Clevelander17

Not really sure about that one. And where would they be going, anyways? The airport? South Park Mall? IX Center? Another interesting data point will be to see when and in which directions this highway is at its busiest.

And I've said numerous times, there is a lot of applicable research that suggests that forcing that tax burden on existing residents assuming it will actually lead to more businesses and jobs in the central core is debatable policy. I won't rehash the same discussion, but if people and businesses have access to the same resources (all other things considered) but a chance to pay less in taxes, unless they're extremely altruistic they're going to go where they'll keep most of their own money. Again, just playing with the numbers, it appears that even with these visitors it's still almost certainly a net loss (an extreme one at that, even, in most cases) on a per ride basis when non-residents ride. In terms of actual job creation, that's up for debate, and a far more complicated economic analysis. Incidentally, that demand does exist a few days per year. And those are the days that I've suggested fares be increased with a variety of goals in mind. :clap:

FWIW, the Warriors will now have four players on Team USA in Rio. These guys have played a lot of hoops in 2016.

And that alone isn't even my prime reason for having reservations, it's his injury history.

First of all, we need to define what constitutes an "outer-ring" suburb. Second of all, have any studies been conducted on from where traffic will originate? I'd be shocked if this thing were being heavily used by residents of core neighborhoods/suburbs, but I hate the idea of this project to begin with so maybe I'm wrong.

None of this is the point and never has been in this discussion and I'm sorry I followed that red herring you threw, though I felt the need to respond to your ad hominem line of discussion. I would correct your nonsense further, but rules are rules. The point is, and how this directly relates to RTA, that regardless of the actual community I live in, as a Cuyahoga County resident, I logically do most of my shopping in this county, so a portion of what I pay on over 95% of what I buy goes to support GCRTA, unlike people living in neighboring counties (many of whom have intentionally fled Cuyahoga County to in part to specifically avoid such extra taxes). Therefore it is not at all unreasonable for me and other residents to suggest that a pay structure for residents vs. non-residents might be further explored.

I just don't see him being a good fit here, either. I'd rather they keep the roster as intact as possible and try to find a few other solid role players to fill it out. I don't want to see them fundamentally change the nature of a team that won the title because Golden State made a big move that I believe may or may not even ultimately work for them. I've heard David West's name floated as a possibility if he decides to play next year. Not sure how that contract would fit, either, but I'd prefer matching his skill-set to the Cavs roster than what Wade would bring.

Because this community is where I was raised and where I've chosen to remain. It continues to meet just about all of my needs for a community. Obviously there is a reason, that was your original claim and I didn't dispute that. I've been asking you to identify that reason, which you have yet to do.

I live in, and have always lived in, one of the densest parts of the county and pay taxes to GCRTA. I'll throw whatever rocks I want to throw at whomever I choose, particularly when they're not willing to take part in funding amenities they want to use. By the way, you never did elaborate on the "good reasons" for people abandoning the urban core. I wonder why.

Well now the Indians need to get back on track. Big series with 2nd place Detroit coming in only 5.5 games behind. The Tribe has absolutely owned Detroit this year and they've gotta keep that going with Salazar taking the bump tonight. Tigers are on a six game winning streak.

And I guess they're probably only going to get him if GSW lands Durant. But then GSW is stuck paying its 5th or 6th best player a max deal.

So Dallas just offered Harrison Barnes a max deal. Wow...wonder if GS will match?

That's robbery.

I think you needed a Pepsi can to get that price, right? My buddies and I would buy those tickets and spend the entire game at the Batter's Eye in centerfield. Didn't once go to our actual seats.

I don't like insular attitudes. Some of us didn't run. Not all people left because they hated Cleveland. Some did it for work and some (like myself) had personal issues to deal with. Anyway, this debate has nothing to do with RTA. It has to do with personal planning of a major event. No amount of a fare increase is going to be enough to chase people away from a once in half-century victory parade so you can get up at 8AM and plan to be downtown by 11AM using the Rapid. I'm in total agreement of dropping the subject. FYI, I wasn't saying that anyone here ran, I was responding to PHS who was implying that I ran. This debate has everything to do with RTA and how it could be funded in a fairer way that actually might make sense. In terms fare increases not chasing people away, if that's true that they would had the same amount of riders with a slightly higher fare, they would have had a few hundred thousand dollars more to at least possibly help service move more quickly and smoothly on that one day (and other busy days). You arguing that a 3 hour wait is reasonable is unreasonable and suggesting that it is my fault is ridiculous, but it's not really the discussion I care to have at the moment.

How could I possibly have abandoned a place I never actually lived? Amazing logic. And most of these people hop on the Rapid at one of the outermost terminals and ride it straight downtown. Few, if any, are spending $2000 per visit per capita, though, so again, they're not paying enough to cover the remaining portion of the cost of their trip. So again, a little simple mathematical analysis shows that the vast majority of Cuyahoga County residents (except for maybe the small percentage that own businesses downtown) are not seeing any kind of a net financial benefit from subsidizing this method of transportation for non-residents. You keep using the word penalty but I'm beginning to believe that you don't understand what it means when you use it in that context. Why would anyone choose to reside in Cuyahoga County when they can live in a border suburb and receive almost all of the benefits of Cuyahoga County residents without paying many of the additional taxes? Again, you're accepting a status quo that goes against what claim to be a goal. Forget about all of these mysterious other forces that you seem to think justify people moving out of the county, even if all things were equal, it's cheaper with the current RTA funding structure to choose Avon Lake instead of Bay Village or Macedonia instead of Brecksville.

