Brutus_buckeye

^ I think the Bengals and Browns and Reds and Tribe have a stronger case

^ This seems like a poor case to test this law. Compare with Browns or Bengals where both clubs lease the publicly owned stadium that was constructed primarily with public dolllars and the teams had very limited skin in the game. In CBUS, the city gave a ground lease for the stadium that was built privately. Not much different than an office tower in the CBD.

But wasn't the stadium built with private money and isn't it owned by Precourt?

It was interesting to today listening to some of the pundits on the radio point to the timing of the final 4 announcement occurring only hours after Cincinnati secured its stadium plan. This could have been made weeks ago or they could have waited until Dec 1 when the final bids were due. It just seems strange it was announced when it was.

why? Selfish reasons

Detroit was always #4 on the list. It is prettier to have 4 finalist than 3. Detroit is a long shot and really does not have a chance but they are better than the remaining teams.

I think they should build the stadium in the neighborhood next to Brookstone. Level the houses there and have Brookstone Village connect to it. Yes, they will have to buy out the owners but if they pay a premium, I am sure they would sell.

So Ohio can only support 1 MLS team? Hmm, not that Cleveland is in the running, but there is a wide spread between NEO and SWO. Cleveland has not signaled interest in a team, but sure If Cleveland wanted a team then they could as the population would be spread out enough between the cities. I think Cincy and Columbus could not coexist as easily

If Cincy is already a team, the Ohio market is covered and you do not need 2 teams. Better cover Ohio was not the best choice of words, but rather Ohio would be covered if there was a team in Cincy at that point.

^ What about the news today that Columbus could get in line for an expansion team if the Crew move. Any thoughts on if that hurts Cincy chances or would be a non - issue at this point, or if the olive branch to CBUS is nothing but empty rhetoric since a team in Cincy may better cover the Ohio market?

I mean, that would be a better location, so, yeah. I don't care where they go as long as we get the team.

^ Time to just suck it up and go to Newport. THis is going to be a cluster to get through whereas Newport it would sail through.

^ Don't let Jake's commentary on the East Side cloud his points. Although I do disagree with him on some issues, sometimes he let's his West Side bias shine through when he makes statements about certain East Side parts of town. That is not to take away from his overall premise, but I think his high school experience may have clouded his opinion of the East Side (the majority of them are not in fact trust fund babies)

^ but there are a lot of people who live near Elder and St. Xavier who go to the games (I know st X students come from all over but there are many neighborhood people who go to the games too) FC Cincinnati is a regional draw and would need more efficient infrastructure.

^ I was referring to the finalists - San Diego dropped out a while back.

That is patently untrue and the situation In Columbus is apples and oranges. If you think the Crew are moving because of the lack of a downtown stadium in CBUS you are delusional. This is just a smokescreen to get them to move because the owner wanted to move them to Austin the day he bought the team. He has set the bar so high in Columbus that he knows the city will never meet what he wants so he can move the team. It is called negotiating in bad faith. The difference between Cincy and CBUS is local ownership. All those families live in Cincy and will continue to live here. That makes a huge difference. What happens 25 years later, of course we cant predict that however, I have a lot more faith in the long term stability of the franchise when you have a local ownership group instead of a carpetbagger from California who does not know Columbus from Kalamazoo. jmecklenborg[/member] - The big plus Oakley has is highway frontage and a central location. No where on the West Side can you get this. If you had a good spot in Montfort Heights, I could at least see the merits in your point a little better but Oakley and Glen Crossing are not even in the same ballpark because of the transportation issue alone. I would absolutely love to see the stadium on the West End or OTR but I am not going to let the deal slip away because it does not align completely with my vision (especially since I am not the one investing $200 million)

jmecklenborg[/member] 1) Glenway Crossing is a horrible location that does not offer highway access and is not easy to access by road or walking. It is like saying that they should play in the Elder Pit (or in your case, St X high school) just because it is there. 2) Oakley is a vibrant neighborhood that has infrastructure there and the contiguous land. The largest season tix fan base lives there. There is walkability. It is not like Mapfre in Cbus which is a giant field, surrounded by slum property and highway. Oakley offers amenities for fans before and after the game. Adding this could contribute to its density. More apartments and hotels in the area will be built and more people will live there to enjoy walking to games and such. Heck, it could even be open to the public on non game days (like UC does Nippert) to allow the residents to use the stands for exercise and other activities. They could have Wi-Fi and meeting areas for local entrepreuners like CrossRoads does to encourage more business development in the area. Point being, Oakley has a bit of an infrastructure built up already to allow the stadium to build off this more. GlenCrossing or other suburban areas do not offer this. And for the record, Yes, I would prefer OTR or Newport first and foremost but I am not going to say no when you have someone willing to pay 200+ million to develop the property

If you look at the other deals out there for the other cities, their teams are not bringing anywhere near as much to the table as the Cincinnati group. People need to take a deep breath and not be stupid on this.

^ Seelbach, what a hypocrite and a clown. I wonder if some of this is just to spite Cranley. If it was being pushed by Simpson or one of the progressives, would Seelbach have been for it? Maybe, they can throw in one of his $50k public toilets and it may change his mind.

^ If you change the equation and instead of using 75 million to build a soccer stadium for a rich billionaire but rather spend that money on the same infrastructure improvement that will bring a new Fortune 500 HQ to town (no operations) with about the same number of jobs, and o' the company gets a 80% employment tax credit, people would jump on this in a heartbeat, but to me, the stadium deal actually would make more sense, fiscally. People are just still too salty about PBS that they would rather cut off their nose to spite their face.

^ I think this project is bigger than a downtown apartment building. THis is something that could help create demand for 5 apartment towers in the future.

^ SOme of this stuff you would need special consideration from Congress to implement. The problem is that when you have a franchise model, the league is limited in certain areas like this as far as relocation. AL Davis showed this in the 80s when he moved the Raiders from Oakland to LA. The league tried to block him at that time but the court found that the nature of the franchise model prevented some of the steps they took in that area. I don't think you can overly restrict a team from leaving a market so long as there is an independent franchise model in place. THe key is to ensure there is strong local ownership to provide that stability to the local market. However, even then that may not be enough (See Stan Kroenke, Art Modell)

^ This does seem like frustration with MLS over the Columbus deal. The biggest difference between Cincinnati and Columbus is that Columbus has always been on shakier ground with out of town ownership. Columbus is not losing their team because of a poor stadium or lack of fan support, it is losing the team because the owner purchased it 4 years ago with a plan to move it. IF it was not Columbus it would have been some other team. The owner had no ties to Columbus and never was fond of the city to begin with. In Cincinnati you have 2 of the top 3 families in town investing in the team. completely different situation from the beginning.

^ that is a naïve statement. Most cities take infrastructure improvements as on them. Public roads and streets and sewers is the county and city responsibility anyway. THis deal is a layup compared to other plans across the country. http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/fc-cincinnati-wants-75m-heres-what-other-cities-will-kick-in-for-new-mls-stadiums

^ So the county will pay for a garage based on what size they feel is appropriate. It sounds like down the line if they need more parking, the county would pay for another garage. some of the $15-$20 million in improvements is semantics, it seems. IF the price tag to widen streets and such comes in at $30 million, then that is what the county will pay. THe numbers flying around don't matter much, ultimately the county will pay for the improvements which is what is important