Clevelander17

I think it has more to do with the fact that 2010 was a big year for the 'Pubs nationally and he rode that wave. A monkey could have won a statewide election in Ohio in 2010 if he had an "®" after his name.

:clap:

KJP, how many elementary schools did Mayfield City Schools have at its peak? Also I'm surprised no one mentioned the Flats? I only have vague memories of doing some of the more kid-friendly things there as a youth, but it's still a really cool piece of Cleveland lore that in a lot of ways I still wish was around.

Not mine, but great images of big parts of my youth:

I don't think I ever said that, either, or if I did, I tried to correct myself. This problem--one of perception, but also to some degree based in reality--may not be the biggest problem, but I do think it is a big problem. The RTA incident is only going to reinforce that perception in the minds of many folks. Trust me, I have been. 8-) It's a problem that has played a big part in all but ruining many of this and other regions' public services and institutions. That's my own conclusion, based partly on what you said, and partly on personal experience. I've never rode the bus on the west side, but it seems like it may be a world of difference from the experience one might have on the east side. And of course this incident happened on the east side.

Ooh, that reminds me, the original Silver Grille and that shop inside of Tower City where for Christmas they let kids go in and buy gifts for their parents (I think Mr. Jingeling had something to do with this, too). Incidentally I believe all of this space is still around, it's just used much differently than it was back then.

Special teams has been mostly atrocious, too, with them having punts blocked and allowing for long returns. For better or worse, things have completely flip-flopped from the Tressel years.

I don't think the "Ghetto culture" as you call it is the main problem. People can be crazy. Whether driving, walking, riding a bike or a train or bus. If ppl want to avoid the craziness that can exist in the World at times then they should just stay home. We have to be able to admit there's a problem before we can solve the problem. And in regards to KJP's post about, maybe it's only an eastside bus issue.

Wow, great topic, I'll have to agree with some of the things already mentioned: -Sea World: I worked here the final year it was a standalone park. -Geauga Lake: Spent many a great summer day here with friends. -Municipal Stadium: Oddly enough I only saw Indians' games here, but that was the first sports team I learned to love. -Cedar Center North: The old movie theater, the coin shop (which had baseball cards), the old video store, etc., etc. And for some of my originals: -May's on the Heights: Got all of my back-to-school clothing here. It's now the location of Target and the failed University Square venture. -The JCC in Cleveland Heights: I went here after school for a few years during elementary school years. I believe this is now the location of the Coral townhouse development. -Greenbrier Ice Rink (Parma Heights) and Oberlin College Ice Rink: I played hockey games at these rinks growing up and both are now gone. This is a great topic, when I'm out and about later today I'll surely think of some other things.

I totally disagree. If you make public transportation convenient, it will draw the middle class and above in this region. I have not rode public transportation regularly for years due to my current job but in the 80's and 90's I rode it 90% of the time to commute and to attend events downtown due to where I lived (Shaker Hts. and University Hts.). At that time, on the Shaker Rapid 50-60% of the patrons were high wage earners, their kids and to a lesser extent their wives (not to be sexist, some of the high wager earners were the wives). Many were colleagues of mine who earned six figure salaries (a lot at the time). I would say this is a far estimate (50-60%)even though the rapid went through some of the poorest neighborhoods in Cleveland so it also attracted lower income riders. Some of the riders ended up going as far as Chagrin Falls on the number 5 including me for a time. The Shaker Rapid is unusual in Cleveland but again it proves that if it is convenient the upper class will take public transportation even in Cleveland There's something about the train that's different. I won't try to put my finger on why, but the middle- and upper-classes do seem to be more comfortable riding the rails than buses. Heck I'll even ride the train a few times a year. ;)

I've never seen a road rage incident end in violence. I'm sure it happens, maybe it's even on YouTube somewhere, I've just never seen it. In regards to the numbers, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I just want to see percentage ridership over the past decade and a half. The raw numbers are not enough to convince me at this point. My comments are not supposed to be an indictment of public transportation, a service that I fully support. It's a knock against the ghetto culture that plays a huge role in dragging this region down in almost all aspects of society. Admittedly I'll shift the goalposts here a bit, but even if I accept that ridership has grown in recent years, I think it could be even higher and an even more attractive option if the ghetto culture that uses the service extensively were non-existent. I don't know if there's any more that RTA could be doing, but maybe they need more a zero tolerance protocol for the type of behavior that lead to this event. The bus driver certainly didn't respond as he should have, but there's no reason why he or any other RTA employee should have to put up with that kind of nonsense.