Hey maybe they'll even get more than one All-Star this year?!

I don't really disagree with anything in your post except one minor point and one major point: Minor point: I've always lived in the suburbs, in fact, I've lived in the same inner-ring community my entire life, so I haven't run anywhere. Major point: I have no idea what you're talking about regarding "social forces" unless your referencing another conversation. But in terms of making the city and county more attractive, having a loophole where people can live in parts of this region and yet pay much less for services that they use is going to lead at least some of those people and businesses to move to the place where they can take advantage of that situation. For many people/business, if the choice comes down to Strongsville vs. Brunswick, Solon vs. Twinsburg, or Willoughby vs. Mayfield, this region has policies in place that actually incentivize these people to choose the community that is not in Cuyahoga County! So while the RTA discussion may be a relatively minor issue, it's far from the only situation where non-residents benefit from services being significantly subsidized by Cuyahoga County residents. If you want to attract more people to the city and county, eliminating or finding ways to close these loopholes is extremely important.

I'm really glad that public transportation supporters have no problem with those that have abandoned the central urban area get a free pass. RTA probably deserves its lack of funding if it really isn't willing to explore alternative options to pass costs along to other users. But nah, I won't try that hard to change things, because it's low on my list of priorities. I'll just continue to use the system a half dozen times a year and be more aware next time RTA funding issues arise, including making sure that others have all of the facts about the current funding situation that screws county residents.

Did you look at the details of my suggestion? It really wouldn't be all that expensive, I think it would just require a few tweaks in programming on the website and at fare boxes. Probably wouldn't cost more than the salaries for the apparent four member social media team that GCRTA employs: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/06/rta_social_media_guru_gets_an.html

Of course it's perfectly viable. It's not about completely relieving our sales tax burden, it's about at least making non-residents pay more of their "fare" share on the limited, usually busy occasions they choose to use the system. And the one-time cash infusions can help service run more smoothly on those busy days. And it's pure spin to say that people not living in Cuyahoga County are the ones paying a "penalty fee" with my non-resident fare plan, because at $5 per round-trip pass, they're coming nowhere near covering the full cost of their trip. Unless that price was increased to more than $25, there is no "penalty." But hey, with our county sales tax which applies to everyone, non-residents only need to spend $2000 while in town to make up the difference to more fully cover their trip! If anything, it's Cuyahoga County residents who pay the penalty for having to fund the system at a base level and then pay the exact same fare as non-residents. Again, wouldn't normally be a problem in my opinion except on busy days when we're getting bumped.

Start with an automatic across-the-board rate hike of a few bucks on days when usage is projected to be the highest. Then, people that don't want to pay the one-day higher fare either buy a fare card IN PERSON the day before or buy a fare card online using a credit/debit card with a valid Cuyahoga County home address. Obviously non-residents could come in and take advantage of the in person discount the day before, but that would require them to make a long drive for minimal savings. I'm sure there are imperfections in the above plan, but it's just one idea to help balance the burden off of Cuyahoga County residents.

I'm sure there are other solutions for making it work, even if the only one you can think of means that the whole idea of actually making non-resident users share more in the burden is somehow "ridiculous." You can't in one breath complain that the county needs to expand its tax base while in another support a policy that clearly puts a larger share of the burden on existing residents who lose out on the benefit of the system on days when many of us would most like to use it.

Fares cover roughly 20% of the costs, so when non-residents ride, they're not paying true costs. I have no problem with this in general, except on a day when I want to use the system and my wait is insane because thousands of people from other counties want convenience that the other 364 days of the year they have no interest in supporting and in same cases actively fight. I understand, so in reality it would be a fare increase on non-residents, while resident fares remain the same. Raise it a few bucks, especially on very busy days. Find the equilibrium price so that they can either make lines more reasonable for residents or possibly even make some additional revenue to increase service.

They're not interlopers, but they also shouldn't bump taxpaying residents. Do you see any problem with my solution for an alternate pricing structure on really busy days? Or do you think this current free riding (get it?) situation is okay? Is the 1% RTA sales tax applicable to only county residents? Are non-county residents exempt from paying this tax? The number of taxpayers paying any taxes in Cuyahoga County is decreasing. The county and city needs to increase its tax base by attracting residents, jobs, visitors, tourists etc. Of course non-residents still must pay those taxes when they shop in Cuyahoga County. But again, I'm sure if we had access to the numbers, the vast majority of the revenue from that tax comes from Cuyahoga County residents. It would be shocking if that were not the case. As long as taxes are higher here in Cuyahoga County, as long as residents are the ones footing the bill for things like public transit, parks, stadiums (!), that everyone in the region has equal access to, incentives exist for people to move outside of the county. Here's a localized example: I live in a city that has no ice rink. The neighboring suburb has a rink that their residents have paid taxes towards building and maintaining. If I want to go skating there, they will let me, but I must pay a non-resident fee which is greater than what residents pay. There's absolutely no reason why services such as public transit couldn't follow a similar pricing structure. Why would anyone want to live in Cuyahoga County to pay higher taxes and be charged an additional fee (which is the same as non-residents) for the services we're already funding? In terms of attracting visitors, if the RTA charged more for non-residents, especially on its busiest days, you wouldn't really be scaring anyone away.