CTownsFinest216

by the time renderings are out it will be too late and the most ridiculous part of it is probably them asking for the waterfront line (or "a bunch of crappy rails") to be moved. too bad the port/city council/city planning are spineless. money talks i guess..... re: the adobe building in seattle........that isnt their HQ and the building is not in the CBD, its in a regular neighborhood. adobe's HQ is in san jose and looks like this walmart and M$ HQ are not located in the CBD of a major city. why should we expect that in downtown cleveland? yep lets face it......we all know what they mean by "campus styel" and it sure aint a building built in an urban context up to the street the lakefront is a valuable asset to this whole region and if 1 corporation wants to screw it up our kids and future generations will have to live with the consequences

who the f-ck cares if downtown becomes a suburban office park, cleveland is already trying to turn itself into one big suburb and now this crap comes along. id rather eaton move to solon or get the hell out of town altogether if they want to do this even the companies located downtown have a suburban mentality ridiculous look at these 2 morons chiming in on cleveland.com already.... clueless screw it. key should tear down key tower and make a 5-story building spreading over 2 acres downtown tear down terminal tower, its too old and too tall

LOL

you're right......i was gonna say wolstein prolly offered them a bigger cut i agree completely with everything oengus said and this pretty much sums up everything stark talks a big game for someone who's only done cracker park. he first says "im tired of the suburbs" then starts talkin about a "downtown" for solon. seems like if he cant get his chunk of the pie (i.e. all of the big players lookin for new office space) then he wont do it. its all or nothing. i like his big vision and we need more people to think that way in this town but how many projects have we seen proposed and never happened here? i'll believe it when there are cranes in the air. stark acquiring those lots already cancelled a couple smaller projects that were going to go up. those parking lots will still be there in 10 yrs i bet in which time cleveland will just be one big suburb with a couple nice skyscrapers downtown you mean the outer suburbs will

i dont get why ernst & young or whoever would want to go in the FEB as opposed to stark's plan. FEB is off the beaten path and not really all that connected with the rest of the CBD. not only that, if they are going with a "campus" it will further de-sensitize downtown and the skyline impact will be minimal since its at a lower elevation/buildings will be shorter but bigger. if you were a company wouldnt you want to be right next to all the action in the best location possible location? the warehouse parking lots are right by public square in one of the best possible locations downtown.

pope you completely missed what i was sayin. what i meant was that the price was still 1.75 to enter at tower city, so if you are buying a 5-ride card youre not going to pay less since 8.75/5 is 1.75 per ride, same as you'd pay regularly. before you could save money by buying the passes, either 5-ride or all day (7.50 and i forget what it was before that, $3). i know you obviously have the transfer priviledges with a pass but if im correct you can still ask for a transfer at TC (not sure how long those last) lets say i use the rapid/bus everyday except for the weekend. thats 5 days, so if i purchase a week pass now for 17.50 its 3.50 per day. thats no discount over buying a 5-ride since you would use 2 trips at 1.75 per trip for 3.50 a day. the all day pass is no longer an option since its more expensive at 4.00. if you use a week pass everyday it gives you a discount as youre payin 2.50 a day. another example, say i need to run some errands or go to the westside. since i take the rapid home i only have 1 hr 15 minutes to do so and it becomes a squeeze even if im going to be somewhere for a half hour especially considerin how slow some of the busses run it would be easier if the transfer on the 5-ride was 2.5 hrs for both bus AND rapid, which since RTA consolidated rapid/bus fare into the same price would only be fair i wasnt referring to a .25 increase on 1 fare but 50 cents or $1 more per day makes a difference and adds up i use RTA 15-20 days a month.....id say thats pretty frequent. guess in your mind i gotta use it 365 days a yr to be frequent though. i dont own a car but i dont need to take the bus or rapid everyday i have no problem with RTA's fare increase as long as they dont cut service and work on improving current service (more frequent service, expanded rail in the future)

