ClevelandOhio

The ridership I gave was for the red line and green/blue, so all 37 miles. Also Denver's 47 miles would actually be less because that includes a line that just opened this year, not in 2012 numbers. Personally I would prefer Cleveland abandon the majority of its rail for new rail lines with better placement(I'm looking at you Red Line!). I would refuse to remove the current rail though until the new ones are built.

^ It ironic that Cleveland State has anything to do with historic preservation when you look at their actions up to today.

How is Streetcar even a possibility when we couldn't even get one down Euclid instead of BRT?

@SixthCity, I think, at least for the CSU one, that student housing can demand higher prices as they stick more people into one unit. A four bedroom apartment is common around campuses and rent for a lot, but those same units would make no sense for the general public. Its the same reason you see apartments like this around other campuses, like Kent State. Edit: posted this without refreshing the page. Missed KJP's post.

I think you’re way off. Downtown Denver and some close in areas (E. Colfax, Santa Fe) have density, but the bulk of Denver is single family homes (including many ranch-style homes and shotguns) on roomy lots. Buckeye-Shaker, Clark-Fulton, Little Italy-UC, Edgewater/Cudell and Detroit-Shoreway, among a few Cleveland neighborhoods, trump all but those few Denver neighborhoods. Im not guessing though, Im looking at statistics on a census tract level. They blow us away. Alot of there near south side neighborhoods are at over 15,000 people per square mile, with a couple over 20,000 people per square mile. Cleveland's highest around around Shaker Square at 13,000 per square mile. And Cleveland is mostly full of single family houses. Even in our most popular "urban" neighborhoods such as Tremont, Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, etc. Oppressively dull, couldn't agree more. I would think that same camera angle on the red line would look much worse. Denver has to be doing something right. Their light rail ridership last year was 20,639,000. Cleveland's was 9095.7

For someone who hasn't kept up with the Cincinnati Streetcar project, and doesn't have time to read 626 pages!, can someone give me a brief summary of the project from the start to now? Thanks!

Although the city as a whole might be less dense due to its topography, at a neighborhood level, Denver has neighborhoods with density way higher than anything in Cleveland

^ RTA has the sixth largest law enforcement organization in Ohio with over 100 officers, yet they have almost no visible police presence outside of Tower City. I would like to see at least 10 of those officers patrolling the rapid stations, using the train to get from station to station. When I do see officers, they always seem to be in groups of at least 2. Maybe breaking them up and letting them patrol alone would be more effective.

^ In person the skywalk is actually not that bad. Its low making it not really ruin any views. Going west on Prospect its hard to even notice.

2013 is coming to an end. When will we see these changes!! I didn't want this to get lost. Also it is now December 2nd and the Little Italy station still hasn't seen any actual work begin. Whats the holdup?

Im guessing they are removing the seats that could not be sold because of a design flaw which blocked the view of the field. Anyone know how many seats that accounts for?

Last week there were officers at the top of the stairs from the platform at Puritas checking passes. I do agree that I have not encountered them often, but we likely represent a small sample of the overall operation. It also could be that those traveling during rush hour are not the most likely to be in violation. I often ride the Healthline and Red Line at all hours so I wouldn't think rush hour would play a major factor. Although I still haven't seen them on the Healthline(besides once the first year), I did see them get on the Red Line today. They just stood up front though and did not check anyone for passes.

Tower City seems to get worse every year during winterfest. Less and less decorations. They should keep the observation deck open later too during the event to see the lights on.

Either way, its has no connection to the Healthline development. Its a joke that they include it.

I was just repeating that from what I've read on here. Not really sure any of that works.

RTA needs to implement or improve their customer service training. The employees at Tower City are never that friendly. Their drivers aren't that great either. They do have a great driver on the Red Line during the evening though. Never got his name or id but sounds like an older guy who is great on the PA system.

Sorry if I worded my lead in to the quote wrong but it was purely about the part about the fastest response times. You are looking way to far into it. I originally posted it without the rest of the quote but didn't want to post that as 100% fact so I decided to give the entire portion of the quote. If true, which I believe her that it is, what is your response to that, since the whole time you and others have said East Cleveland would benefit since their safety services are terrible?

You don't care about your opinion, but you used the part of her opinion that you agreed with to try to validate your own point. :roll: I was using the fact that she stated... "East Cleveland firefighters, police and medical emergency responders have some of the fastest respond times in the region" :roll: I was giving her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't just make that up.

I dont care about her opinion, thats not what I was trying to show. I was showing that East Cleveland might be better off with its current services then what Cleveland could provide(opposite of what you and others have been saying about 4 patrol cars). If anything, Cleveland wont provide some major improvement in police, fire, etc, if her statement that East Cleveland has some of the best response times is true. I don't see how my argument loses any credibility from that. Even people on here have complained about the Cleveland Police Department. I dont see how Cleveland benefits by annexing a very poor, troubled area. That argument is about getting back over 400,000 which is pointless since we will no longer be there by next census, even sooner if you count estimates. Its also a very lame attempt at population growth. And I also dont think East Cleveland will benefit from joining Cleveland as much as other people like to believe.

