natininja

That gets extremely muddy because you have to start taking into account where people live, where they want to go, how bus service between those places will be affected both short and long term, how the new rail service will accommodate those trips both short and long term, the timeline of rail service roll-out (which is extremely variable due to funding and political issues), etc. You could really spin it any which way depending on the assumptions you decide to go with, or the amount of time you are willing to accept a lower level of service for the return of a higher LOS. e.g. A fully built out rail line could much improve the existing exclusively-bus network, but having that line built segment by segment, and having to support the partial rail line via lesser bus service, could mean a lesser LOS for a long time.

Then "Downtown" should be switched with "CBD" in the thread title. I think discussion about the borders is interesting. And it's relevant to the thread topic since you have to know borders to talk population. Why do you need it to be so black and white? Because it is a fair comparison. Picking and choosing certain areas and excluding others isn't. It would also be interesting to see these numbers. I'm not saying that the discussion about borders isn't interesting or relevent. Right, but we can do both. We can easily compare CBD numbers. But also include other, more colorful comparisons. And we can do intracity comparisons (i.e. if we include XYZ or XYW, this is how the numbers look). Why not allow the broader focus?

My guess is they just want to get as much money from the city as possible.

The Green Party and NAACP have been opponents of the streetcar in Cincinnati because of fears of gentrification. (Well, that's an oversimplification, but it's at least part of the story.) The national NAACP supports transit in their platform, with special mention of rail transit and streetcars. It's definitely a relevant consideration, though I think ultimately unfounded, at least in the particular case of Cincinnati, which I won't go into since there is a thread for that. Streetcars offer an improvement in service and the environment for all users. Poor residents are not indifferent to the higher level of service offered. Gentrifying potential is something to be cognizant of, but ultimately I think it is a depressing argument to say a neighborhood should be denied upgraded services in order keep out the wealthy. That, to me, reeks of condescension and a cruelty of good intentions.

Then "Downtown" should be switched with "CBD" in the thread title. I think discussion about the borders is interesting. And it's relevant to the thread topic since you have to know borders to talk population. Why do you need it to be so black and white?

Just how many islands would they have to sell to make $500bn? Could be doable.

Cincinnati also has "Uptown" which consists of several neighborhoods around the university, hospitals, and the zoo. It's actually a pretty big area, much bigger than downtown. Some of you seem to think it's weird we use the term downtown for more than the CBD, but think about NYC/Manhattan where downtown, midtown, and uptown refer to many neighborhoods.

It would be okay without the grass space.

It's in an attractive historic building rather than a postmodern monstrosity with a front lawn.

Watching that video I am getting pissed off all over again about the "front lawn"!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrr!!! Especially after seeing how swank the Cleveland casino is. They are going to spend a sh!tload of money on poor urban design? Lame!

Anyone know where to find the land areas of Ohio's CBDs?

I met a planner originally from West Chester (living in NYC) who told me "that's downtown" when I told him I lived in Clifton as a kid. From what I can tell, Cincinnatians make a distinction between 'downtown' and 'Downtown' with Downtown being equivalent to the CBD, and downtown including the adjacent neighborhoods in the river basin (OTR, Pendleton (which for those not in-the-know is very tiny and usually considered part of OTR), West End, and Queensgate (which for those not in-the-know is the neighborhood that was completely decimated in the urban renewal days and is now low-density industrial park that never quite panned out and has hardly any residents)). West End is a bit more peripheral so I can see why they tossed it for this study (also the population change would hurt percent change since it is blighted and deteriorating). Queensgate might just as well be included as not, since it has almost nothing but low-density industrial use, due to failed slum-clearance policies and the construction of I-75. Historically, when it was the Kenyon-Barr neighborhood, it was high-density residential adjacent to the CBD, just like OTR. Queensgate is where the city's main train station is, Union Terminal, aka the Hall of Justice.

^^ Approximately what is the land area of that space?

^^ East End??? How does that count? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:East-End-Cincinnati-map.jpg

They are massively overhauling Over-the-Rhine with renovations that most investors/developers wouldn't make. Basically, business and government leaders got together and said...this place is messed up, and we are going to fix it, period. They've built a bunch of condos -- new construction and historic renovations -- as well as rental units, more or less with a "cost per square foot be damned" attitude.

I was just stating a fact...the picture is a little different in Cincinnati than the one Hts121 painted because there is no 3CDC there. They've been a huge force in downtown development in Cincy. And the numbers were not for comparison purposes but to illustrate that 20k is not impossible because there is rapid growth happening now. If you want to place blame for the start of a pissing contest, look here:

3CDC is a major player for which I don't believe Cleveland has anything equivalent.

CBD, Queensgate, OTR, Pendleton, and West End are all downtown neighborhoods. OTR and West End have a lot of vacant housing. CBD has parking lots and office vacancy that can fit residential units, including a parking lot which dunnhumby is building a new headquarters on with a residential component. Mercer Commons (in OTR) and the second phase of the Banks (in CBD) will be online shortly, adding a few hundred new units. The Federal Reserve renovation is adding somewhere around 100 units -- they are putting final touches on that office building conversion. Getting to 20k is ambitious, but certainly possible. The streetcar might kick development up a notch in a couple years, speeding up renovations and new construction, much of which could come online within 5 years.

All's quiet on the Loony Front. I wonder what they're up to.

The thread needs a new name. That is a valid point.

^ Do you have evidence to the contrary? Developers can't seem to work fast enough to satisfy housing demand. Every unit that hits the market is gone just as fast.

What about "Global Financial Crisis"? Or "U.S. Recession That Would Be Occurring if We Hadn't Been Printing Trillions of Dollars Over the Last Few Years: News & Speculation"?

You own an EV? What do you think of it so far?

I should have mentioned Ludlow along with Northside in my post. But College Hill? I imagine those bikes going down the hill and no one wanting to bring them back up! BTW...you haven't posted rarely, you posted NEVER! Until today...Happy day. Welcome...4 years late! ;-) (You predate my existence here by quite a bit of time...if not posts. :-o)

Very cool, bbbbuuuuutttt.... I think the only successful bikeshare program in Cincinnati would be pretty limited. I remember discussing this just a week or so ago on a tangent in some thread or other. I think it would work with stations at a few select garages and places in the basin. The Banks, Washington Park, Fountain/Government Squares, Main Strasse, Monmouth Street, a couple others. An extension to Northside if the system works.