CTownsFinest216

this is a serious issue IMO we all know the census is crap, but the figure matters for funding, perception, and crime rate. i cant find anything about it but i do know that cities over 500,000 get a significant amount more in federal funding. poor and minority communities are historically undercounted and cleveland is majority minority with a high poverty rate its not just cleveland that is being undercounted........cuyahoga county continues to lose population and many suburbs are undercounted with almost as high a percentage loss as the city of cleveland maybe we could get a petition started and bring it to city council urging them to fight the census estimates when will the census claim cleveland has dipped below 400k? 2010?

some of you are in denial.......i actually feel sorry for you some of you also think youre a lot smarter than you actually are thats what im thinkin........this building should be built on the lot directly west, make a street wall on superior. since stark owns or is in the process of owning all the lots west of W. 3rd and this is a jacobs project it has to go on the lot he owns. and its great that all of you love to point out how we have the tallest building in ohio, tallest between ___ and ____, terminal tower was once the tallest outside nyc yet as soon as someone comes along and points out how underwhelming this proposal is for the site you hate skyscrapers. which is it? make up your mind i bet you now when stark gets his scaled back project off the ground with avenue district or shorter heights people will say "oh im so glad that none of those tall 15-20 story buildings with office, retail, and residential werent built like he originally planned" when you were fine with the renderings before. its the same old thing. word? yea, im sure regular ole me could do all that :roll: then tell jacobs to go build his 21-story bland box on one of the many other fine surface lots in the CBD and leave the public square lot be until he's ready to build something serious. by that time a decent height proposal on public square wouldnt be "surrounded by surface lots and abandoned buildings" assumin stark actually builds in the next decade. that or tell stark he can have the tenants jacobs will get for this project to build the building on w. 3rd and superior. make sense to you yet? i do know they dont have the balls to build big. you dont have george w. bush's net worth so you cant criticize anything he does Yes Yes obviously yes considering: 1- it would at least have to have more office space being used 2- it could be mixed use if taller, so that would mean more hotel jobs/staff for residences/retail jobs will a 21-story building on public square? will FEB? will the WHD? obviously not. whats your point? oh jipee jeepers! i dont think i can take it! bellevue washington has a 42-story hotel/condo tower going up. there's also a 33-story tower that is all residential. bet you'll tell me bellevue has more hotel space/residential demand than cleveland does. they also have a hell of a lot more height going up in addition to that. shame the old buildings that occupied the lot were torn down in anticipation for a building that never got built. shouldnt they wait until the building is actually going to be built before demolishing old buildings? if they were still there maybe all the other existing parking lots could be built on while jacobs waits until he can actually build something bigger am i on urbanohio.com ? i think we should rename this site ohioapologists.com keep em comin folks

i wonder if people in chicago or new york complain when 700 footers go up about how street life will be ruined matter fact, why dont we just demolish the terminal tower, BP, and key while we're at it. tall buildings are horrible, they ruin cities and do nothing for street life. i mean whens the last time you saw people out on the streets in manhattan or the loop? i wish all the fortune 500 companies downtown located in skyscrapers would put themselves in 10 different buildings instead. why is jacobs even trying to build such a tall behemoth on public square anyways? i think it would be better suited with a hut and a tiki bar.....or maybe they could put a papa johns on the lot and offer 23 cent pizzas. that would create TONS of street life! after all, we're looking at 1 single lot on public square as an entire section of prague! skyscrapers are whats built today. if you detest them so much, fire up the old chuck wagon and go live in podunkville, usa. nevermind the fact that this building is only 21-stories, it is a poor uninspired design that looks like it could be built anywhere. theres no unique to cleveland design of the building. what kind of a dolt am i though, i dont know anything about companies or the economy. i must want a 3579045271-story building and dubai-like construction since im unhappy with a developer holding onto a parking lot for big plans only to announce 55 public square part deux 20 yrs later. hes only crippled the city with that lot for 2 decades, but i should be happy with anything being built! how DARE i demand better and have a big vision for my hometown when its not my money. i shouldnt be telling any developer how to spend his money. what was jacobs doing building key in the first place when they told him not to. you see what good that turned out to be. ...guess he's finally learned from that tragic mistake ! i hope this building in its current iteration is never built. keep it a parking lot.

