Clevelander17

His ideas made sense and he wasn't beholden to any party interests, so he always told it like it was.

I saw a guy doing surveying out there last week. If anyone watches the show Parks & Recreation, this whole Cedar Center North fiasco reminds me of the pit.

I wish people would stop going on about the income tax and instead take a larger view of the picture. I'd love to see an accurate depiction of how each city would have stacked up financially that included ALL taxes (not just income, because Florida makes up for it in other ways) and the COST OF LIVING. One thing I know for certain, James will be paying probably at least twice as much for housing in South Florida, and it would have been just as bad in Chicago, Los Angeles, or New York. If he wanted to build a 35,000 square foot palace in any of those places, it would cost him almost a year's salary. So then this is where people who are trumpeting the income tax in defense of James' decision go back to "well, he's a multi-millionaire, so it doesn't really matter to him." It may not matter to him, but it probably would/will affect his greedy posse of hangers-on that do nothing but give him bad advice.

Well, as far as I can tell, there was very little violence, which I'm very glad about. I think most of us are just too numb to riot at this point. Like someone on the radio said, when we win that first title in 46+ years, there won't be rioting, it will be more like a big lovefest.

^ yep - case in point wade doesnt play for chicago either and he is from there. he wouldnt bite chicagos pitch. That's a bad analogy. Cleveland is struggling economically and on the athletic field right now, and although the Prince is an insulated fool, he has to realize at least that. And he was drafted by the Cavaliers and was the hometown hero who on dozens of occasions professed his loyalty for the area and said he intended to win in a Cavaliers uniform, but then turned his back and said that they couldn't even pay him $30 million extra to stay here. All of that aside, he used Cleveland and the Cavaliers throughout this process and embarrassed us on national television. If you can't understand why this situation is very unique, and why there is a lot of hatred amongst most Cleveland/Northeast Ohio sports fans, then there's no explaining it to you. who are you "explaining it" to? if there is one thing i do understand its cle anger and disappointment over sports - lol! lets try to look on the bright side, the cavs 'iverson 76ers era' is over. in time the team will move on and so will we. i dk about you but im even willing to give that clownish carpetbagger of an owner gilbert, who embarrassed cle as much as lebron did if not more, a chance to put his money where his big mouth is right now via free agency and trades. no time like the present right? :wink: I agree with you about picking up the pieces and moving on, though there will be no forgetting.

In a few weeks this will all blow over. Especially if MIA has a blockbuster season. I doubt it. He spurned three of the biggest markets and his home state. People are not likely to forget his actions.

My anger today is all about the way he did it. I have a hard time believing, at this point, that this was not always the plan. One of his new teammates, Chris Bosh, made clear that he was going to leave the Raptors before free agency even started. It allowed Toronto to weigh it's options accordingly. You have to understand how the salary cap works and that would take an essay to explain, but going about it the way he did took away options we might have elected to exercise. Personally, I believe he should have divorced himself from our franchise first. He should have done it the second he made up his mind. If that was yesterday morning (I doubt it) as he claims, then he should not have put us through that spectacle last night. Players leave their team because the team sucks, or the team won't pay as much as their suitors, or they want to be close to family. Nobody has ever left a franchise as highly successful as the Cavs have been over the past several years, which was willing to pay the most money, and also was the players' home team. Unprecedented. People's opinions are going to vary. If you are a casual sports fan, it really is no big deal. However, if you are invested, emotionally, financially, whatever, in Cleveland sports, then it is a much bigger deal to you. I'm still pissed today because I fall into the latter. I'll get over it, but I have every right to be pissed at the situation and at him. This team was built around him to win (and it did win A LOT) and, now, our options are very limited no that he removed the keystone to the entire foundation. He said several years back that he was not going to "ring-chase", that he was going to build a dynasty here in Cleveland, that loyalty was most important to him. Maybe he was being genuine, but I find that unlikely putting all the clues together. Whatever Lebron turns out to be (multiple championships, whatever), he will never be what many of us hoped he was (even if that hope was the result of turning a blind eye to his true character). Great piece by Wojornowksi BTW (bashing both LBJ and Gilbert) - http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgiDRsCdAFLaMW4O67sXauA5nYcB?slug=aw-lebrondecision070910 Nailed it.

^ yep - case in point wade doesnt play for chicago either and he is from there. he wouldnt bite chicagos pitch. That's a bad analogy. Cleveland is struggling economically and on the athletic field right now, and although the Prince is an insulated fool, he has to realize at least that. And he was drafted by the Cavaliers and was the hometown hero who on dozens of occasions professed his loyalty for the area and said he intended to win in a Cavaliers uniform, but then turned his back and said that they couldn't even pay him $30 million extra to stay here. All of that aside, he used Cleveland and the Cavaliers throughout this process and embarrassed us on national television. If you can't understand why this situation is very unique, and why there is a lot of hatred amongst most Cleveland/Northeast Ohio sports fans, then there's no explaining it to you.

:roll:

You've gotta be kidding me with this post. I don't even know where to begin. If you're rooting for the Prince after this whole thing, then you're out of your mind. LeBoob hamstrung the Cavaliers. They did EVERYTHING for him to make him comfortable and surround him with as much talent as possible. Don't blame the organization, it's not their fault. The fault falls solely on the shoulders of the traitor himself. And one more thought, this couldn't have happened to a less-deserving city than Miami.

