JivecitySTL

I just want to express my sincerest sympathy for my urbanist friends in Cincinnati and this entire forum for the unfortunate election results last night. I hope the streetcar is built in spite of the backwards leadership that won the election. Keep fighting the good fight, your city is worth it. Sorry guys.

Thanks for the kind words! Yes, St. Louis is a very photogenic city, so it makes my job easy. I definitely think St. Louis is a kindred spirit to both Cleveland and Cincinnati. Cincinnati when it comes to built environment and historic river city ambiance; Cleveland with regard to Rust Belt/industrial/political orientation. All you Ohio people should come visit!

Continuing our candid tour of the Red Brick Mama... Click here to see Part I: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,27972.0.html

MAZEL TOV TO THE GOOD PEOPLE OF CINCINNATI!

It's just baffling. By all outward appearances, my city (St. Louis) is very comparable to Cincinnati-- and Cleveland, for that matter. But St. Louis has 28 alderman, all but one of which are Democrats. The one Independent alderman is much more progressive than the establishment Dems. A Republican simply could never be elected in the City of St. Louis. It's been that way for decades. I believe it's much the same case in Cleveland and Pittsburgh. How is Cincinnati so disparate on this? This is not to pit city vs. city; I'm seriously trying to understand the bizarre politics of the Queen City.

Someone please answer me-- how are there that many Republicans in the City of Cincinnati????!?!?!!?! I just don't get it. If Cincy's peer cities are any measure, about 85%+ of registered voters should be Dems. What is up with Cincinnati? This is a question I've had for many, many years. Please-- someone tell me why Cincy is so different from most older major cities in this regard. Please.

Your friends in St. Louis are pulling for you! This is one of the most backwards initiatives I've ever heard of, but it looks like cool heads will prevail. I still can't understand how a city like Cincinnati could possibly have elected as many Republican council/aldermen as it has, but nevertheless, I hope this measure is defeated handily. STREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETCARS!!!!!

I have really enjoyed all the Cleveland Heights threads! I can't help but see the striking similarities between CH and University City (a suburb of STL). My Urbanohio thread on U. City can be seen here: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,12545.msg177904.html#msg177904

We couldn't resist designing a t-shirt for transit lovers: I know it's not an Ohio train, but you can still sport 'em! www.stl-style.com

Beautiful photos of a beautiful city. Baltimore has long been one of my faves, for obvious reasons. To answer the Baltimore vs. Midwest question-- there is definitely a difference. Baltimore has that intangible "East Coast" feeling, due in large part to its proximity to other big cities. You can feel that you are in the middle of a dense and busy corridor. But underneath it, B'more is a down-to-earth, quirky, homespun town with an extremely distinctive flavor. It does not feel terribly unlike the old river cities of the midwest, though.

No one seems to be able to answer the most important question here: WHY IS CLEVELAND SO F*CKING COOL!!!???!! I am somewhat infatuated with that city now. You should all be very, very proud. I love my city more than life itself, and I expect all of you to feel that way about yours, too. CLEVELAND, CLEVELAND! WHO KNOWS, YOU MIGHT EVEN SEE THIS GUY...!!

You are so awesome, KJP. I am for some reason fascinated by the Stockbridge Hotel. Thanks for the update. Is the building vacant today? When did the Stockbridge close? What a cool piece of history!

A) this thread changed my life. How cool! B) I want to know what has become of the following buildings: Stockbridge Hotel The two modern buildings on the right Any recent pics of these places today? WELL DONE!!

^Great info, thanks!

^I had the great pleasure of hanging out with Katie when I was there for the GLUE conference. What an amazing and passionate person. That's Cleveland's true strength-- its diehard residents. Every city needs a Katie O'Keefe. I f*cking LOVE Cleveland too!

Not speaking for ColDay, but he's probably referring to areas such as STL's Central West End, which features clusters of highrise apartment, condo and co-op buildings. Here are some pics:

I love all you Ohioans. You are all so knowledgeable and passionate and awesome. Damn, I love Cleveland. I LOVE CLEVELAND.

