow, really? That's pretty serious. Was it her "treating my like a criminal" comment? Do tell...

... because the Heinen's example shows that if people come together, a creative, workable solution can be had, otherwise that rotunda would be sitting there still vacant and the Breuer tower next door may likely have been torn down. Yes the County bought and preserved the ex-CT buildings while the church sat deteriorating for 25+ years, but that's not the point.

Evergreens just seem out of place in the FEB walkable/nautical/urban setting. Why not do what's done in a number of northern waterfront cities: portable palm trees and ferns... Move them outdoors in the spring and take them indoors in the fall. It may seem kooky to some, but ferns & palms seem more appropriate down there the evergreens imho. At the very least, I'd use palms/ferns on the apartment's western flank facing the water. Smaller evergreens could face inland... I guess.

That's the biggest difference. Jacobs Group bought the Cleveland Trust rotunda (and adjoining tower) in 1988, and the building stayed occupied until about 1995. And although it was vacant afterwards, Jacobs kept the heat on in winter, the A/C on in summer, made routine maintenance and patrolled it with security for a decade until the county bought it in 2005. Then county provided the same TLC to the rotunda for the next 7+ years until Geis bought it in early 2013. If you want to read why the Fifth Church of Christ Scientist is not likely to survive, read the history of neglect (including by its own neighborhood) I researched and wrote about in 2013 for Sun Newspapers: Fifth Church in Cleveland has long history of revamps that did not happen By Ken Prendergast, Sun News on May 03, 2013 at 11:50 AM, updated May 03, 2013 at 11:51 AM CLEVELAND A large redevelopment plan was submitted for the vacant Fifth Church of Christ Scientist, 11623 Lake Ave., on the border of Lakewood and Cleveland. The project’s principal investor already bought the church, built in 1927, and was ready to move forward. The $4 million investment would come from private financing that was already secured. Two houses on West 117th Street would be demolished for a two-level, 70-car parking deck connected by a walkway over Lake Avenue. The church itself would be renovated for offices of a specialty freight shipper called Ohio Northern Transit Co., as well as for an employee insurance and benefits agency. And it would house a small gallery for Tom Wilson, a Lakewood resident and cartoonist who created the famous Ziggy comic strip. But after getting no neighborhood support for his project, James C. White, then 46, of Lakewood, sold the church on Feb. 3, 1992 to Rini-Rego Supermarkets Inc. after owning it for just 11 months. MORE: http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2013/05/fifth_church_in_cleveland_has.html I was pretty clear in my post that the Heinen's supermarket was just an analogy of what creativity can reap for an old, non-standard type building ... I didn't suggest it was even a viable solution for the church... anyway... This article only reinforces my feelings about the church's upcoming date with the wrecking ball and brings several thoughts to mind about the : divisive, pointless bickering, poor planning, a powerful neighborhood association blocking all proposals (in one case, at least, they appeared legit), a crooked power-broker and, of course, that old Cleveland bugaboo ... parking! ... Most importantly, though, the church's future suffered from a total lack of leadership and the "old Cleveland" inertia that gripped and stalled development again and again ... fortunately, that Cleveland has been replaced by the "can do" mentality we have today... ... Although not a direct analogy, University Circle Uptown suffering-then-success is parallel. Uptown is where we had decades of inertia and nothing getting done: a standoff-ish neighborhood group that fought tooth and nail against any development (those Hessler Road neighbors); a totally directionless/dysfunctional UCI and a major prestigious university that was having financial trauma and its own leadership issues (President Hundert was ultimately "no-confidence-d" by the faculty (see "fired")). And then to add insult to injury, there was the uber-wealthy patron, the late Peter B. Lewis, who took the podium and publicly spanked all parties involved... And that pesky surface parking lot at Ford & E. 115 seemed it would sit there undeveloped forever... ... until the Campbell mayoralty was defeated, and in walked her ex-planning director, Chris Ronayne (the man who pulled the FEB parties, institution and financing to the table)... and we have Uptown, today, and all it's spin-off institutions, like the Marriott Courtyard, the expanded CIA, relocated UC-Little Italy Red Line Rapid station (itself some 50 years in the making) and, now, Intesa... Ronayne's can-do, 'let's cool down/put our heads together and work through this' mentality was responsible for all of it from where I sit... Leadership. If it had existed at the Edge, the lovely Fifth Church would likely have been saved... too bad.

