Clevelander17

Yeah to clarify, that's what I meant. The crash started a domino effect that lead to a significant percentage of housing in some specific areas (inner-ring suburbs particularly) quickly going from owner-occupied to Section 8 rentals.

First of all, I love the way FoxNews runs their debate segments. The "neutral" host and one or two conservative guests come on and pound away on whatever poor token liberal was brought on for the segment. It's their tried and true formula and it's still working after all of these years. Second, I love the logic of the brief education discussion they had: Low-income students, who on average have lower test scores (regardless of race), are concentrated in inner-city schools. These schools end up having lower overall average test scores and are then labelled "failing" by faulty ratings systems. The proposed solution by conservatives is without hesitation always "school choice," where these low income students are almost always segregated further into other failing schools (usually charter schools). The fact that this housing plan would, by nature, allow more students access to "better" schools (i.e. those schools with larger concentrations of wealthier students and thus higher test scores) is completely glossed over. But the entire education discussion ignores the real reasons why schools "fail" or "succeed," so it's almost as if it would be better off if not even discussed when talking about housing policy (which is really an unfortunate consequence of the ignorance).

Or that these neighborhoods were destroyed by the crash of '08.

I guess that's a fair point. I'm only in favor of ending the program if it continues on as it has been in concentrating low-income residents in a limited number of neighborhoods/suburbs.

I think that the transportation challenge is an issue, but there are a number of second- or third- ring Cleveland suburbs with strong non-residential tax bases and decent transportation access that I think need to be looked at as future locations for low-income housing and expansion of Section 8. Some of these suburbs are even in bordering counties, which is also important to consider.

I don't know if I agree. In looking at the map that is on page 6 of the report that StrapHanger linked, it appears as if there are suburbs where every neighborhood has at least 10% Section 8 housing, and several neighborhoods of 20-45% Section 8 housing. IMO, those are very high concentrations, levels at which can be devastating (for a wide variety of reasons) to the fabric of those neighborhoods. I get why these concentrations happened in those particular suburbs, but I think an argument could be made that all of these suburbs would have been better off if Section 8 never existed and these homes were abandoned long-term until the marker recovered or even torn down if that became necessary. Maybe I'm not being fair to Section 8 residents and making assumptions; but if nothing else (behavior aside), by definition, these are low-income residents and they're not contributing as much to the local tax base, though still using services. This of course would mean that more of the burden for funding these services fall onto other residents, particularly if there is not a solid base of commerce or industry in these suburbs. And yes, bringing this all back around to the topic at hand, this does lead to sprawl for middle and upper-income people that look at the situation like this.

I guess that's true to a large degree, but the issue remains that, at least in Greater Cleveland with our insular municipalities, where you live (specifically who you live near or is in your neighborhood) will often dictate how much you pay in taxes, who you're children are going to school with, how your city's services are being utilized, and a whole host of other quality of life issues that people do care about, even if they don't necessarily get along with their immediate neighbors. This is why people go to such great lengths to surround themselves with other like-minded or high-achieving people, even if they don't necessarily like them on a personal level. It's also, I believe part of the motivation behind the failed Section 8 program, which sounded good in theory, but hasn't come close to working out in practice and ended up fueling sprawl even further.

Right, I get that there are reasons why middle and upper-income people usually don't choose to live near large concentrations of low-income people. However we have government policies that are placing the burden of the issues that come with concentrating poor people in only a few areas, and this needs to be addressed. The damage is already done to some communities.

Maybe not Avon or Kirtland, but how about Solon, Mentor, Rocky River, Beachwood, etc.? Reasonable access to sidewalks and public transport in those areas. The point I'm making, and maybe I'm having a conversation with myself, is that if the government is in the business of providing housing for people that they shouldn't be concentrating this housing in just a relatively few areas. It's overburdening these communities and acting as a driver for economic and racial segregation. And in an area as provincial as ours with so many fiefdoms that are fighting with each other for funding and refusing to share (even revenues that aren't really theirs), this is a big problem.