I'm not necessarily talking about "districts" outside of downtown. Whether they're downtown or not, I said I noticed that Cleveland has a dearth of pre-war highrise apartment buildings, whereas other cities have a lot more. There weren't even any in downtown Cleveland (not counting converted lofts). That is strange to me. Pittsburgh-- There aren't too many, but Oakland has several mid and highrise 1920s-era apartment buildings (they were luxury when they were built). I know because my friend used to live in one of them. Squirrel Hill has some large ones as well, although they aren't tall. Though it's considered part of Center City, Rittenhouse Square has plenty of 'em. There are countless other historic residential highrises dotted throughout central Phila. Come on now, you know that.

^come on, ColDay-- Baltimore, Philly, Boston and Pittsburgh all have a number of historic residential highrises outside of downtown. I categorically disagree with your post. Indianapolis? not so sure about that one.

If I haven't told you lately, I LOVE CLEVELAND!! Also, do most people there consider Akron part of the metro area? The tour guide said the Cleveland area has about 2.1 million, which doesn't include the CSA. Is Akron sort of regarded as its own city there? Its proximity would suggest otherwise, but Northeast Ohio has a different culture than some other parts of the Midwest.

Yes, we did go to all of these neighborhoods, and we also went through Hough. Shaker Square and Edgewater remind me of University City, an inner-ring STL suburb. Here's a thread I did on U. City a few years ago: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,12545.0.html Those 'hoods are very nice indeed. I guess what I'm wondering is why Cleveland never built luxury highrise apartment buildings like most cities during the 1920s. It would seem like the University Circle area would be well suited for them. Another thing I noticed-- Cleveland certainly has racial polarization, but not nearly to the degree I expected. I was expecting the East Side to be 90% African-American, similar to St. Louis's North Side, but it appears that is not the case at all. I guess certain East Side neighborhoods are black and certain others are white. What is the racial breakdown of Cleveland? Thanks guys, great discussion!

Make no mistake-- CLEVELAND IS ONE OF THE COOLEST CITIES ON THE PLANET. I loved it before this visit, but I had an epiphany this time. I feel like I really found Cleveland's soul. The people are the city. Clevelanders are absolutely wonderful. I feel very connected to the city now. I invite all of you to visit STL anytime. I think you would all appreciate it very much, as the two cities share a great deal in common. I miss Cleveland already.

Thanks! I also forgot a couple other observations: Your Healthline BRT is just fabulous. Well executed, seems to enjoy strong ridership and looks great. The attitude in Cleveland is a little less optimistic than I would have expected. The urbanists are very proud of their city, but they seem resigned to the fact that Cleveland is shrinking and will continue to shrink. There also seems to be no real plan to encourage new urban development on vacant land other than urban farms. This is similar to what I'm hearing from Detroiters about their city. In St. Louis-- though we have suffered over the last 60 years too-- there is a general optimism that the city bottomed out several years ago and is now growing, albeit VERY modestly. There is no talk of "right sizing" or the "shrinking city" phenomenon. Urban agriculture is definitely becoming more commonplace here, but new eco-friendly infill is still the desired outcome for vacant land in STL. I'll think of more soon.

