Clevelander17

Thank you for this response, it's exactly what I was looking for because I suspected that the changes in East Cleveland weren't completely a normal case of white flight. So they suffered from many of the same things that the eastside of Cleveland proper suffered from? I didn't know that blockbusting played such a big role! I wonder why places like Euclid, Cleveland Heights, and Shaker Heights were mostly sheltered from such practices? By the way, I read the entire other thread about EC, very interesting stuff. I'm sorry I started a new thread without doing a search first, but hopefully some new information came up here.

Sounds about right to me. There are too many pieces in place here for him to leave to play for an unknown like the Clippers, Nets, or Knicks. Perhaps in a few years the situation may be different, but right now, it wouldn't make sense (unless he's interested in something other than championships). Also, think about this: The cost of living in Cleveland is considerably lower than New York or Los Angeles. I don't know if it matters to athletes that much or not (probably not), but not only can the Cavs pay him more money, but his millions go much farther here. :)

LeBron's staying in Cleveland, but the Knicks are going to have a ton of cap room next year, so even without LBJ, they're going to be able to land a big name or two that should certainly make them more competitive.

They usually go hand-in-hand. Does anyone really believe that Strickland is going to let a bill get by him that makes Ohio right-to-work?

:roll:

Right to work definitely sounds like an issue that distinguishes Ohio from much of the sun belt (though unions might be one reason why Ohio's wages are significantly higher than every booming southern states' except for Georgia's). I note that unionization policy is unrelated to "fiscal conservatism" though, so I'm still not particularly swayed by any GOP candidate who claims that state tax policy and reducing state spending is what's going to change Ohio's future and that they will really chart a different course from Strickland. Do you not believe that the pie can grow? I think that there are things that we can do to encourage it to grow, and things that we can do to limit its growth. I think that Kasich's ideas are better to promote growth than anything I've seen from Strickland. I suspect that you see things differently and there's very little that I or anyone else could say that would change your mind. That's fine.

Wasn't East Cleveland at one time one of the area's more prosperous suburbs? What events lead up to its current decline? I've looked around online and haven't been able to find a nice historical summary of how things changed. On the other side of the coin, is there a future for the city? Can it recover to its previous glory? Or is it only going to get worse in the coming years? I would like to think that it has a number of things going for it (proximity to University Circle and downtown, rail service), but these are advantages that haven't seemed to have matter much in the past few decades.

If you're a little kid, it makes for a great story to tell your friends that you were recruited and offered athletic scholarships to play ball at Ignatius, Eds, Benny, Padua, etc. I think some people put too much stock in these situations.

Taft and Kasich are different people. Punishing Kasich for Taft's ineffectiveness and corruption issues isn't really fair.

It's funny that the same old arguments from public school supporters get repeated over and over to the point that they're accepted as truth. Catholic schools don't recruit and don't give out athletic scholarships, PERIOD. You can't provide any evidence to the contrary, except perhaps hearsay, because no such evidence exists. As for Cleveland Heights, I know the details of the situation, I know what they were punished for, and what actually happened. There was a reason why they were sitting home come playoff time.

It's more than just taxes. For instance, if Ohio wants to compete with the South/West, another big step would to become a right-to-work state. I think the weather situation is just a tiny piece of why business has left or avoided Ohio. There are things within our control that we can do!

I know exactly what I'm talking about. Jeff Rotsky has had a cloud over him everywhere he's gone. Cleveland Heights got caught, plain and simple, and Eds and Iggy have never been caught, because they don't engage is such activities. Glenville is the next to get in trouble, by the way, because they're the worst in the area. If anyone hasn't a clue about which he speaks, it's you. Your jealous rage leads you to see things that don't actually exist. Anyone with any familiarity with the Catholic school system knows that your view of the world is not only ridiculous, it's impossible.

Taft was a joke, he did nothing. Ohio's not going to thrive again until there it is led by true fiscal conservatives.

The Laffer Curve has more application to real-world problems that Keynesian ideas. The fact that people actually try to argue in favor of Keynes is astounding, no legitimate economist takes it seriously. It's like the creationists arguing against Evolution. If you want the status quo for Ohio, then by all means, vote for Strickland. He's done a great job peddling it in his first four years. We're still losing jobs and population while other states are booming. If you truly believe that Ohio's problems are bigger than anything the government can do, then the state is doomed no matter we vote for.

I know that the public school supporters have a problem with this, but athletic scholarships simply do not happen. Catholic schools simply do not have the time or money it would take to recruit an all-star team to win state titles (an endeavor that has no financial reward, mind you). It's just a bad business model. It didn't happen in the 1990s, and it doesn't happen now. Need-based is completely different. If you heard a story from one of your friends cousin's best friend, you heard wrong (if I had a nickel for every time I heard someone use such a situation as "evidence"). Athletic recruiting is illegal per OHSAA guidelines. If any of this was happening, these schools would have been punished for engaging is such activities. On the flip side, I do know of public schools actually getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar, in fact it just happened to Cleveland Heights this past fall. :)

Do not forget HB, the new (ish) wing that houses sciences and the cafeteria is stunning... I should do a photo thread today of the area. Yeah, I don't believe HB or Laurel are any threat to go relocate, though Laurel did open up and eastern extension campus in Geauga County a few years ago. Yes, and it's no coincidence that many of them ended up in Shaker Heights! The Van Swearingens wooed them to leave the city for exurban/rural (at the time) Shaker Heights.

