ClevelandOhio

Your opinion doesn't jibe with reality, according to the things that have come out of Chris Ronayne's own mouth. I've heard him say it and another person on this forum said that they've heard him say it as well. According to Chris (and I would think that he would know), developers want to extend into East Cleveland. Not Fairfax, not LI, East Cleveland. Chris Ronayne himself said that and I would trust his opinion more than the speculation of others on what they think the developers would rather do. Going into EC as opposed to those other neighborhoods make sense. It's a developer's haven. The city is built for 40,000 people and has less than 18,000 in it. You could essentially do whatever you wanted, build whatever you want and not worry about displacing people because over half the city is vacant. East Cleveland is the closest thing to being able to build a city from the ground up in Cuyahoga County, and we all know how developers like doing that. They could do whatever they want in EC in a way that they couldn't in Hough, Fairfax, or Glenville. So what you're saying the developers want to do doesn't match with what Chris Ronayne has said that the developers want to do. I'll trust what Chris said Cleveland was built for 1 million and there is less than 400,000 so there is plenty of space in Cleveland as well. If you look at Fairfax and Hough, there is actually way more open land to develop that flows with UC than vacant land in the western portion of East Cleveland. And like I said before, most UC development is by the major institutions which aren't going to build away from there campuses/buildings. Chris Ronayne is a great guy and has done a ton for University Circle. But I realize he has to be overly positive and talk up development in the area. I wouldn't be surprised if those comments where made around the time of Circle East, trying to build momentum.

@HTS, The upper area has 64% percent of the households earning under $30,000. The city ranges from around 42% to 87% with the upper area representing the average. Its average household income is just under $18,000. That is the second lowest tract in the city behind the area between Forest Hill Blvd and Lee Blvd along Euclid. Oddly the median home value is about double the rest of the city. I don't have any crime statistics unfortunately but I would assume its not as bad as downhill. Could the upper area be mostly older citizens, long time retired homeowners who no longer work making them fit those categories(I could look but am being lazy. What have you observed?)

@TMH, Mendo said it good. "There are several senior and low-income housing buildings downtown that skew the income and poverty rates." There are also a decent student population who are also in "poverty" based on income. @HTS121, the upper portion of East Cleveland and the Nela Park portion are not that better off statistically as one might guess. Yes it looks nicer because of the trees, etc. but the area has extreme poverty on par with the rest of the city. @nobodyspecific, As for development of UC spilling over into East Cleveland, it is more logical for development to occur within University Circle, Southern Little Italy, Fairfax, Hough, and Glenville, where the barriers do not exist and where expansion is more likely. Additionally, the majority of the major development in UC is by the major institutions, Art Museum, Cleveland Clinic, UH, Case Western, etc. They are expanding and rebuilding their own campuses/buildings and aren't likely to build far away(east cleveland). Extending out to East Cleveland would make no sense. The only spillover that could happen would be residential development, but that should still be more concentrated near these institutions and in UC. People cite Circle East as proof(and its a nice step), but that project required a lot of subsidy and also includes low income units, unlike the market rate housing being built within UC.

^As long as I don't get mocked for posting stats then sure...

But none are in as bad a condition as East Cleveland. And there are many neighborhoods of Cleveland that are at least stable if not some of the fastest growing residential areas in Ohio. If a merger results in the condition of East Cleveland equaling that of the worst neighborhood of Cleveland, it will be an improvement. Many neighborhoods of Cleveland have similar poverty rates, median average income, property value, and crime rates as East Cleveland. Even if East Cleveland benefits, which I don't know how, I don't see how Cleveland benefits.

Just responding to inlovewithCLE who used the word "fix"

^ Cool map but its easier to understand why. Hunting Valley and Pepper Pike have much more valuable properties(excluding downtown and UC obviously) but they are large lots making the value per acre lower compared to Lakewood and other smaller parcel neighborhoods/cities.

Id like to know how often RTA police checks fares on the Healthline and Red Line. I never see them doing either. I never see them at any stations either. I thought that was one of their main responsibilities with the POP but its something I never see. Ive heard other people talking about never seeing them as well. Is their primary job giving parking tickets? Thats the only thing I have seen them do other than being at the Tower City station.

Which wall are we talking about? Hamilton? If so wouldn't the Medical Mart block the views?

How can we fix East Cleveland when we can't even fix our own neighborhoods?

1/2 miles is not far at all. The biggest negative is that this is generally the age group that makes the ride unpleasant.

^^^Liberals hate cities too, were/are racist, abandoned the city, love free parking, big cars, and suburbs too. It's not unique to conservatives.

It interesting because everyone I know who lives in Lake County, many older as well, would love to have a train to downtown. I think a commuter train along the lakefront would do very well. An extension of the red line would fail IMO.

^ it was a joke. It always seems like when we catch these guys we see that they should still be in jail from former crimes.

They will be in jail for a week.

^ those have been up for months KJP!

^Exactly. The lot won't help much because, it hurts the atmosphere, they might charge for parking, and if parking is the real goal, each restaurant there would need a parking lot that size. So in the big picture this lot won't improve anything. The neighborhood was thriving without it and has been fine without loads of parking forever. I don't think anything has changed.

Does little italy need help? Everytime I'm there the place is packed. People like to go for the atmosphere as well as the food. This demolition just hurt the atmosphere a bit. My guess is that the Mayfield Theater will be next to go.

Personally I don't like the design of the tower, but I bet things would have changed if the project would have progressed further. I would have loved having progressive downtown though.

20 years from now other cities will be developing and finishing more rail projects. We will have 5 BRT routes including a converted green/blue line. :-( If I were to ever leave the city of Cleveland, it would be due to the lack of walkable complete urban neighborhoods, poor planning(demolitions, setbacks, parking lots, etc), and a poor transportation network. Actual things that affect daily life, not talking points like nicer stadium scoreboards, a good orchestra(which I am happy we have) and a new convention center.

Thanks. It should be interesting. While rail can be expensive, so are highways and airports. I guess a good comparison would be cost per user? That would probably be difficult to do though.

The city also pushed away Rockefeller right?

Is maintenance road/rail under operating costs? Also do you have figures for construction and other costs not included in operating costs?

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^ I think the development would have happened in Downtown and the trendier neighborhoods anyway so I wouldn't give Frank Jackson too much credit(although he didn't hurt development which is a plus). He fails at being a leader IMO especially in situations dealing with demolitions. We like to say the 1960s are over, but I feel like the past couple years demolition of historic structures is just as prevalent. Without going too far off topic, does anyone have pictures of the two buildings demolished on Euclid Avenue by East 55th a few years ago? I think for the Healthline. Edit: Nevermind I found them. What a loss.