^It's here and well entrenched; 50+ years in the making. The question is: what to do, now?

This article is pretty thin regarding solutions. I wish Grant had explored what infrastructure, in terms of agencies, planners and plans, that we have, or need to have, in place to move toward fixing this problem. In particular, this: "The researchers found that nearly all zero-vehicle households are in neighborhoods with transit service, but that the transit routes connect them to only 40 percent of jobs within 90 minutes." I've seen roughly these numbers thrown out before... Now, what are the practical steps to addressing this problem?

I had a friend in town a week & half ago for CIFF 2015. We rode over by this area, for me the first time in several years, and she abolutely couldn't believe they're tearing down such a architecturally beautiful building as the church, which is how I feel, too... I just can't believe a grand structure of that size and prominence can't be reused for anything. I've heard a number of ticky-tack proposal like the silly indoor climbing wall gym, but are developers seriously trying? I mean, if we can put a (seemingly very successful so far) Heinen's in the old Cleveland Trust rotunda, why not here? And that's just one idea... I think folks have rather cavalierly given up on this building but, trust me, folks will live to regret it. You just don't throw away such irreplaceable architecture as this. We as a society foolishly did it in the 50s, 60s and 70s, but we should be smarter today.

Would greater police presence after Cleveland St. Patrick's Day parade mean fewer beatings? By Brandon Blackwell, Northeast Ohio Media Group Email the author | Follow on Twitter on April 06, 2015 at 11:32 AM, updated April 06, 2015 at 11:43 AM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Despite years of unchecked beatings on and around Public Square following the city's St. Patrick's Day parades, a spokesman for Mayor Frank Jackson said police presence during the booze-fueled revelry is good enough. This year, mobs attacked at least six people -- mostly visitors to Cleveland -- in the hours after the parade, a time when hundreds of drunken revelers converge with throngs of teenagers pouring into the public transportation hub after the school day. The combination continues to catalyze violence, calling into question whether enough is being done to curb the brutality. "This is something that has been going on for years, so why we didn't secure that area immediately while we were planning, I don't understand," Councilman Zack Reed said. "It's remarkable to me that it happened on the scale that it happened this year. Where the hell were the police?" Not going back Randy Rose, a 24-year-old Huntsburg man who was attacked by a band of teenagers after this year's parade, had a similar question. Minutes before Rose was pummeled near a Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority platform on Euclid Avenue, a mob attacked someone else in the area. "There was a couple of cops that showed up in a van, but they left," he said. "They didn't seem to care there was an angry mob there." Surveillance video provided by the RTA shows the officers in the van stopped at the scene for less then two minutes. About 90 seconds after they left, the mob struck again. Rose was punched and knocked to the ground. Two of his friends were also attacked as dozens of people swarmed in and around the platform, delivering blows. It took police about another 90 seconds to respond to the melee, the video shows. "It could have been avoided if (the police) had been there," Rose said, adding that he pointed out two possible suspects to responding police, but the officers didn't bother to speak to them. "[Public Square] is ground zero on St. Patrick's Day for blacks to go beat up whites," Reed said. "I believe this is a hate crime because it is black folks purposefully going downtown to beat up white folks." "[Public Square] is ground zero on St. Patrick's Day for blacks to go beat up whites," Reed said. "I believe this is a hate crime because it is black folks purposefully going downtown to beat up white folks." http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/04/would_greater_police_presence.html#incart_river

Yep....that article on W 25th Transit Corridor comes to mind....the one stating that transit is being developed for poor single mom's. It's easy to see how a modern, frills attached movie complex would integrate with PS. It's a good fit. Yet I don't want to give up on Tower City just yet. Having the CIFF there every year has been by and large a really great experience. I don't think anyone believes downtown could support two complexes. No question... I just attended another excellent CIFF, their 39th, with over 100K attendees for the 1st time and, now, rated among the top 10 film festivals in the US. I really think CIFF saved the TC theaters, at least for now, because I know FCE had once, not too long ago, voiced interest in demolishing the theaters for expanded parking (. . . yeah I know, it's at the point you can't even get angry anymore). Hopefully the TC theaters will survive. I hope a new residential/retail complex of some sort is built in PHS ... just absent movie theaters.