JMasek- First off, how does one go about actually gettin a refund from RTA when the pass machines screw up? The machine at Tower City ate my money awhile back and I was just told to call the number. However when I called the number on the pamphlet and left all the information stated (name, number, time & date, location, descrption of problem, machine number) I was never called back and there was no message left on the answering machine. Second, RTA started charging for the new fares about a week before the actual date. I realize that you have to change the machines and get the new ticket things installed but I highly doubt this takes several days to install. People in this city have a hard time gettin by as it is .....at least make the fare increase on the actual date its going to happen. I think RTA should bring in frequent rider passes/discounts. For someone like me who doesnt use it everyday of the month or week its not much savings to buy a 5-rde or all day especially now that its 1.75 each. So if you catch the rapid spend a couple hrs downtown youre not going to save money with an all day pass or 5-ride since the transfer is only 1 hr 15 min for rapid I believe. Have they considered bringin back the 10-ride passes? RTA needs to step up bus service too. On Wednesday I waited about 20 minutes on Public Square to catch the 26 down Detroit while several other routes had 2 buses come durin that time and a "not in service" bus pass. When the 26 finally arrived, it became so packed that there were people crowding the entire aisle, you could barely even get off the bus. The driver had to turn away people because there was no more room. This is inexcusable on a weekday in the middle of the city. Moreover coming back down Detroit to downtown I had to wait again 15-20 minutes while 2 went the other way. this happened between 3:30 and 5:00 PM often times the 26 will become crowded and very slow with 2 busses comin at once and 2 busses comin the other way in the span that 1 comes yours run more busses oh yea i forgot to mention..........running trains on new years anyone? i remember a year back my brother was here with a friend and they couldnt even catch the rapid back on new years eve

yea i did.....nothin there really pluggedincleveland doesnt have much either....theres 1 apt but too far away from things and doesnt include utilities true.....most of the stuff the sign is on the place with the #. i dont wanna be wanderin around every neighborhood though

does anyone know of good websites besides cleveland.com, rent.com, clevelandrent.com, clevelandrental.com ??? lookin for brick plexes or rowhouses

Point? Guess there's no new condos going up in downtown Cleveland either. :roll: there is stonebridge/pinnacle and the avenue district...so no stonebridge and pinnacle are not in downtown cleveland....they are geographically separated from downtown cleveland the avenue district there are a few units in a 10-story building and then theres the tiny ass 2 story townhomes so in conclusion there arent any high-rise residential towers being built in downtown cleveland the building in pittsburgh is actually a high-rise tower in downtown

i know that......i meant those separately not implyin the plexes were in that area. EC has quite a few of them but thats kinda far from DT i'll investigate prospect, maybe head down there this week and see whats good and who the hell cares about the bus rapid transit.....a bus is a bus a bus is a bus is a bus. if its not a train its not a train. they should call euclid the opportunity corridor squandered

yea......if its like a dorm i dont think i wanna live there. the ymca would be cool if i could actually afford a membership......theres a few apartments DT that have fitness centers like the chesterfield. i dont need a huge space but if i can get somethin better for the same price why not what i was lookin for was one of those side by side brick apartment duplexes....the ones with the front porches and right up to the street maybe e. 30s 40s st clair/superior/payne ......i wouldnt be near the rapid though i wish RTA would extend the rapid lines in the city to cover more neighborhoods

thats where i live thanks for the info so far im lookin at heritage suites right now.........is it just for CSU students? seems like a good deal $425/month with free utilities

so my lease is bout to be up and i just wanted to see if i could get some info from anyone who lives in downtown cleveland what would i be lookin at minimum for a studio apartment ? the places i know of are reserve square, bridgeview, huron square, statler arms (seems nice), bridgeview, the chesterfield, bingham......the rest slip my mind right now. seems like minimum would be $700 for a small studio plus you have to deal with leases and deposits. i need somethin flexible id rather be in a hood neighborhood so i dont think im gonna move downtown but wanted to weigh options. eventually id live to live downtown. might be movin out of cleveland altogether with though with wherever i live it has to be near an RTA rapid stop, a grocery store, places to eat, CVS/walgreens, other daily conveniences i might be buyin a crib in EC, hough, or glenville ...or rent in those areas

so this is what a city looks like when it hasnt destroyed half of its dense older building stock huh note the new condo tower under construction downtown

what the hell do foreclosures have to do with an office and hotel tower ahh.....a gap in the skyline filled .....sorta i give a skyscraper rising on public square more chance than pesht now. stark seems adamant about building a cracker park in solon now...all after sayin "im tired of the suburbs"

bring it on i love all the naysayers here people actin like this cant be built cuz its cleveland. i bet they said the same thing about key tower and it has what % vacancy rate now?? the class A vacancy rate in downtown was higher than it is now when key tower was built. with companies lookin for new/bigger space, residential, and a hotel a 70-story building could easily be filled. it just takes balls from a developer to build it. and despite what some of yall say. a skyline does matter and is a sense of civic pride. its actually not the UO geeks that talk about skylines....ive come across lots of people who say "blah blah blah skyline is the best" etc. nobody on here is going to argue that a skyline is the end all of how great a city is but it matters. the general public would probably be more excited over a 70-story tower than a bunch of densely built 10-20 story towers. this is one building. one location. thats it. so why do people get strung on the concept how a tall building somehow defeats urbanity, street life, and mixed use when one lot isnt going to define all of that.