I started a new thread so more Clevelanders would read my thoughts. I just returned from the GLUE conference in your fair city and though it was my fifth time to the Mistake by the Lake (what a great mistake!), I got to know and see on a far more intimate level this time. I will share some of my thoughts, and since STL is my frame of reference, please excuse me if there are some benign comparisons with my city. Let me start by saying WOW. What a fine, fine, fine city you have. I swear, if Cleveland is one of the "worst off" cities in America, then America ain't doin' so bad because Cleveland is vibrant, colorful, [relatively] clean, and full of knowledgeable, passionate, creative and ambitious people. We took a 3-hour bus tour of the entire city and ventured off on walking tours of a number of cool 'hoods. University Circle is a treasure. I walked all over Wade Park and UC and CWU on a guided tour and was struck by how complete it is as a cultural center. The caliber of educational, cultural and medical institutions in such close proximity is impressive as hell, and the grounds are beautiful. I love your retrofabulous Rapid stations (and Red Line trains). The people in Cleveland are just cool without even trying. They aren't flashy or pretentious, just cool and real and genuinely urban. Everyone was friendly and helpful. Cleveland has it all over STL when it comes to new infill construction. I love your daring contemporary design. We need much more of that. Downtown Cleveland struck me as vibrant, clean and full of things to do. You also have a lot of basic amenities that make it a complete neighborhood. It looks MUCH better than when I was there a few years ago. The Lady Gaga show was there Thursday night and I enjoyed seeing all the offbeat costumes (saw lots of cute Cleveland girls in their skivvies!). Cleveland does have cute girls. I really got a sense of Burnham's majestic city plan. Downtown Cleveland feels like a truly big city. You can tell it was built to be great. E. 4th Street, while not my scene, is very well done. It's inviting and festive; every city should have someplace like it. Great for tourists who aren't into exploring the real city. W. 6th St. should be renamed Douchebag Row. Cleveland is definitely not a brick city. I was really surprised at how few buildings are made of brick there. It's the exact opposite of STL in this regard. In St. Louis, you just don't see buildings that aren't brick-- EVERYTHING here is brick. Cleveland is a frame town. I also noticed that the vast majority of houses there have driveways, which is definitely not something you see in most St. Louis neighborhoods. I saw some alleys in Cleveland, but not nearly as many as one would expect in an older city. I think these features make Cleveland feel and look less "big city." It does not strike me as a densely built city. A lot of neighborhoods had a Mayberry small town quality. Nevertheless, they were awesome as all get out. All in all, St. Louis does feel more urban, but I wonder if that's due to its older age and ubiquitous red brick fabric. STL just feels much more dense in general. There is a glaring absence of pre-war highrise apartment/condo buildings in Cleveland. I even asked one of the guides about this and she said that Cleveland just doesn't have them. Weird. It seems like there was a lot of wealth in the city during that era, and most big cities have a lot more than I saw there. STL has a gazillion of them surrounding Forest Park, and a number of others in various other parts of the city. One of the guides also said there are no longer wealthy neighborhoods in the city. Is this true???? There have to be some pockets of million-dollar homes in the city limits. Please enlighten me! Great restaurants in that town, although the "hip" hoods don't have as much en masse as I expected. The only sushi bar in Tremont is Parallax?? Their sushi menu left a lot to be desired, and it was overpriced. Ohio City apparently has a dearth of sushi bars too. What's up with that? Great galleries in Tremont, and definitely a distinctive local flavor that makes the neighborhood so charming. Love it. I LOVE THE RAPID. I love your old ass Red Line trains, they are so hardcore. I love how the RTA makes absolutely no effort to make them user friendly. I don't even think Stephen Hawking could figure out how to buy a f*cking ticket on that system. I'm not kidding though-- I find that endearing. I think Cleveland feels relatively safe, despite the fact that we saw someone getting arrested in front of our hotel who left a trail of blood that ran the entire length of the Arcade (we were at the Hyatt). We got drunk and went to karaoke at Tina's in Detroit-Shoreway. Holy $hit, that place is a divebar paradise! I don't know who was cooler-- the old guy running the karaoke machine who looked like he was on life support, or his overweight wife who was there to watch him. I feel like that was a real taste of no-frills Cleveland. What a trip. The soul of the city lives at Tina's. The building itself looks like a double-wide trailer. I have never in my life seen a better dive bar than that. I mean it. The young urbanists in Cleveland blow my mind. Boy do they love their city, and I see why. I just fell in love with Cleveland. One of the other STL people at the conference said she wanted to buy a summer home in Cleveland. That pretty much sums up what kind of conference this was-- we are city nerds! I'm sure I'll think of more, but feel free to chime in or ask me anything. What a wonderful, first-class city you have there.

You guys-- your city is very, very special. We just spent an action-packed 3 days there for the GLUE conference and took a 3-hour bus tour of the entire city. We also had a walking tour of University Circle, the Gordon Square district and Ohio City. Rode the Rapid, met some amazing people and loved every second of it. I have some observations about Cleveland that I'll elaborate on more when I get some time, but jesus f'cking christ, you have an awful lot to be proud of. This was my fifth time in Cleve and absolutely the best!!! I LOVE CLEVELAND!!!!!!!! p.s. The urbanist community there is quite impressive. More later...