Brutus_buckeye

And so it begins. People who have sat on derelict property for decades (in this case 2003) are coming out of the woodwork, thinking they can get rich: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1568302/845-Charlotte-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1167526,-84.528664,3a,75y,192h,95.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVuzLNBIggYDy_IBIOOfC1Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 maybe the property has sat derelict because it was unsellable

We were a fan of the Guanacaste region in COsta Rica. That is a good time to go because it is not the rainy season. There are a number of large resorts there and a lot of opportunities to do outdoor excursions off site. There are a lot of zip line, hiking, biking tours there as well as beach activities. When we went, there happened to be a large Ohio contingent there on a junket so it was neat connecting with a lot of Ohio folks.

Fairfax is another area that is popping too and I think Madisonville reaps the dividends from that too.

If my handle didn't give that away from the start.

^ Gonzalez has a record of great accomplishment. How many politicians in Ohio can say they have accomplished as great of things for the people of the state as he has. Yes, he did not lead them to a National Championship, but he was instrumental in the game of the century, which was yet another great accomplishment for the citizens of Ohio, and truly what makes Ohio a great state. Any time you have a hero vanquish ttUN, it is an accomplishment, yet he did it 4 times in his college career. Again, how many college students have a track record like that. It is the sign of a guy who can get it done. There are a lot of politicians that talk about doing things and bringing pride to their constituents. With Gonzalez you have someone who was doing it on a daily basis before he even ran for Congress. What is not to like about him.

Madisonville is the next neighborhood to pop. Look at the area, it is surrounded by Indian Hill, Mariemont, Madeira, Oakley and Hyde Park is bound to improve. Couple that with Medpace and some of the offices going there and it is bound to boom.

You would vote for a guy because he caught ball? Jesus. What, are you not a fan? Striking a dagger through the heart of TTUN with his catch in 2005 is all you need to know about a man's character. He has already done more for the state of Ohio than any representative already serving in office at this present time. When you ask your politician what have you done to improve the lives of Ohioans, he can point to something very tangible and real.

I get that, the yard work can be a hassle with the yards, albeit small ones. With the prices in the urban core being pushed so high, I figured going to a stable inner ring suburb with its own urban town center may be the next best option.

^ probably right on that. I was thinking it gives more people a reason to ride it and that can't hurt. I know myself, I don't live downtown and it would give me an excuse to park at the Banks or Ftn Square and ride it to a game. Whereas I would not ever need to or want to do that for a Reds or Bengals game.

Chicago is a different animal, it does not really fit into the Midwest model. Minneapolis does have growing ridership, but it is still models more like a Midwestern city than a larger east coast city. Philly, DC, Boston, SF it is not.

jmecklenborg[/member] if you want to make pedestrian and mass transit oriented, you need to have places to justify moving people too. The stadium will be a help to the streetcar because it gives people another destination that they would ride the streetcar for and would allow them to park farther away from the stadium. People are more likely to take it to a soccer game than football or baseball because it is easier for them to park at the Banks or in the CBD and take the Streetcar over than parking in the West End. This would be great for the streetcar. ALso, if there ever is hope of subway tunnels ever being used, this will help give another destination on the line for people to use it. I remember living in Cleveland many years ago and the only time the masses ever took the light rail was for big events like sporting events, St. Patricks day, etc. This is was mass transit is in the Midwest.

^ You have to figure, over in Europe, they typically have 40-50k stadiums, not the huge 100k models that host World CUp games. It is always better to be on the smaller end than larger end. YOu can always raise ticket prices easier to meet demand than expand only to have empty seats down the line. Look at what baseball did in the 90s. It went from 50-60k seat stadiums down to 40k seat stadiums.

People like Garry are not productive to the discussion. They try and whip people into a froth about things that are untrue or so remote that they are not even relevant because at the end of the day, it comes down to people are afraid of change. If people like him started using the their head to do more thinking instead of flapping his gums, it will be easier and quicker to get a resolution on the issue with much less contention.

I would also imagine the team making the FCC stadium available for CPS teams on certain occasions too, or granting CPS a continued revenue stream on events at the stadium.

^ without a doubt, the patient experience and even clinical experience is going to be better at Ohio Health than a for profit but the concentration of those companies in Nashville is quite impressive. It gives health care administrators and executive many options for talent down there. Ohio has great hospital systems in the non-profit sector. Mercy Health is the largest employer in the state and it essentially mimics the for-profit model but does so in a much better non-profit environment.

PBS has about 15 events a year, it is not a huge draw by most standards. BUT, you don't get The Banks without PBS or GABP. You need both of them as the catalyst to get people to see what the Banks could be. It brings people to the area to say, yes, I can see myself living down there or hanging out down there, or at least can see the vision of what would otherwise be an empty parking lot. You need the stadiums to act as a catalyst. It is similar to the Streetcar for real estate in OTR. From a transportation perspective, the Streetcar is fairly worthless, but it gets people to see OTR as a much more viable neighborhood, it is another catalyst.

Ohio Health is nice and all for Central Ohio but it is nothing compared to HCA, Quorum, CHS, Lifepoint, Sutherland Global, RegionalCare and the numerous other hospital systems all based out of Nashville.