This is the main thing I'm worried about. Not that Lebron doesn't play for us or that we might not win as many games, etc. But then I think of when the Indians stopped selling out. Downtown has still been thriving (even more so since 2000). And that was a much bigger impact. The Indians brought 42,700+ people downtown 82 times a year, and that has dropped to about 15,000. So we lost almost 30,000 coming downtown 82 times a year. With the Cavs, even if we only get 5,000 a game, that would be a 15,000 loss 41 times a year, 4 times less of the impact. And maybe instead of people buying tickets, they will come downtown to enjoy other things and have more money to spend doing them. Exactly! Not to mention, these fans were supporting downtown business's in the middle of winter. A time when the business needs a shot in the arm the most. But why not come anyway. Do you need the excuse of a baskeball game to go downtown? Anyway, if you truly love the game, then you will go see the Cavs with or without Mr. James. I will, but I'm not sure all suburbanities feel the same way. And that's to say nothing of the out-of-town visitors that had come here in the past to see the Cavaliers play.

Sorry, but when the public starts financing stadiums that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, it's no longer a sideshow. Our region has a lot invested in this.

Says the guy who spends so much of his time in New York? Yeah, I see you've already moved on. But don't tell us how to feel or what to do. Business downtown WILL take a hit. Some of them are going to close because of this. The Cavaliers brought large crowds of people, many who didn't even attend the games, into downtown 41 nights a year. That's over with. The Cavs will still be around, it will be awhile before the fans come out to support them like they did over the past seven years.

Johnny Flynn is represented by LRMR. I don't think it's going to happen.

Tell that to the factory worker who lost his job five years ago but found employment downtown as a parking lot attendant who may lose his job again. Tell that to the single mom working her way through college at a bar in the Warehouse District who may lose her job. Yes, eventually our anger will subside a bit, and from there it's up to us turn things around here, but don't be so callous right now. This one hurts, and it's more than just the on-the-field aspect. Heck it's more than just the economic aspect. One of the greatest athletes in the world, a native, just spurned us on national television. There's no "getting over it."

So you already skipped out? Why am I not surprised?

Very clever. Nothing like getting excited about the status quo!

Did you notice that Detroit and Columbus made the list, but not Cleveland? I bet they factor in population of the city proper. And I'm shocked that Dallas made the list but not Austin. With the criteria they seem to use, Cleveland blows many of those cities out of the water, especially with respect to cultural, educational, and financial institutions. Of course, now that Jones Day and Ernst & Young have taken their "headquarters" plaques off their downtown buildings and shipped them to D.C. and N.Y., respectively, I suppose it's much harder for an outsider to really see what's going on in this city. And I need to set in my obligatory flame on Miami. I lived there for a year, and it was awful, awful, awful. The whole place is nothing but strip mall and traffic. I was so relieved to finally see some diverse urban character and non-crabgrass whenever I would make it back to CLE. And you can't even go outside for half the year, not even with a coat! I'm not sure what that mean, but JD HQ is Cleveland. Can we not start with "pity party"?! Well Miami heat stopped ticket sales as season tickets sales went thru the roof. I doesn't look good. Miami is/was going to sell tickets either way, after all they just re-signed Wade and landed Bosh.

S. Florida is now stagnant and not as "reveled" as before. Housing and foreclosures have hurt the region. Unemployment is sky high. Granted SF does have a reputation as being more global as there once were a huge amount of rich people from S. America living in S. Florida in their winter. From an entertainment perspective Miami is a more global city, but their main industry is tourism and they advertise fun in the sun to several European and S. American Cities and American has its S. American Hub in Miami. Tourism centers on Miami Beach, not Miami. You never see an ad about Miami showing Miami, they show Miami Beach and the coast. Exception is the skyline showing downtown. Anyway we're way off topic. You're splitting hairs. When I say "Miami," that's of course not just limited to the city limits. But of course, Miami Beach is a part of the larger city-county of Miami-Dade. That's like someone saying that Paul Newman was from Cleveland and someone else correcting them and saying that no, in fact, he was from Shaker Heights. Even if Miami's population growth is stagnant this year, the long-term trend still looks good for growth in that metropolitan area. Let me clarify something. This whole discussion about media market size started yesterday when I said that Bosh wanted to go to Miami (or Houston or Chicago) instead of Cleveland. I understand Bosh's line of thinking, even if I believe it was misguided. However for LeBron, I do believe that media market size is much less important. In fact, I think his brand will be irreparably damaged if he leaves Cleveland, especially in this manner.

This argument about market size is silly. Sure Cleveland and Miami are similar in a lot of ways, but one is growing and one is stagnant. And one has an international cache (Miami) that the other does not. I love Cleveland, but I do feel that Miami is a market upgrade (though not nearly on par with New York or Chicago). Miami is more of a "global city" than Cleveland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city#Studies

By the way, EC, your recent posts ooze of a gloating optimism about the idea of him leaving. Why?

I completely agree. Harkens back to my post about how we can be champions in so many other ways. Yes and that post smacked of an opportunist looking to draw Clevelanders away from sports, almost a sort of thumbing of the nose at the idea that many people take great interest and pride in how the teams do. Perhaps if enough people take you up on your offer, the Browns will be the only professional sports left team in town. There's nothing wrong with drawing pride from our city's sports teams. These franchises are great assets to Cleveland, and I would encourage an opposite approach--if LeBron leaves, Clevelanders need to rally around the Cavaliers and even the Indians and stop taking them for granted.

sorry but I must disagree. You dont have to be in NYC or LA to make big endorsement money this isn't the 60s Agreed. Someone must have missed the memo: The world is flat. LeBron James is already one of the most popular athletes in the world and he's never played a game for any team outside of Northeast Ohio.

Smokescreen? Creating suspense. If I've learned anything from this process, don't read too much into anything, because it's probably meaningless (if not intentionally part of a misdirection effort).

Too bad, looks like the Valley will send another party hack back to D.C.