Two things: 1) The population has grown by over 30 million people since 2000, so looking at an increase in ridership numbers needs some context (like a percentage of population using public transport). 2) Ignoring that first point, one year does not a trend make. If you want me to clarify my comment, I will (because I respect your work on this issue and where you're coming from here): Numbers aside, incidents like the Mortal Kombat moment on the bus are exactly why public transportation will never be a legitimate day-to-day option for many people, particularly those in this region who are middle-class and above.

I agree that MLB's postseason format is terrible, but I do take pleasure in seeing Reds fans so angry about my second favorite team, the Cardinals, working their way towards another title. :) I say eliminate divisions and interleague play and go back to the format where the team with the best regular season record from each league goes on to the World Series (which would now become a best-of-15 game series). Do this and there will be little doubt that the team that comes out on top is truly worthy of wearing the crown of "World Champions."

Co-sign. And fair or unfair, this type incident is a big part of why public transportation has lost popularity. Just one more thing on the long list of areas of society that pervasive ghetto culture has ruined for everyone else. Very sad.

This is a good point. I think it's why every once in a while some jerk starts a Cleveland sucession (i.e. State of Erie) discussion. ;) But all joking aside, too much of the decision-making process for Cleveland is occurring in Columbus, far from the realities on the ground. I'm not a particular fan of the way Jackson and his predecessors have run this town, but at least they really know what's going on here. Perhaps the state needs to increase autonomy and the power of the purse for counties with over 500,000 residents (or some other semi-arbitrary number).

The subjective factors are the ones I take issue with because I see these as the ones creating that 37 spot difference and being at least partially influenced by the cult movement of some urbanists to label Pittsburgh as a huge success story. It seems like a positive feedback cycle, one that may not be entirely supported by objective data, as Jeff pointed out above. The leadership here is pretty bad, but economically we're doing okay and we have a nice list of assets (which is still growing) that is competitive with anything you'll find in any similar-size metro area.

Yeah, I was talking about the more rural areas (which in fairness may be characterized more as Reagan Democrat then purely conservative).

So, out of curiosity, what is the typical time frame to take a piece of land like Acacia and get it up and running as a park? What kind of features might we get at this location besides the typical trails and athletic fields?

I haven't heard much about his Judaism. I suspect that he's downplayed it at times because, fair or unfair, I think in certain deep red, downstate parts of the state that still wouldn't sit well with some folks.

Not sure what data you mean, and I suggest a visit soon. Check out the recent photo thread. People who uphold Pittsburgh as a model are doing so for reasons that are observable and verifiable. And I agree it's important to recognize gains made in Ohio, just not to the extent of false equivalency. If a comparison case really is that much better, and it's possible to for us to make similar gains with similar approaches, this seems like extremely valuable information. The answer to being sick of unfavorable comparisons is to improve. 10 years from now, the differences could be even more stark if changes are not made here. We cannot ignore our problems and we cannot ignore that some of them are not universal to Rust Belt cities. I mean, I keep wanting the Browns to move up in Power Rankings, but that's not a reasonable expectation given their record. The problem is not the columnist doing the rankings, the problem is the decisions made by the Browns front office. What data? Simple, MSA population growth (or decline). For all we hear about Pittsburgh, I'm still not sure that people are banging down the doors to relocate to the region. Cleveland obviously isn't doing that well in that category, but Cincinnati and Columbus are both doing better than the Steel City. And I have to mention this although no one wants to hear it: I don't buy into Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Denver, or Austin as models for Cleveland. There was an excellent blog post on the Urbanophile a year or two back about this issue, but the crux of it has to do with significant differences in history and demographics, that latter being a hugely divisive issue in metros like Cleveland, Detroit, and a few other Midwestern/Northern cities. I think an argument can be made that because of demographics, in a lot of ways Cleveland is viewed differently by state and regional leaders (who aren't residents of the city proper) than those cities mentioned above. I also think that residents themselves may be less charitable or sympathetic towards other residents because of the racial and economic differences. I'm certainly seeing and hearing some of this divide in discussions by residents about the upcoming CMSD levy. There may be policy divisions in these "model" cities, but I'd be shocked if they cut anywhere nearly as deeply along demographic divides as you'll find in this region. Just my opinion, though, but this is only a small sliver of the unique challenge that Cleveland faces that are different from challenges faced by those cities.

