natininja

When can we expect the shoutbox back??? Huh? Huh?!! :mrgreen:

There are plenty of gay boys, though. You can be our ***hag. ;-) Welcome!

Might as well do an array of cameras at several different heights and viewing angles. That way, it will be future-proofed for panoramic 3D.

^ CLE (and other airports) have been mentioned, but only in comparison to CVG. More specifically, in comparison of prices and O&D traffic, which is exactly what's at issue behind Delta's maneuvering at CVG. MD88, I'm glad you've finally gone a step beyond just flat-out stating "there's never been a significant difference." However, without seeing numbers, all I can do is go on unscientific data based on my own and others' experiences, plus the data I was able to find which considers only per-mile costs. Your explanation of why per-mile cost is not the best indicator of average fares is a priori plausible, which is why never committed myself to the data as "proof" of anything, just the best evidence available. Still, the data does jibe with my personal experience, and that of many other people I know (and many others on this board). It seems pretty weird to me that I don't see anyone on here from Cincinnati saying "ehh, the fares were never that bad." Forgive me for finding it quite implausible that we all arrived at the same statistically inaccurate conclusion, time and again, as we accumulated hours on the road for apparently meager savings.

Good idea. Also, they should put a flagpole on top of the crane! You know, just to be sure.

^ Sounds like we are due for some "megaton" news on the streetcar, so Flaming Jesus can be dethroned.

^ How is this not on topic? It's directly relevant to all the news that has been going on with CVG and Delta for the past many years, including very recent news. This is the open question. I don't doubt that the level of past service was too much to sustain. Is the current level of service too much? The point is, we don't know, because service and prices were inflated for so long that there's been a shift in the culture, and one that cannot be simply reversed. MD88 and perhaps MTS maintain that there never was anything abnormal going on, so what you see is what you get, in terms of O&D at CVG. Their claim is stronger because they say we know the answer to your questions definitively. The rest of us are saying it's hard/impossible to tell, but the numbers you get for O&D are definitely a bit lower than they would be without the airport's history. We just don't know how much lower.

Uhmmm, MayDay... The Monroe PD wants you down at the station... They have a few questions they'd like to ask you.

This is correct, but it's also the very point of dispute for MD88. He maintains that the conditions at CVG never were "abnormal". His contention is that "highest fares" does not entail "very high fares", and that "very high fares" never existed at CVG. I found some numbers, which maybe aren't the most informative, but the most obvious reading of them clearly contradicts MD88's claim. So far, I haven't seen the numbers he is using.

I supplied data to the contrary, so the least you can do is back this up. It seems to be the key point on which people disagree with you.

So long as the Hustler Superstore is unscathed, all is right with the world.

Isn't that Queensgate?

I would consider a source that denies, or even strongly questions, climate change not to be neutral. Popular opinion does not dictate science. But, like LK said, methodology is the true determining factor.

God, I hope no one tries to build towers in OTR.

Does Dick Cheney supply you with facts? Or is it Rupert Murdoch? I don't mean to be an a55, but for real that is straight-up inaccurate. Here's some data: http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-351.html

We have one, only we call it a tiara. ;-)

Not sure where to post this, but it's fairly relevant here. Even though it's not about a specific demo. A Change of Course for Cleveland’s Housing Court The foreclosure crisis has resulted in record numbers of vacant homes in neighborhoods across the country, creating a host of problems for the residents who remain. And the problem is compounded, particularly in weak-market cities, when the owners of large vacant property inventories fail to maintain those properties, leaving them littered with garbage, overgrown with weeds, structurally deficient, or worse, violating local laws, and sticking cities with the costs. Over the past several years, Judge Raymond Pianka of Cleveland’s Housing Court has made headlines for his innovative efforts to hold irresponsible landowners accountable for the condition of their neglected and blighting properties. More: http://americancity.org/buzz/entry/2377/

I agree that if the streetcar does what we expect it to, it will increase congestion. But it also allows accommodation for more people than there is currently. That's a key point. If downtown were as vibrant without the streetcar as it will be with the streetcar, then you'd be right in saying it would reduce congestion. But with an increase in people downtown will come more cars. It's not a bad thing. If we get a good transit network, we can start reducing congestion that exists currently, but the (lone) streetcar will quite likely create more congestion. Some of that can be dampened by strategically pricing parking along the route. This won't capture all of it, however. You can bet, though, as congestion increases, streetcar ridership will also increase.

