Clevelander17

Which is precisely why it's ridiculous that every few years these new developments keep popping up.

That's good news, but I'm a tad annoyed that Cleveland was not chosen to host any Copa America 2016 matches.

At least two of the things (education and home values) on that list are perception-based issues that are worsened by the occurrence of sprawl. Specifically in reference to education, I'll just use Cleveland Heights as an example. The schools in CH-UH offer the same high quality of education as it did 30-40 years ago. The only difference is that it serves a significantly more challenging enrollment base then it did in prior decades which results in lower test scores (which in turn is the basis for some to refer to the schools here as "failing"). I think a similar statement can be made regarding many other inner-ring suburbs, though perhaps not necessarily for a larger system like CMSD. Probably for another thread, but CH/UH school districts also suffer from many non-resident students who register there on relatives addresses to escape the Cleveland and East Cleveland schools. I'm not sure it's any worse in the Heights schools than in any other inner-ring suburb, however I was only using CH-UH as an example of the real issue of "failing" systems: It's not that the quality of the schools themselves have changed, it's who they're now serving and the invalid system used to rate schools in Ohio and nationwide.

At least two of the things (education and home values) on that list are perception-based issues that are worsened by the occurrence of sprawl. Specifically in reference to education, I'll just use Cleveland Heights as an example. The schools in CH-UH offer the same high quality of education as it did 30-40 years ago. The only difference is that it serves a significantly more challenging enrollment base then it did in prior decades which results in lower test scores (which in turn is the basis for some to refer to the schools here as "failing"). I think a similar statement can be made regarding many other inner-ring suburbs, though perhaps not necessarily for a larger system like CMSD.

Well, on the bright side, I still believe that OSU has a path to the playoffs, but it needs some help. Most notably, it needs PSU to beat MSU next weekend. FWIW, Nate Silver has OSU's playoff chances now at about 30%. I'm not ready to give up hope yet...

Go figure, CWRU loses to a team led by an alumnus. Probably ends any chance of a playoff spot for the Spartans.

This is an argument that is easy to make but very hard to prove. It's at least as likely the the varying level of success for each of these suburbs is largely due to the nature of the businesses that at various times allowed them to thrive (heavy industry which is dying nationwide versus white collar) and/or the geographic nature of the suburbs themselves and when they were they developed. In other words, Solon vs. Maple is apples to oranges, and the success or failure of each goes beyond simple local decision-making. But when it comes time for Maple to make decisions that do affect its future, it certainly doesn't help that it's supposed to be "competing" with neighbors like Solon that have inherent advantages that Maple could never hope to duplicate.

I've heard this argument before and the problem is that none of these monopolies are enshrined into any state or Federal constitutions. I guess legally governments allow them to exist, but there's no requirement that they exist. There's no law preventing others from entering the market. You could argue that the barriers to entry into each of the above markets are significant, but they're not insurmountable.

Beachwood has grown slowly and in a well-planned manner since its founding. As mentioned above, the land upon which Eaton and Ahuja exist were not part of Beachwood 30 years ago. But the other issue at hand would be zoning regulations. Yes I'm shifting the goalposts, no I don't care because these tactics are all part of the same strategy of revenue hoarding. I would still be interested in hearing your solution for Maple Heights (and other suburbs like it) since none of my ideas seem to be realistic to you.

I'm pretty sure Cleveland and Beachwood split the income taxes half and half for any company in Chagrin Highlands. Then there's something about Warrensville and Beachwood schools splitting money too That's my suspicion as well based on what I've read about old agreements between the cities. Originally the agreement goes back about three decades to when Figgie International was going to move its corporate headquarters there and that land was owned by Cleveland but located in then unincorporated Warrensville Township. Figgie's headquarters plan obviously fell through, but the Warrensville Township land was split up amongst Beachwood, Orange, Warrensville Heights and the newly-created Highland Hills. This was basically free land, claimed by Beachwood (and almost entirely non-residential) that they've turned into what is essentially free revenue through the development of hotels, an office park, Ahuja Medical Center, and most recently the poaching of Eaton Corp.

I don't think my idea explicitly benefits sprawl. It benefits bedroom communities and suburbs and unincorporated rural areas (or at least their residents). A lot of the bedroom communities at least are located towards the urban core. Admittedly this not my favorite solution, but what we have right now is unsustainable and unfair. Residents of Maple Heights (for example) that work in Cleveland or Beachwood are paying large chunks of their salary to prop up services in those places while services in their town languish. However the best solution, short of full-scale mergers, would be regional tax-sharing. There is no logical reason why when a large corporation locates in our region that just one suburb should reap all of the benefits. Eaton Corporation is located in Beachwood but it's on the fringe of that suburb far away from residential areas and close to a freeway interchange that we all paid for. It's asinine that only Beachwood residents benefit from the significant income tax revenue generated by the overwhelmingly non-resident employment base at Eaton.

But nuances of income tax policy aside, I would love to hear from you what you believe the best solution is for your former community and others like it?

Then Cleveland is too, correct? To a large degree, yes, though Cleveland's borders weren't drawn specifically to capture as much income tax revenue as possible while excluding as many people from being residents as possible. I would propose eliminating the law (loophole, IMO) that allows cities to charge a full share of income taxes to non-residents, most of whom spend no more than 30% of their hours in the city where they work. And then in turn allow cities to change a slightly increased income tax rate on residents. I believe the current rate is capped at 2.85%. Hypothetically this would allow residents to pay less in taxes yet for many local budgets to see an increase in funding.