Huh. I guess that would be great for Playhouse Square, but it would undoubtedly kill off Tower City Cinemas, which have a fantastic indoor transit connection and are probably the biggest driver of traffic to the mall. I agree. The residential component would, of course, be welcome as would downtown retail. But why another movie theater complex? I kinda get it from PHS' POV; they want to generate more foot traffic into the area during the long hours their multiple live theaters are dark, but at what cost to downtown generally? And as for the rail transit convenience of TC and its theaters, I've all but given up on this town and it's planners to think or act intelligently toward rail transit. Planners here are too quick to genuflect to the almighty automobile. To them, transit is for the poor and minorities; it's a stubborn and pernicious mentality that even infects the transit agency itself. Only a tiny few number of leaders and developers, like MRN, even have a faint clue about TOD. Even for all K&D's development downtown, they still market their properties as if they were suburban buildings that just happen to be downtown... There is no mention of rail transit anywhere in K&D literature; barely any mention of transit at all... (there may have been one HL reference I saw somewhere).

^^Gawd 'll get you for that!!

^Construction is moving rather rapidly (sorry) on this station. It should be impressive when finished. ... ... i hope UC-Little Italy will open on time this summer as well.

The old Standard Theater was demolished. See the article I posted above. It discuss what happened and even has a photo of the old PC O'Briend Building which was offices and had the Standard Theater, like the Keith Building although smaller. Our "good friend" Alvin Krenzler demolished it and the Hippodrome despite objections to both. EDIT -- here's a direct link to photos of the old PC O'Brien Building: http://www.loc.gov/pictures/search/?q=Photograph:%20oh1779&fi=number&op=PHRASE&va=exact&co%20=hh&st=gallery&sg%20=%20true Shame on the late Buddy Kenzler for demolishing these buildings -- at least the Standard Theater was replaced; as we know, the Hipp's old space is still surface parking on Euclid even though, I'll admit, it was probably more difficult to rehab the large, old Hipp rather than the smaller (though deep) Standard which appears to have had serious mixed-use possibilities even if the planned comedy club idea fell through. Too bad. That it was replaced by a never used (in 2 decades) structure, apparently built on spec, is bizarre... But I do welcome the 2nd Moxie; its rendering is quite sexy. I'd like to see more outdoor balcony seating in Cleveland restaurants. It's something that some other cities have more of... ... btw, here's the PD's 2010's obit on Kenzler who, obviously, was quite a colorful (and often controversial) character. It's not often you have a ex-City kid, retired federal judge, philanthropist RE developer and bow-tie wearing, octogenarian motorcycle club member all in one! http://www.cleveland.com/obituaries/index.ssf/2010/09/obituary_-_alvin_buddy_krenzle.html

I hear you; you make great points and, yes, it sucks that Cleveland still can't yet wean its TOD development from the drive-'n-park training wheels. But if a few hundred more parking spaces (along with the, more importantly added NY-lending partner) is the tipping point to making this super-important development materialize ... I'll hold my nose and accept it.

Michelle is awesome!

^The film festival was awesome. Great films as usual: esp. "Dreamcatcher", "The Tribe" -- both harsh, unflinching films: the former, a documentary style story about one ex-prostitute's quest to save her street sisters; the latter, a fictional piece focusing on a run-down, gang-run boarding school for the deaf in a grim Kiev, Ukraine slum area (and you thought Cleveland slums were bad!... also note: there was neither any dialogue nor subtitles -- an amazing flick)... CIFF has become so prominent, many Hollywood producers scout the fest... ... Also the added synergy at Tower City with the NCAA regionals, esp the fantastic Notre Dame vs. UK showdown, was fantastic for downtown. We heard a lot of out-of-towner's compliments of the City, its physical beauty, great restaurants and active nightlife.