St. Ignatius doesn't give out athletic scholarships, and in fact, I think you'll be hard-pressed to find any Catholic school that does. I've never heard of WRA being a school for kids that had screwed up, but admittedly I don't know much about them (other than playing them in hockey a few times in high school). Gilmour is technically a Catholic school (was established for wealthy Catholics), but they really have more in common with the other east-side independents than most Catholic schools. Ignatius and GA are like night and day (urban vs. exurban, all-male vs. co-ed, gigantic vs. tiny, etc.). Gilmour definitely has a solid hockey program, but they haven't been able to get over the hump in recent years. But really they're right on par with the traditional area powers like Eds, Padua, U.S., Ignatius. Benedictine is much smaller than Eds or Ignatius. Benny plays Eds and Iggy in most sports, but the Bengals are in a different OHSAA division so it's not as intense as it might otherwise be. Benedictine also has rivalries with VASJ, Youngstown Cardinal Mooney and Akron SVSM. I've heard great things about it, but it's tiny. I'd be curious to see if they're planning on expanding enrollment and how they'd handle such potential growth.

Yeah, I really hate the 2-3-2 format for the Finals. I still would rather see the Cavaliers get home court advantage throughout.

Sit them all, I think the Cavs can beat the Sixers without any of those guys. And if they can't, it doesn't really matter, they still have a nice cushion. Remember that they really have an extra game on the Lakers because of the season series tiebreaker, too.

This is the same question I ask all the time whenever some says tax cuts/elimination. How are you going to pay for it? How are you going to close the gap in the budget that it creates. I hear some ideas in response but nothing that would come even close to what is being proposed on the other end. So, if either gubernatorial candidate is going to campaign on cutting taxes, I want to see a balance sheet..... a SPECIFIC balance sheet. Are you familiar with the Laffer Curve? Truth be told, the first few years after significant tax cuts could be rough. It wouldn't be a short-term fix, that's for certain.

$17,000+/yr for Kindergarten!!!... and the price goes up from there. I think Hathaway Brown starts at $18,500. U.S., Laurel and Gilmour are in that range as well. And I would not necessarily call US and Hawken near-east side schools anymore. The University School building in Shaker Heights used to house the entire school for 80 some years. But their upper campus was built on a 400 acre lot in Hunting Valley. They have a maple syrup factory and fish hatchery in addition to great athletic fields. Hawken also moved its upper school from its Lyndhurst campus to just across the county line in Geauga. I think they transformed some kind of gigantic farm into their new campus. It sits on a very large parcel, with trails and endless fields. Yes, the newer campuses of U.S. and Hawken are, in a word, expansive. Hawken is technically in Chester Township but they have a mailbox across the street so they can claim a Gates Mills address. I don't know how one can define the identity of those split campus schools. Both maintain significant presences in the inner-ring eastern suburbs, and both clearly have a strong draw in that area, but it's also apparent that their student base has slowly progressed further east in each successive decade. Although each seems committed to keeping their lower campuses in place (for instance Hawken just built a new middle school and U.S. has made significant capital investment to their Shaker campus), I wouldn't be shocked if at some point in the future either or both moved their entire campuses to Hunting Valley/Gates Mills. Hopefully the trends of sprawl reverse themselves before that becomes an issue!

That and Solomon Schechter (sp?). Don't forget University Lower School (k-8) is in Shaker, same neighborhood as Laurel, Laureldale. I live in the Malvern neighborhood in Shaker and its a shame they shut down Malvern elementary in the early 90s... I had to go to Onaway and I always missed the damn bus. I grew up near Northwood School in UH and the same thing happened to me. I started elementary school a few years after it was closed, so I had to attend Canterbury, and unfortunately, I was just barely close enough that I was ineligible for bus service, so I had to walk. It's cool that Shaker Heights found a way to re-purpose those classic old school buildings and not tear them down. Sussex is the family center, Moreland is the main library, Malvern is home to a private school whose name escapes me, and the other elementary school I believe is sitting dormant (the one near Shaker Square off of Van Aken). CH-UH tore down a few of its beautiful old school buildings (Taylor and Coventry, perhaps one or two others) and replaced them with ugly 60s/70s style monstrosities. Also, although SH doesn't have nine elementary schools like it used to, it's good that the district kept some semblance of its neighborhood school system. SE-L had to all but abandon its neighborhood schools a year or two back. I've always been struck by just how beautiful the architecture of the CH-UH and SH school district buildings are. Really unique for this area, and probably even statewide. You just don't see many old buildings like that around these days, especially not in the suburbs. Though I do get the impression that they're very expensive to maintain!

Note that Gates Mills and Hunting Valley are home to the uppers campuses for Hawken School and University School, respectively, and the two Shaker Heights neighborhoods on the above list are home to Hathaway Brown and Laurel. Just a coincidence, but very interesting, none-the-less. Orthodox Jews don't tend to use the public or private/independent schools. They have their own system of schools, such as Fuchs Mizrachi and a few others whose names escape me at the moment. I had a number of Jewish friends growing up who attended U.S. or Hawken for high school after attending grade school at Agnon.

From where did you obtain enrollment numbers? And were you doing it for one grade (since NMSFs is limited to 11th graders)? Even though the PSAT is taken in the 10th-11th grade I looked for stats of either, A. senior class or if "A." could not be found B. total enrollment of high school/4. To be fair I did not find a reliable source that had every stat so some stats are from different sources. (some are school websites, some were from city-data.com and some were wikipedia) That being said they are by no means to be taken as absolute fact. Thats why I stressed the statistical "groupings" that seemed to have formed. i.e. the elite privates, near east site publics and others... Good deal, it's hard to pin these numbers down. Another reliable source is the NCES website. In a perfect world we'd be able to find out how many kids took the test at each school each year, but that information would be nearly impossible to track down.

I was going to comment that I thought that 15 number was a bit a maximum outlier for them, but from doing a bit of research, I see they had 16 and 12 in the previous two years. Pretty amazing!