Clevelander17

Okay, I guess. Don't like the protections on the pick, though. Oh well, perhaps it could be used to put together a package trade later on down the line. Next year's draft should be pretty deep, too. As for the Hickson for Stoudemire discussion, ugh...

I agree with that, but again, as I stated earlier, it's not really relevant. What's relevant is that the behavior, no matter who's engaging in it, has to stop. It's not acceptable. The problem is that there may be strong correlations between the behavior and race, which means that when efforts are made to curb the behavior, some people get angry or offended because they feel like they're being targeted for reasons beyond their improper behavior, which simply isn't the case.

It doesn't even matter whether or not most of these kids were from the Heights. Knowing the area, I also realize that it's mathematically impossible that all or even most were from CH. Though at least some of them were, but what's important and sad is that CH, and many of the events that the city and schools put on, have now become a magnet for large groups of kids from other cities who have been taught that this type of behavior is acceptable. Whether or not these kids are all from CH, it matters not, because CH is now seen as one of the top places to go "wildin' out." And yes, I do believe some of that is directly due to decisions and a lax attitude of both CH citizens and government. Hopefully this is the beginning of big changes.

What are you even talking about anymore? The logic behind the argument I believe you are trying to make is faulty. These groups of kids are out of control and for most of them, the way they were raised is a big part of the problem. No amount of spin or semantics arguing changes that reality.

How many times do I have to tell you that I was there? Anyways, if this is how these kids behave when they're not being supervised, then yes, these kids should not be allowed to go out unsupervised. And if their parents were nearby and "supervising" this type of behavior, then that may even make it worse. You dont you stated it was anarchy! Why haven't you answered my previous question? It was anarchy compared to what one would normally expect to see at a street fair in a nice suburb. I did answer your question.

How many times do I have to tell you that I was there? Anyways, if this is how these kids behave when they're not being supervised, then yes, these kids should not be allowed to go out unsupervised. And if their parents were nearby and "supervising" this type of behavior, then that may even make it worse.

You're right, it's not unique to Cleveland Heights. We see it all the time in East Cleveland, Euclid, Maple Heights, over large chunks of Cleveland proper, etc. That's besides the point and although it's not a direct excuse, it's a deflection. We're talking about Cleveland Heights and how to solve this city's problems. What's become acceptable in other nearby cities should not be acceptable in CH. I'm going to ask this right out. Are you in any way, directly or indirectly, saying that minorities are the problem in Cleveland Heights? Do you feel that they are the reason, you believe, CH is in decline? Absolutely not. However there is a preponderance of a very negative and destructive culture that has become acceptable in many minority communities that has been for the past few decades becoming more and more established in Cleveland Heights. This indeed is ruining the schools and the city. The fact that they are minorities is coincidental. If this behavior was closely-associated with any race, it would still be unacceptable.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh come on TBideon, you took the bait. As Hts121 pointed out, there is little that can be done by the community, by law, in the face of the overwhelming reality of the situation. So the only real solution is to punish everybody or punish nobody. For a long time, CH went the punish nobody route. Now they're trying the punish everybody route. But at the end of the day, if things are going to improve and get to a place where we all (allegedly) want things to be, there are going to have to be cultural changes in the home life of these kids.

You saw "some" fights? Anarchy? REALLY?! Anarchy? Again, you saw a fight, but doesn't not tell you what type of family each individual comes from? That's like assuming someones financial status based on how they are dressed one day. Don't insult my intelligence with that passive-aggressive accusatory BS! Who, perchance are you referring to as those that "stand by"? The fact that these kids were out there, unsupervised, behaving in such a manner is a good indication of their family background. What more are you asking for. Were you even there? Or are you once again trying to defend the indefensible without really having a true understanding of the situation?

You're right, it's not unique to Cleveland Heights. We see it all the time in East Cleveland, Euclid, Maple Heights, over large chunks of Cleveland proper, etc. That's besides the point and although it's not a direct excuse, it's a deflection. We're talking about Cleveland Heights and how to solve this city's problems. What's become acceptable in other nearby cities should not be acceptable in CH.