Well he was and he did. The Spurs will be nasty next year.

IMO, this has been a huge pet issue of mine, as from what I can tell just about every eastside inner-ring suburb of Greater Cleveland has already shouldered far too much of the burden for low-income housing, to the extent that it has damaged or even decimated local institutions in many of these cities. I have to be careful how I word this, but a big part of the reason why many of these inner-ring suburbs have "struggling" or "failing" schools is because the ratings systems are biased against schools and districts with large concentrations of low-income students (and the challenges they bring with them). A big part of the reason why the services in these areas are lacking is because there exists only limited local industry and low-income residents can only afford to pay so little in taxes. Government housing projects and Section 8 housing has long been far too concentrated in certain Cleveland neighborhoods and inner-ring suburbs. I don't know if this ruling is the solution, but something must be done about spreading it out a bit so the middle-income residents of only a few areas (not just Cleveland proper, but also suburbs like Cleveland Heights, Euclid, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Richmond Heights, Shaker Heights, South Euclid, Warrensville Heights) aren't dealing with the entire burden.

Well, Japan made some mistakes early that made the final outcome somewhat anticlimactic, but this is a nice win for the program. Been a long time coming.

So latest rumor is that Haywood could be traded to Brooklyn for Joe Johnson. Word is that Varejao might be involved in the deal as well.

This rotation is just nasty right now. Unfortunately the offense needs to start helping out a bit.

Hearing some other names as possibilities in potential Haywood trade: DeMar DeRozan, Jarrett Jack, Jamal Crawford. I'd take any of them as they'd all be upgrades and provide bench depth at the positions they play.

Yeah once he lost the no-no, there was no reason to keep him in. And actually if it were me and there was no-hitter in the picture at all, I would have pulled him after the 7th. His count was already getting up there and they had a big lead.

What's the word on J.R. returning?

I'd rather have neither, though I really wanted Norris to turn into a solid contributor for someone when he came out of CSU. Never happened. I'm going to hold out some hope that they can still get a better backup PG when they deal Haywood's contract. I'm also assuming that Shumpert comes back as well, but especially if J.R. Smith is gone they'll need another SG/SF coming off the bench. Regardless, this roster is shaping up to be beastly. The front court alone is loaded.

No interest in Mo Williams, either.

He's been impressive. In fact this rotation overall has been fun to watch this year.

I'm okay with Mills and Diaw, but I think if it's either that or Reddick, I'd go with the latter.

I'm a big fan of Wesley Matthews, but Reddick is still shooting lights out from beyond the arc and that would fit in well with what we need. P Also, new reports today are that Love does want to stay in Cleveland, at least for the upcoming year.

My point is that the Cavaliers need to upgrade their overall rotation and that even with a few injuries they should not be planning on counting on big contributions from Dellavadova. Tyus Jones would have been an upgrade, but if you want to argue that they can probably do better than that, I'd agree.

A "proven commodity" with a career 9.6 PER? I won't speak to Tyus Jones specifically, but recent history has shown that it's quite possible to find someone who can play at least at the level that Delly has over his short career. At this point it would almost be worth the bust gamble to see if you can find someone that can boom at #24. And in the short term, considering what the #24 pick has made in recent years, it wouldn't cost all that much more than Delly does. How does PER measure diving on the floor for loose balls and being a gnat to the point of getting key opposing players kicked out of the game? Ah yes, the old hustle argument. Anderson Varejao has a career PER of 15.8, so it's definitely possible to hustle/be an annoyance to the other team and also put up numbers as a consistent rotation player. I get what he brings to the table, but that alone is not enough for the Cavs to justify paying him more money and/or anointing him backup PG.

A "proven commodity" with a career 9.6 PER? I won't speak to Tyus Jones specifically, but recent history has shown that it's quite possible to find someone who can play at least at the level that Delly has over his short career. At this point it would almost be worth the bust gamble to see if you can find someone that can boom at #24. And in the short term, considering what the #24 pick has made in recent years, it wouldn't cost all that much more than Delly does.