My parents have lived there for 22 years. The street activity and massive levels of tourism (the goddamn bachelorette parties) are all a post-2010 phenomenon. The last time I went out in DT Nashville on a weekend was probably 2006. It was pretty low-key. The two areas you visited -- Hillsborough Village and 12th Ave. South, are just about the ONLY walkable areas of the city outside of the downtown. Cincinnati has literally 50+ of those sorts of areas. I mean, Benson St. in Reading blows away either! Hillborough Village has been pretty much the same thing since the 90s but 12th Ave. South is a more recent phenomenon. I don't remember anything being down there until about 2005. When I was an Uber driver I picked up a band from Nashville that was hanging out in Newport at the Crazy Fox Saloon and drove them to their gig on Main St at The Drinkery. They told me they were blown away by all of the old restaurants and bars in NKY and Cincinnati. I didn't say anything smugly to them or anything (we just talked about their music) but I could tell that they were startled that there is all this stuff in the Cincinnati area that is completely off the national radar. It really wouldn't be an exaggeration to say Nashville has 1/10th the walkability and architectural interest that Cincinnati has. Nashville has a buzz factor that creates the hype. It took 20+ years of constant branding and building to accomplish this. The one thing about Cincy and its German heritage is that it was never one to engage in self promotion and that helped it get passed by. I think only recently has Cincy started playing the self promotion game and it has been working

^ I consider Nashville more of a Healthcare town than automotive. Yes there is Nissan and Bridgestone, but they have about a dozen hospital systems based there. It is the home of corporate healthcare.

^ Jake, why not look to an inner suburb like Kennedy Heights or Silverton and even at a 2-4 family there. You can still get good prices in those areas with decent yields and they can cash flow well for you. Those are solid rental areas and solid working class neighborhoods. All the money is chasing things in OTR but there is a lot of value in the inner ring suburbs that were built out in the 50's

^ Agreed. The problem is that reasonable Ohio investors get pushed out by Cali investors or need to put up more money to play along. I would buy at a 7 Cap if I know I can create 30-40% revenue appreciation In the first 24-30 months.

^ Yes, and Yes. There is a lot of coastal money coming into Cincy now. It has been seen as a hot market because they can get yield here (or at least think they can) They are seeing Cap Rates in the 3% range which returns no yield. The problem is that the 3% CAP rate in Cali may lose money on a month to month basis but they get appreciation in the double digits. In Cincy, you can get a CAP in the 8-10% range but you don't get the appreciation. These investors froth at the mouth at the 6% Cap but are disappointed that they get zero appreciation and their profits are eaten up by the expense of property management on their 4 unit building.

The thing about the West End is that it already has a highway entrance and exit ramp there, there are parking garages near by because of music hall in the area, there is the streetcar in the area that can move people to and from the games, and you have a bar ecosystem and neighborhood that is already in place. It is what makes it ideal because it would require the least amount of infrastructure build out. Oakley has the neighborhood, but needs the rest of the infrastructure built out to best handle the stadium. NKY has nothing and it is pretty much building on a blank slate. That is the appeal of the West End. It has everything in place already.

Yeah, because stadiums have such a great track record of spurring other development. How many studies need to be prepared that show that stadiums do little to actually spur development for you to believe it? Look at the hotbed of activity around Paul Brown Stadium! Such a thriving part of the city, huh? Uh- look at the area before GABP and PBS. Now look at the Banks. Overall, even though it is underperforming it is still a success from the old warehouses in that area before then. I would say it has spurned economic development. LOL! Yeah, FC is choosing to put their stadium in the West End to better the community. That's totally it. You and I both know the reason they're looking at a West End stadium is because MLS told them they want stadiums in urban areas, and there's some vacant land in the WE that's proximate to OTR. If it were at all feasible, I'm sure Lindner and Berding would love to demo a couple blocks in OTR and put the stadium there. This has nothing at all to do with investing in the West End, and everything to do with putting a stadium in a core location to satisfy MLS, and in a neighborhood that doesn't have much power to fight it. And you know it. It has everything to do with investing in the West End. I am sure if they had their choice they would put it on the Riverfront or on 4th street, but the land is not available in those areas. In the West End there are some larger land parcels that can be put together for a stadium much easier than other parts of downtown. And by doing so, the entire area will benefit from it. Yes, it is a stadium, but it will benefit the whole area immensely. It will give people another reason to use the Streetcar, it will improve the critical mass of residents who live or want to live in the area and lead to additional amenities such as a drug store and restaurants. The stadium is not the end all and the sole key to development, it is a catalyst. You cant just build it, you need to develop the entire neighborhood around it by using that as an anchor to leverage investment. It is why shopping malls have anchor stores, it is why cities spend on convention centers that draw visitors short term but nor residents.

^ this a perfect example of not getting it. There is so much wrong with this thought process, I don't know where to start. Is a soccer stadium the end all? Of course not. It is a very large investment that can spur other development in the area to improve lives and outcomes for those who live in the area. The whole area rises with this. There were many decisions made decades earlier that have led to this point and finally people are willing to start to invest in the neighborhood again, for the betterment of the community. People want good schools, people want a better living environment, people want them to invest in their community, well this will serve as a catalyst. Look what Columbus has done with the arena district, look what 3CDC has done with OTR, they needed a catalyst to draw people there to give it a shot. It needed to gentrify, it needed to have a reason to bring capital to the neighborhood. It could not improve without that capital. Call it classism or elitism or what, but the fact is, you need capital from the outside to bring the neighborhood back because it is not economically strong enough as is to develop that investment on its own. To get this capital, you need investors who will be able to get a return on their investment. There really is no other way. You hear the "community leaders" and the Josh Spring's of the world complain about how these neighborhoods are neglected and that there is the continual drumbeat of segregation to keep them down, but when there are proposals to try and bring it back, they are shot down because they will force some people out of the area and also only benefit those with the capital. This is foolishness. Yes, with anything, some people will need to move, but overall, more people are able to improve their lives as the neighborhood gets better. There is more opportunity for everyone.