You're completely missing the point. Suburbs like Beachwood and Independence are leeching because huge chunks of their budgets are being paid for by people that don't live in those places. We may not be a socialist nation, but the situation we have here that allows for that to happen sure as hell isn't capitalism. We may not be a socialist nation, but no community in Northeast Ohio is an island. Short of some sort of serious outside intervention, communities like Maple Heights are not going to make it. Maybe that's for the better. Maybe nobody cares.

I would be worried that the language in Issue 2 would be used more broadly to smack down other initiatives that go against the General Assembly's wishes. We have what I would consider a very extremist legislature in this state (thanks in large part to gerrymandering) and their views often don't reflect the views of the people. I think we need a fairly open and free ballot initiative process to keep the Assembly in check as necessary. Marijuana needs to be legal, but there are significant problems with Issue 3 as well.

It almost reaches a point where it might be better to discuss better uses for the land that don't hinge on hoping for people to move back in.

If the idea of responsive and local self-governance is important, which I think it is to some degree, then the other idea is tax revenue-sharing like I suggest above. Unfortunately those suckling on the teat of the region will fight tooth-and-nail to maintain the status quo. One thing the state could do tomorrow that would make a lot of people happy and indirectly solve the problem would be to put a cap on the rate of income tax that one can be forced to pay into cities in which they work but don't live and raise the cap for local residential income tax rates.

I lived there from 1963 until 2007, worked there from 1985-94 and again 1996-99, co-moderate the “You’re From” group on Facebook, and the last time I went there other than just passing through was the opening game at the new stadium last year. So yeah, I've watched the place get pretty beaten up, a lot of it self inflicted. A city manager form of government might help, and I've been told by someone close to a mayoral candidate its a topic that will be looked at during the next charter review. That said, there would be absolutely no benefit to merging with Cleveland, or for that matter Bedford. The very suggestion would be about as popular now as it was then. It would be resisted. Vigorously. But the real reason why discussing annexation is a complete waste of time is the way the more affluent (Solon, Walton Hills) and/or well organized (Bedford) suburbs would react. They would go all out to resist, and there’s no feasible scenario where the state would not side with them. The GOP would back them on general principles, the Democrats because they still need some votes from them. Indeed, these objections would block federal promotion of annexations as well. Edit: left out the bolded "no" on the first take. So then there's literally almost no hope for suburbs like Maple Heights and the question then becomes if they're even worth trying to salvage. There's no way they'll ever have the finances to pull themselves out of this mess in a way that creates a positive feedback cycle to attract stability. So if we're basically saying that that 5.17 square miles of Cuyahoga County has no value and no future because of lines drawn decades ago, then the question becomes what happens to the people living there? They'll slowly move elsewhere triggering another round of middle class flight. It's happened time and again in this region, despite the areas being left behind being more than livable (in terms of housing stock and amenities offered). We need to end this cycle now through outright city-county-county mergers or at least some significant tax sharing plan. Small groups of residents (in suburbs like Beachwood, Independence, Westlake, etc.) are leeching off of the region and funding Cadillac services for themselves that they're flat out not paying for while suburbs like Maple Heights are withering and dying because of anachronistic geographic boundaries.

Like most, I was shocked and saddened by this. Apparently Flip had only been diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma only a few months ago. Cancer's a bitch. Same here. I had no idea he was this sick. By all accounts he was not just a great coach, but one of the NBA's really good guys. So sad.

Timberwolves coach and Cleveland's own Flip Saunders has lost his battle with cancer. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13968302/minnesota-timberwolves-coach-flip-saunders-dies-cancer-age-60

I'm not a housing expert, but I think that lifespan of a structure has to be connected to how well it was built in the first place. In Greater Cleveland, there was a rush to build housing in the suburbs and so we have an abundance of (IMO) cheaply-built homes from the 50s and 60s located in second-ring suburban areas*. I would expect that these homes wouldn't last as long as the more solidly-constructed homes in first-ring suburban areas from Pre-WWII years. *Including but not limited to: South Euclid, Mayfield Heights, Wickliffe, Willowick, Euclid, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Parma, Parma Heights, Warrensville Heights.

I understand the economies of scale argument, but if I'm a city like Bedford or Maple Heights, I see the costs outweighing the benefits of unilaterally merging with Cleveland. I definitely think a full-scale city-county merger benefits all inner-ring suburbs like those two, however.

I may have missed this earlier in the thread, but what happens if both issues pass?

This article misses the point on how badly these inner ring suburbs need to embrace regionalism to survive. Combine maple heights, Garfield heights, Bedford heights etc. shared emergency services, shared tax base etc. it's the only way They definitely need regionalism to survive, but combining with each other doesn't do much. These suburbs have been poached and sucked dry by their second-ring and exurban neighbors. A better and fairer solution along those lines would be to combine Garfield Heights with Cuyahoga Heights and Valley View, Maple Heights with ?, and the Bedfords with Walton Hills, Oakwood, Northfield, and/or Macedonia. But of course, that's exactly why all of these municipalities exist in the first place: So the wealth can be segregated from the poverty. Even when that wealth is unearned in the form of non-resident income tax havens.

I think you missed the point I was making regarding the irony of the situation considering the company's reputation and the location it has chosen for this area. And as for the rest of your response, you haven't needed justification in the past to make thinly-veiled racist comments, so why start now?