why? that doesnt make sense. jacobs is an entirely different thing from pesht, it is one building on a single lot. a 70-story skyscraper is not going to absorb every single business lease, all the retail, and all the residential. especially since that proposal by jacobs includes a hotel for the convention center. if stark thinks this way hes not thinkin right do i have to accumulate warren buffet fortune in order to get rid of those damn parkin lots myself?

i remember stark sayin that he wanted to complete phase 1 by 2009. the fact that we've only seen preliminary renderings released suggests that date is impossible. he still has to send his proposal to the city for approval which will take more than 6 months and he wont release anything until Q1 08. then there has to be finalized designs and the like so we will be lucky if construction STARTS by 2009. i'm very nervous and skeptical still about pesht. we havent seen anything and its takin an awful long time for something to happen. this is why i dont get excited until i see cranes in the air. we've heard it before. *ahem* thats what you think no.....think about a few things goin down in tha land shortly

does anyone have any old photos of cleveland? preferably aerials and eastside neighborhood shots here's an aerial i found of downtown...not sure of the date

f$&kin stupid pass machine ate my money today now i have to call them up and it looks like their customer service # is closed now and durin the weekend. they couldve just given me a pass like one RTA person did the last time this happened to me...im not tryin to scam you. get some better damn machines its a wonder i got home since i had no money left for a fare and 1 ride on my old pass left. completely messed up my errands arrrrrrrghhhhhh

no they shouldnt

as a person who relies solely on public transportation to get around i am concerned with RTA's lack of commitment to expand rail lines. only a small portion of cleveland is covered by rail and the lines only go to a few select places. a person like me is limited in where they can live inside the city of cleveland while being within walking distance to a rapid transit stop. you can see from figures that rapid ridership is up and i believe it would exceed ridership projections if the system expanded. it did in cities like portland, sacramento, san jose, salt lake city...all of which have a lower population density than cleveland. new rapid lines would spur more density and TOD. you can say we just built a day care center next to so and so station or whatever but at the end of the day are you really building TOD? are you increasing street life, making the area more transit/pedestrian friendly, creating more mixed use, and contributing to making a more urban environment? i dont think you are when you use the examples that you have given. i am very disappointed in the decision to build the euclid corridor project as a busway. this is an opportunity squandered on one of the most important economic corridors in cleveland. has RTA ever discussed bringin old street car routes that existed before? this would be a cost alternative to building full fledged rapid lines and would improve the whole system ten fold in the process. the street cars we see today being used in toronto were originally built for cleveland. we sold them in 1952. well said and i completely agree

thats exactly how i feel its a moot point though since we are talking about 1 lot at public square that would be surrounded by buildings. the worst swath of parking lots and ones that directly affect the jacobs proposal are the ones in the warehouse district. id love to see every single surface lot downtown disappear but thats not going to happen. bottom line why would anyone want something shorter on THAT LOT? i would trade key tower for denser neighborhoods and 5+ 500 footers downtown but if jacobs wants to come along and build a 60-story building im not going to stop him i say bring it on. we need more height and it will fill the major gap between the big 3 plus add density at street level. now lets get some renderings and details! when did i ever say this? i didnt. read my posts again.

i never said it did. a large chunk of the near eastside sure as hell wasnt an urban prarie though with parking lots and 1 or 2 houses on a whole street. i just picked that pic of philly to illustrate how real cities are built up densely around downtown. i couldve shown an image of cincinnati too. speaking of which, CSU is probably cleveland's biggest hidden urban gem. that whole area could turn into something like clifton in cincinnati. how is jacobs selfish because he proposed a tall building for public square? do you think the the warehouse district isnt getting built or something? because you keep talking about how we need mixed use and how a 60-footer would be surrounded by parking lots. this is 1 single lot in the middle of public square, how much ground floor retail are you expecting out of 1 building? the skyscraper could be an office/retail/hotel/residential mixed use project anyways. we're talking about 1 lot in the center of the skyline here. we arent talkin about puttin 60 story buildings in every vacant lot. how is this going to kill pedestrianism or mixed-use downtown? there are also mixed-use possibilities that already exist along our main avenues downtown. when is 515 euclid going to have storefronts? i dont even know what to say anymore.... you seem to be so against a skyscraper and i have no clue why it turned out OK for them didnt it if you want to be technical, theres no economic justification for building half the projects in cleveland right now. we dont NEED to build anything right now in cleveland since its losing population and the metro is stagnant. a bunch of mixed used buildings all over downtown like you want isnt economically justifiable since no one shops downtown and not enough people live downtown. which is why we need to build high-rise residential and have things like a target, grocery store, department store, other retail isnt that whats happening right now? aint that the whole point of stark? avenue district?