^Moses gets around. This will be his 3rd move IIRC.

Interesting article. I guess I too am behind the times because I assumed that block was still gay-themed ... but as Seinfeld famously noted: "Not that there's anything wrong with that."

^Yes, I'm excited and, no, unlike like the bad old days when the City tore down whole blocks of buildings with plans to build that never materialized (Public Square, the hole), Cleveland's obviously on a "can do" roll... Still I'd like to see a little more than just a Stark sign and a desire to move forward before I go all in with the 515 residential tower ... hey wait a minute, this is the nuCLEus thread. :-o

If you'd have paid attention, I've asked this question repeatedly over time and have never received an answer. That trash dump at the location has been there for years.

No Response? ... I guess that is my answer.

^I surprisingly, and happily, saw RTA workers doing some cleanup in the open cut along the Blue/Green Line open cut in the middle of Shaker Blvd. Question: have they, or are they, the extreme dump of mattresses, tires, wood and other assorted junk in that cut just to the east of the MLK bridge? It's been horrible for years and now would be an opportune time to clean it out. Jerry? Jetdog?

"Its best to stop pretending that the people of Cleveland, the residents living along this route particularly, are anything but an afterthought caught up in this gargantuan boondoggle. " And this article was under the "News" section on Scene's website? I have mixed feelings on the OC, so I understand the sentiment, but this represents my problem with Scene. I appreciate that it exists, and it's good to have a news alternative in this town, but couldn't they try to be a bit more objective than this? Especially considering that the OC does arguably have some merits. That's actually an accurate quote: OC-area residents are an afterthought. As for attacking Scene, I wish there was at least a little consternation against the PD when, prior to getting the OC green-lighted, all they wrote were articles saying the OC's the magic wand that will save the poor, Forgotten Triangle and its residents -- with no objection. I'm glad to see at least a little balance now... even if it's coming after the fact.

That's an amazing 19th Century PD Sunday Supplement photo... As for the Philly parallel: same general idea, but different important in key aspects... Philly's is much bigger than Cleveland's would have been. Keep in mind, in 1895, the very large Soldier's & Sailor's Monument on the SE quadrant was already built (the year before, in 1894) so there would have been much less space for CH in Public Square. Philly's CH is touted as the largest municipal building in the world which I see no reason to doubt: it contains, the mayor's office, city council -- all the courts and temporary holding cells used to all be in this one building. Now about 1/3rd of the courts are still there with most now in the Criminal Justice Center tower, along with the city jail, catty corner from CH... And of course Philly's sits on a European-style traffic round about so trolleys never cut through as they would have in ours... Philly's does have 4 directional arches that lead to a central courtyard, but they pedestrian scale. Of course Philly's Center Square, which was set aside by Billy Penn for municipal purposes in the center of town, is the transit hub for Philly much like our Public Square is for Greater Cleveland: the 2 main subway lines cross partially underneath CH, the subway-surface trolleys' terminal circles beneath CH and Suburban Station, the busiest commuter rail hub, is a block away... Philly's City Hall, though much criticized by some locals (Philadelphians complain about everything) is a magnificent structure imho... unfortunately it has been poorly maintained and is even junky looking in many interior halls and corridors. They a large wire mesh fence which they close at night to keep people out of the courtyard... They recently have finally finished off a nice makeover of their western plaza with large, walk-through fountains, permanent vendors, a new entrance to the subway tunnels and even an ice skating rink in winter. For all its flaws (in Philly's upkeep, not it's initial execution), CH is a magnificent, very impressive edifice imho... As was noted above, Daniel Burnham's Group Plan for Cleveland removed our primary governmental facilities away from our central square (our CH, btw, while smaller and less comprehensive than Philly's, is very impressive in its own right, and it's interior is 10-times better maintained than Philly's) ... While the Group Plan is monumental, our governmental center seems a tad isolated from the main commercial area of downtown, unlike Philadelphia's.

Never paid attention to it...