this thread is depressing i get really frustrated at the destruction of this city. theres a lot of pointless demolitions going on in this city.....most structures arent beyond saving and are replaced by nothing. if theyre replaced, its by some crap thats less urban or a surface lot. those apartments by east blvd being knocked down.....just ridiculous. its always the most urban and best residential architecture that gets knocked down too. "oh its just 1 building its not the end of the world"........1 here 1 there and soon you have nothing left. cleveland doesnt exactly have a plethora of dense old building stock left now so there shouldnt be ANY more of these buildings being knocked down now. not to mention the random stuff that gets destroyed in house fires. the city should be urbanizing itself, not de-urbanizing. youve got suburban crap being built a couple miles outside of downtown while the best architecture gets destroyed and lost forever. go look at google street view.....THERE AREN EVEN SIDEWALKS IN SOME OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS. the only residential stuff i actually like (outside of downtown) that has been built recently is the stuff in tremont, if youre going to build a new development of single family homes thats how you should do it. problem is.....its gentrified with the homes costing $300k-400k im sick of it. why do we let this happen to our city? i cant even put my thoughts together right now about this because it just makes me so mad progress my ass

fair enough mytwosense, but i dont see how any of those locations are more logical than jacobs lot. aesthetically speaking a tallest there makes the most sense filling a gap between the big 3 and doesnt make it seem as barren. business wise it makes sense being in the center of the CBD on public square. easy access to tower city, other businesses and venues, convention center/med mart, and public square is the transportation hub of cleveland. i agree that those areas are ripe for development......which is why i think a 20-story building should go in those gaps, not public square. you guys are underestimating this lot/project and think that anything can be plunked down as a quick fix thank you badge.......someone who understands my thinking. though i was all alone there...

what the hell does downtown need greenspace for? all this "green space" "pocket park" "plaza" stuff is stupid. theres enough of that already. what downtown needs is buildings at street level on these gaping parking lots. want to build a 20-story tower? build it on the lot directly across from the public square lot in starks plan or somewhere else in the city's numerous parking lots downtown that need to disappear the comments by people are an overall "lets settle for anything that gets built because hey! at least something is being built in cleveland finally" attitude im amazed that jacobs would sit on this lot wanting to build an iconic scraper taller than key and announces this uninspired 20-story tower now i do too, nice blanket statement. other cities overbuilt and have higher vacancies than cleveland does or have officials/developers without a suburban mentality and making it harder for businesses to be downtown companies in cleveland....ones located downtown .....arent expanding? please. there arent LARGE companies located in the burbs that the city shouldnt be luring downtown with proposals? like i pointed out before, office vacancy rates are the lowest theyve been in years. thats not a sign of expansion? Squires, Sanders, and Dempsy, Baker & Hostetler, Huntington Bank are just a couple looking for new class A space. i dont know the exact #s of space they take up so i would have to look them up and put the figures together office + ground floor retail + hotel for convention center + condos = easily able to build a new tallest older buildings could easily be converted to residential for the growing downtown population and office space for other smaller up and coming (tech) companies that are looking to be downtown playhouse square? youre seriously complaining about "street life" on one lot on public square where a skyscraper could be built yet youd rather see a 60-story building in playhouse square? talk about ass backwards. as if there arent enough gaps in the skyline how would a 1000-footer over there look compared to filling a gap where the big 3 are? theres active streetlife downtown on superior and euclid.....oh wait......

how do you know? there are still several companies lookin for office space, theres the new convention center/medical mart being built, opportunity for new hotel space, mixed retail, new residential, etc. jacobs could easily fill a building like he had been planning if he had the vision and finances. people said the same exact thing when key tower went up yet our class A vacancy rate is LOWER than what it was after key was built.....15 years later. our CBD is expanding. our downtown population is rising. STOP TALKING ABOUT "STREET LIFE"! how the hell does a 20-story building create more street life than a 60-story one? this is the CBD, where believe it or not. SKYSCRAPERS EXIST. want to talk about street life and creating life downtown? go to the pesht thread, FEB thread, or midtown/CSU college town. THOSE ARE WHERE DENSE STREETSCAPES THAT INTERACT WITH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD NEED TO BE BUILT. this building is ONE BUILDING ON ONE SINGLE PLOT OF LAND. its not some huge mixed-use neighborhood being created like starks warehouse district plan. i seriously dont understand what part of this you dont understand. im also complainin about your grammar. where would a better location be for a skyscraper taller than key be ? serious question they dont, so why is 2 cents sayin this?