Hmm, this should make Clevelander17 happy....? Not really, no. It's a sad commentary on society that so many parents have let their kids run wild that society has to take such drastic steps. It should help a bit in the short term, but the damage has been done in the past 15-20 years and Cleveland Heights will likely never be what it used to be. Oh Please. Like you were an angel! I'm not being an apologist and saying what these kids did was right, but you and a few others, think we should live in a utopia and everything should work a certain way. How do you know these kids are from bad families? How do you know the kids involved were not protecting themselves from the aggressors? Where you there and know both sides of the story? I was there. I saw some of the fights. I saw mobs of kids rushing across Mayfield Road from altercation to altercation trying to see what was going on, not caring about blocking traffic or anything else. It was anarchy. You're right, it's wrong of me to assume that these kids came from bad families. I mean, this type of behavior on a Sunday evening by hundreds of kids is perfectly normal. :clap: Good communities are being ruined while otherwise level-headed people stand by and make excuses for this nonsense.

Sure, I have my issues with today's youth in general, and I understand how each generation thinks the one that follows theirs is out of control. But let me be clear, there is something else going on, something else that has happened to the Heights area in the past few decades, that transcends age. I think it's more than just an incorrect perception, but even if it were that simple, it's something that scares some potential visitors from our business districts and something that deters many potential home buyers from even considering the area.

Yeah I thought of the Grog Shop's situation, too. I'm not talking about the recent success of the business districts. I'm sure they're doing as well as they have in decades. I'm talking about the type of culture in which these types problems arise that has pervaded Cleveland Heights well beyond the prime retail areas. Social media is a bit of a red herring, though it certainly has made things much worse. I suspect you'll probably disagree (also part of the problem in my opinion), and that's fine, but I won't push this line of argumentation much further because I know where it ends up.

Hmm, this should make Clevelander17 happy....? Not really, no. It's a sad commentary on society that so many parents have let their kids run wild that society has to take such drastic steps. It should help a bit in the short term, but the damage has been done in the past 15-20 years and Cleveland Heights will likely never be what it used to be.

He's having a pretty abysmal year. Today's line, while nice, is an anomaly. Now by no means am I advocating that he should be released or sent down, but let's be serious here for a moment, he does not need to be playing every day.

Signs outside of Myxx now indicate a July opening! :)

Kudos to the mayor. http://blog.cleveland.com/sunpress/2011/06/fights_force_heights_to_take_b.html

Joseph Arthur is great. So is The Head and The Heart and The Civil Wars.

Big night for the Chisel.

Joking aside, as I read these lists, there really is a lot of good stuff on Mayfield Road.

He'll be batting 7th and playing 3B tonight. I like the move, even though Lonnie's had a bit of a down year thus far in Capital City. Oh well, let's see what the kid can do. Next up should be Carrera (for Kearns) and soon to follow should be Head and/or Kipnis. Basically this team needs to give some of their young OFs a chance, too!

Everett has been cut and Chisenhall has been called up.

See, I don't think that extra security or police is the right solution. I think that prevention is. How do you do that? Well, I laid out a few ideas earlier that will inconvenience everyone attending. Sad that this is even necessary simply because there are so many punks that were raised by parents who didn't teach them how to behave like civilized human beings. But in my opinion, if this fair is to continue, it's what has to happen.

I saw the same thing that JJ40 saw, both along Mayfield and Euclid Heights. These mobs were blocking traffic and there were a couple of smaller fistfights that I personally witnessed (involving anywhere from 5-7 kids) that the cops worked quickly to break up. As for hundreds of kids actively fighting? No, that's almost certainly untrue. But that swarming/mob-like effect pushing its way towards the action can itself be dangerous and intimidating, especially for bystanders who want nothing to do with any of it. Maybe it's just me, but I see such types of mobs of people as a problem and something that should be prevented if at all possible.

Come on now Hts, I attended CH-UH schools for over a decade and did so even after you did, so of course I'm familiar with this type of behavior. I never fought, but I occasionally got caught up in crowds that gathered round to see what was going on, so I can appreciate the excitement that is generated from an altercation. That said, the groups as I remember them were always only a few dozen kids at most, never several hundred or thousand. When you have what we had yesterday at the Coventry fair, it's a big problem and disruption to the event. Even if the violence yesterday was relatively mild, there is the potential for things to spiral much further out of control. To have these children congregate like that in such a large group is asking for trouble.