I think we have different definitions of "up the hill" To me, it does not mean everything south of Euclid. The geographical boundary (the large incline) occurs at most points of the city south of Terrace (not including the condo buildings and towers which line the south side of Terrace, such as Terrace Tower or whatever it is called now). The exception to this rule would be the area of the City west of Superior and south of Euclid. I would venture to guess that the portion north of Terrace is more stable than the area to the south. The area around Nela Park is probably on par with the rest of the City income wise, but it greatly benefits from the CH police satellite stations on Noble, especially the one right on the border. The areas which border CH also benefit from the mutual aid contract, which I believe extends the CH patrol to include the hill. The nicest parts of EC is Forest Hills of course and the area near Caledonia park along N. Taylor This is the only area I used. Would this area be correct?

So now the Healthline is "responsible for $6 billion in development." Im hearing this more and more, including by Joe Calabrese and several city politicians. So I took a look at some of the numbers that the cite as development. Cleveland Museum of Art - $350,000,000 (how can they even act like the Healthline had any impact on this?) Cleveland Clinic various projects - $793,000,000 Stokes VA Medical Center - $539,000,000 University Hospitals Case Medical Center - $410,000,000 CSU student center - $55,000,000 CSU garage - $14,000,000 (REALLY?!!!) CSU law school renovation - $9,000,000 CSU main classroom building - $27,000,000 CSU Euclid Commons - $60,000,000 CSU College of Education building - $36,000,000 CSU + Cleveland Clinic + VA + Museum of Art + UH = $2,293,000,000 (These numbers only include older projects so new projects numbers aren't included, although they are included in the new $6 billion number) East 4th Street - $115,000,000 Terminal Tower Renovation - $40,000,000 Hanna Theatre - 19,200,000 Allen Theatre/Cleveland Playhouse/CSU - $30,000,000 Stephanie Tubbs Jones Transit Center - $6,400,000 Mayfield Road Street Improvements - $10,000,000 (hasn't happened yet) East 120th street rapid station relocation - $10,000,000 This is just a few.

So I looked and only 20% of that area is under 35 years old. 56% of the population is over 60. The most broad category of 35-59 is 24% of the population. Based on the other numbers, I would guess that most of that is late 40's and 50's

@inlovewithCLE, Id have to hear more from Mov2Ohio. And still, I believe people are drastically overestimating the development potential of East Cleveland. I also believe that people are giving Cleveland far too much credit, as I disagree that Cleveland taking over East Cleveland makes it better, as statistically, its already better than a lot of Cleveland's neighborhoods. We constantly talk about how Cleveland police are spread too thin, why make things even worse? Here are the views of an East Cleveland resident who disagrees that services would improve. "Morris indicated that a merger would enable East Cleveland to benefit from gaining Cleveland's first responders. Well, no disrespect to Cleveland's bravest, but East Cleveland firefighters, police and medical emergency responders have some of the fastest respond times in the region. And while compassion is not as measurable as response time, our first responders lead the pack for that quality as well." http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2013/11/east_cleveland_more_than_warm.html Edit: Here is another comment from different story which I doubt is made up. "About 10 years ago, while working in a large building that was 1/2 in CLE and1/2 in EC, we called 911 for a fire. While CLE called us back to try to determine which section of the building was on fire so they could determine their responsibility here, EC FD just showed up! While we were still on the phone with CLE Emergency Services trying to describe the exact location of the room with the fire! AFTER the emergency had been contained, THEN EC FD started measuring and what not to determine location, but not until after we were all safe and the building was made safe and secure. I will never forget that. ~~ My daughter is a visiting nurse working night shift. Those nurses will tell you in a heartbeat that EC Police and ER services far outshine CLE. When my daughter is dispatched to a home visit in EC in the middle of the night, she phones EC Police via non emergency number and is usually met and escorted. NEVER happens in CLE, they simply dont have the man power."

So basically Cleveland is helping pay to reduce stadium capacity, losing the city money, while increasing stadium advertisements making the Browns more money? All in the name of "fan experience"? The NFL has screwed over cities and nobody seems to care. I think investing $2 million a year for 15 years in new christmas lights would have had a better ROI for the city.

@inlovewithCLE, Drive through Hough and Fairfax and tell me they have less land to develop than the portion of East Cleveland near University Circle. All i'm arguing is that there is plenty of land available in the city of Cleveland near University Circle that is much more poised for development then the land in University Circle. Its mostly vacant, requiring less demolitions, and far more connected to UC and its major institutions. Chris Ronayne has never stated nobody wants to develop there, he was just making comments about East Cleveland probably because of Circle East. Additionally its part of his job to say those types of things, as I highly doubt he gets calls daily about East Cleveland. We have the Downtown Cleveland alliance constantly telling us the population downtown is near 15,000 which a complete lie. We have RTA telling us over and over how the Healthine has caused $5 billion in development along Euclid, another lie. Im not saying Ronayne is lying, I just think he is painting a prettier picture. And if you see how bad portions of our city are, I doubt Cleveland can magically make East Cleveland a better place. We cant even take care of our own neighborhoods. I think taking East Cleveland will just hurt Cleveland further. That has been my point from the beginning.