21 stories?!?!? WTF!!!! is this a joke or somethin? call me shocked from everything i heard and expected......wow. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT LOCATION FOR A TOWER IN DOWNTOWN CLEVELAND AND WOULD BE PERFECT I MEAN PERFECT FOR A NEW SIGNATURE TALLEST. where else would you build a new tallest? this is RIGHT ON PUBLIC SQUARE proves that cleveland cant think BIG and wants to trap itself in this mentality ridiculous jacobs has been plannin this sh!t forever and been sittin on the lot for YEARS and the best he can do is a rinky dinky little tower? if this gets built im gonna be pissed. he had a plan (multiple...im not talkin about the ameritrust tower) for somethin 1300 ft and now this? id rather this be a parking lot than a 21 story building on that site

wowwww they are closing it foreal? damn this is sad.......i actually still went there occasionally mainly cuz it still had good shoe stores. even today it still has the best shoe stores out of any mall around. anyone know if the finishline there is still open? didnt seem to be closing anytime soon a month ago. i remember even in the 90s it still got traffic and most of the stores were open. arcade was still open, food court was full, all the department stores were still there. when macy's closed i think that was the final nail in the coffin. damn even severance was still a mall with a bunch of stores then too. i remember dunham sporting goods old navy closed at richmond? thats surprsing to me considerin richmond seemed to be in good health (pretty much full with stores) and the makeover they gave it seemed to be pretty successful as for the "crime" at randall..........thats just racist people that dont like being outnumbered by black folk when they do their shopping. ive never felt "unsafe" in randall mall lol i blame the owner, i was readin about who owned it but i forget what the name was .....they are also responsible for the doom of some other dead malls across the country.

i give more chance of jacobs building a new tallest on public square by 2010 than those parking lots to the west being filled 10 yrs from now

i'll believe it when i see it

interesting hope theres big news on friday

Dear RTA, please get some better pass machines at tower city all of the pass machines today were out of service signed, pissed off rider who has to make bus transfers

euclid avenue wouldnt need to be filled in if the city didnt tear it all down

downtown population was 10k a few yrs ago........more like 12k-15k now

what about centene ? they planned to build 2 new office buildings in downtown st louis but have axed it and may move outside the region. cleveland already has a strong health care industry so i wonder if any developers have talked to them about moving their HQ here.

i like it.......add a few more stories and build it!

i dont see whats wrong with the current lee rd station cant say im a fan of the new w. 117th station, it interacts less with the street than the old one

*sigh* why should we not be up in arms about this being done right? we are already sufferin with the mistakes this city has made in the past and not only us but future generations will have to suffer with this one. why should 1 company put this city's development in a strangle hold? eaton moving to independence or north carolina isnt gonna keep a family in kinsman out of poverty we should just accept anything because "hey! its development in cleveland!" i give up

this sucks im really losin any faith that cleveland will get anything right nowadays. it amazes me that they cant find architects in this city or urban planners that can build urban properly. thinkin about this city's history how did it end up where its so hard to build urban? seems like the powers that be want cleveland to be one giant suburb if eaton wants to build some corporate campus crap they can leave ohio all together with. what ever happened to developing the lakefront with residential? are eaton's employees really that depressed with working in a skyscraper on superior ave?

i live in the buckeye neighborhood and have never gotten anything from the census soon the census will estimate toledo has more people than cleveland has cleveland tried to fight the census? i know they've done a drill down but why has the city (council) not gone to the census? where can we write to and encourage this? detroit fought the census and won here's an article i found about a social compact drill down : http://www.csrwire.com/News/3145.html

norfolk's light rail.... the tide is going to be 7.4 miles at a cost of $232 million and they received $128 million from the FTA this compared to the euclid corridor project at 6.4 miles and $168 million, $82.2 million from FTA i am puzzled that norfolk can build a new light rail for that cost and how they can get 128 million in federal funding while cleveland gets 82. RTA couldve easily built a starting light rail line down euclid for the cost of this BRT from downtown to midtown.

whats the deal with the one cleveland center site? are there any renderings of this proposed building? i never heard anything about that but i hope it happens

i was bein facetious........see the comments on cleveland.com the news about tucker ellis is good, i just hope that wolstein gets this right. this project will be for the next 50+ yrs so we're stuck with crap we're stuck with it until we're dead. i just dont have much faith in cleveland to get anything right now. i think stark's project would benefit downtown more than the FEB