I assumed there was a Jewish connection there, too, but I didn't want to say anything about it for certain. I don't think he's made much headway in Shaker Heights or Cleveland Heights, both of which have large Jewish populations. The Orthodox community near Green Road in University Heights also seems to heavily support Mandel. The interesting thing is that these areas have always been strongly Democrat in the past and probably will be in the future. Some of the biggest donors for Strickland and Fisher (Jewish connection there as well, but still) came from zip code 44122.

I'm sick of hearing all of these cop-out arguments in an attempt to trump Ohio Cities (especially from Clevelanders) over Pittsburgh. Just give Pittsburgh some credit for God's sake. None of the roads go in a logical direction? That's due to topography and I've heard many people admit that cities like Pittsburgh are much more picturesque and make for a more interesting urban environment due to site-constraints or topography. With those hills and illogical direction of roads, you also get increased density of the built environment and better preservation of green space where it naturally exists. Anyway, my basic point is that there seems to be an extreme bias/skew towards Ohio Cities (especially Cleveland, as this forum is dominated by Clevelanders) preventing you all from appreciating other nearby places. The whole hillbilly thing really irks me. I know some hillbillies that are actually incredibly smart and resourceful, especially when it comes to practical trade-skills, which I doubt the majority of your typical yuppie neighbors possess. They're laid-back, friendly people who are always welcoming and willing to lend a helping hand to their neighbors because in a true hillbilly community--economically distressed and what-have-you, you really have to be co-dependent and work together. That's coming from my personal experience. Another thing I don't understand is why I hear statements about Cleveland being akin to New England, which to me has connotations of being some kind of blue-blood playground or something but then again, it's supposedly a city that takes pride in its blue-collar roots. I suppose it just depends on what you need to argue for on any given day to trump your city over the next. :-o I haven't been to Pittsburgh since 1992 (or somewhere around then, I'm not keeping track because I don't care), but I'm sure it's a wonderful city. I just think that most people are just sick of hearing about how much better it is than Ohio's major cities because quite frankly the data does not really support the argument. There are a lot of anecdotes about how Pittsburgh has turned things around, but the same can be said about the 3Cs, too. The difference is that Pittsburgh has achieved some sort of an urban cult status that has led some outsiders to assume that it's a model for other Great Lakes/Rust Belt cities. Whether or not that's really the case is up for debate, but I think we just want some fair recognition for what's going on in our towns.

I've seen a ton of Mandel signs in Beachwood. I mean from what I've seen, Mandel signs outnumber Brown signs in Beachwood like two or three to one, which is an anomaly for certain in the eastern suburbs. It's also not surprising because he's from there.

I think you've got that backwards. The solid, stable resident population in Lakewood is the driving force behind the "better" schools. In reality a lot of it also comes down to perception. There are certain schools in CMSD (actually a number of them) where students can get an education equal to or superior to anything they would get in Lakewood. The problem is that the district as a whole has a bad reputation for a lot of reasons (not the least of which is the fact that so many troubled/challenging students are enrolled). I wonder what the public school system in Pittsburgh is like?

Anyone ever watch "How The States Got Their Shapes"? There is a distinct difference between rednecks and hillbillies, and it relates to geography. The former work on farms (hence their necks are red from the sun), while the latter live in the hills and mountains.