People aren't arguing the fares weren't highest, but they are arguing that the highest fares weren't actually significantly high. They seem to say Cincinnatians have more of a penchant to go bargain hunting in nearby cities, without saving much money while doing so. So the numbers I gave are relevant if you think per-mile fares are indicative of overall ticket costs. 41% higher fares than an airport which is considered to have high fares indicates, pretty clearly, a sharp contrast with average fares. Prices matter, and such a large difference pushes all kinds of people away. Not just Cincinnatians. MTS was saying "well, why aren't other carriers coming in?" The answer is Delta's tactics. I think it's yet to be seen if this turns out well or not. It's really all about how the business community reacts. Is the city less likely to attract major corporations now? Is it now harder to retain them? For the average leisure traveler, it is better. I agree on that. As I said, I now use the airport somewhat regularly. I never did that before. So it's good for my travels, but if it means businesses are less likely to want to be in the city, the down-sizing is a disappointment. Aside from potential damage to the business climate (which is up in the air), I think we agree, Hoot. But you seem to have a different take than MTS and MD88.

The webcam hasn't been updated since last night!

Fix'd

Other carriers have come in, and they've always been undercut by Delta. Once those carriers pulled out, Delta's prices would go right back up. If you want to know why other carriers have not come in recently to pick up slack, your answer is probably right there. As for the fares, I don't think they are very high currently. That's why I've been using CVG. But they used to be quite significantly higher than nearby airports. That's just an indisputable fact. If you don't think so, you obviously weren't searching for flights in and out of CVG during those years. It would be nice if someone could supply some data for pricing in those peak years. I can't find any good stuff on Google, only this from 2009: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29263420/ns/travel-business_travel/ It says CVG fares were the most expensive in the country, with an average per-mile travel cost of 48 cents. It doesn't say what the national average was, but the 25th most expensive airport had an average cost of 34 cents per mile. So CVG's per-mile cost was 41% higher than another airport which still made the "most expensive" list. I don't know what kind of data you guys want, but here are some numbers which back what some people are charging is merely anecdotal.

I don't know what the numbers would be, but I definitely believe they would be higher. Do we know the current level of service is not being maintained? I guess that is probably the case. Why would we suspect the most current cuts will be the last? I think all I am arguing is that historical costs and geography (i.e. nearby airports) have disposed Cincinnatians to make certain decisions regarding air travel. I take the position that you cannot make the claim that Cincinnatians should be expected to behave differently from similarly sized regions, sans effects caused by their unique situation. I further hold that, were airlines to fully take into account the causes of Cincinnatians' current behaviors, they could mold CVG into a more successful airport. I also think it will take time to make these changes, because travel-to-travel has become part of the culture. I disagree with the idea that an insignificant amount of CVG's potential O&D is siphoned off by nearby airports. I disagree with the decisive claim that CLE (or another airport in a similarly sized region) would experience a different fate (i.e. not suffer from a travel-to-travel culture), were it exposed to years of uber-high fares combined with five competitors within a two-hour drive.

Turn in your gay card! NOW! Being a member is a privilege not a right! Please see uncle rando or soitgoes for an exit interview on your way out! Yeah, I totally fail on the whole artistic thing.

The red one, or the black and white one? The white one, with the blue geometric pattern (with black outlines). I think I just like the large geometric pattern, without respect to it being a rug. I used to be a geometry teacher...that rug would have been a nice addition to my classroom! :)