Brutus_buckeye

i posed that question a few months ago when this original order came down. There was nothing that the Court could do in order to force compliance under the standard that would satisfy the majority. They are complying with the Court order by redrawing the maps each time but there is nothing to force it in such a way that would at least satisfy O'Connor, let alone the other 3 Dem justices. So we are left with stalemate. In the long run, does it damage the GOP brand in Ohio. Probably doubtful.

We certainly dont want to imitate Pittsburgh, lol Actually, per @jwulsin I cant see how a cantilever would be of much benefit. The goal is to enlarge the exhibition space and that is on ground level.

Yes, that may be true, but who says Heritage Bank would close. The current owners are likely to use continued operation as leverage until they get the price they want to sell to a developer. Yes, but the point was that they were able to continue hosting events that generated income for it to justify continued operation. It may be the case here, at least in the short term, until Nederlander is able to negotiate the price they want to sell the property. There are many considerations at play. Look at the Millennium Hotel and how hard it was for the city to purchase that property despite trying for over a decade and how in other cities many leaders had similar experiences trying to negotiate with that company. Point being, there are many reasons for why a property owner will sell a property, profit and price appreciation being the major driver but not the sole reason. Also, re Nederlander running a new arena, that very well may be the case, but until something is decided, I am not considering that in the equation.

I dont know if that $350 million is still the price tag, but that seems like a bargain considering the going rate for these arenas.

Cyclones would likely stay at the Heritage Bank Arena if a new one is built somewhere else. Cheaper to operate out of the old arena. Certainly big name concerts like Billy Joel, Rolling Stones, Taylor Swift, etc. would play in the new state of the art arena, but older groups who may not completely sell out arena tours or play in smaller markets may decide to save the cost and play at the older arena. Also, consider the fact that the owners of the arena is Nederlander Group which is the largest concert promoter in the country. Certainly, given the option they will steer some of their shows to the older arena that they own. Not considering concerts, look at Cinti Gardens as a perfect example. After the Royals left and the Heritage Bank was built in the 70s, the Gardens still hosted boxing, Shrine Circus, and other minor league events. There are certainly events to keep it operational, especially given the fact the Cyclones are staying. Yes, the Gardens was not in a prime location, but that property would have been prime industrial redevelopment long before it was demolished. The family that owned it just did not want to sell it. It depends what the mortgage is on the property and if the owner of the arena gets its price on the land. The city/county/Port, etc are going to certainly put pressure to do something with that land and space, but it is certainly not as simple as waving your hand and demolishing the old arena and building apartments and hotels there.

Not exactly, They were taking it to the metal. There was a new level that was going to be added and the entire seating bowl was going to be re-configured.

I would not necessarily bet on such certainties. The arena is privately owned so it can continue for as long as the owner so choose. The Robinson family continued use in the Gardens for many years after its prime.I would not necessarily bet on such certainties. The arena is privately owned so it can continue for as long as the owner so choose. The Robinson family continued use in the Gardens for many years after its prime.

That is actually the most practical idea even if it is not the most liked idea. If you build a new arena on another site, you still have to deal with the capacity and competition from Heritage Bank Arena. If you renovated into something modern, you’re not adding capacity to the market. if the goal is to maximize events for the arena, you don’t want to compete with heritage bank, because they can offer a product at a bargain basement price. Yes, it may not have the amenities a new arena war, but some concert promoter‘s Would be inclined to save a little bit of money on facility rental for the right opportunityWould be inclined to save a little bit of money on facility rental for the right opportunity

Yes and no. I think you definitely see more teams with skin in the game then occurred during the 90s. However, it depends on the market. In a market like LA, NYC, Houston, Dallas, DC, etc. those cities can put a lot more pressure on teams to put up more money because the teams and leagues have a strong desire to be competing in those top markets. They need those eyeballs, ad dollars and corporate sponsorships that thrive in those markets. Also, you have other opportunities (SOFI for example) to generate additional revenue streams through large corporate events (SuperBowl, Draft, Combine, etc) that smaller markets will not have in the future. Markets like Buffalo, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Jacksonville etc. are not prime NFL destinations and they are competing with markets like San Antonio, Portland, Austin, Toronto, San Diego, etc. who may decide it is worth the public capital and investment to spend on an NFL stadium to lure a team to town. it worked for Indy, Baltimore and St. Louis in the past. Did not work so well for San Antonio or even Tampa Bay (baseball). However, if history repeats itself, there will be smaller/mid market cities that continue to play that game.

Great American Insurance has other lines besides Life Insurance. This was only their life insurance division that was sold.

Renovation of PBS will likely cost more than $400 million. All the new video boards and technology upgrades drive this cost. Also, it is going to be the labor cost that really determines the price, and the labor costs are much higher now than they were 25 years ago. Now Buffalo is in a unique position (similar to SoFi) in that construction costs in NY and CA tend to be inflated some because higher labor and regulatory environments there driving up the cost some. My guess is that a major PBS renovation is going to be in the $500-$700 million range (which is not the end of the world). I agree with you in that the Bengals will not ask for a new stadium but major upgrades instead. There are many key differences from the 1990s to today. First and foremost, Riverfront Stadium was designed in a different era when attending games was a bit less of an event and much more utilitarian. The wide concourses that are common today were not thought of when the old stadium was designed and there were no renovations that could accommodate that. PBS already has this. Also, NFL teams realized the financial benefits of having their own stadiums and revenue streams. This was a key component to the need for PBS. That is not really at issue in this case. Also, the Bengals have been sitting on a large potential unrealized revenue stream that they have not taken advantage of yet, that being naming rights of PBS. That gives them another financial incentive to stay in PBS. A new stadium would likely use naming rights as a revenue source to finance construction. I think the Bengals ultimately would like to keep this with the team.

They did not shut the highway down. The biggest key was eliminating the exits. You used to be able to exit on Pete rose way and 3rd street. Once that was done they were able to create some temporary lanes for traffic while they worked on reclaiming land. It certainly was a complex project. if you do that to 75 you would probably need to eliminate a number of on ramps over off 6th street and 4th street

With the Old BSB being for FWW/71 traffic, they really would not need the amount of space for the lanes for on/off ramps as most of that access now moves to the KY Side, correct?

What building were they located before they were sold? Where will most of the employees be relocating from ?

Those are very good points. Personally, I do not care where it is built as long as they can build it. However, figuring out how to finance it will be a challenge, especially without a permanent major league or major college tenant. Therefore, what are realistic options to be able to finance such a venture. Given the lack of major league tenant, you would almost need it to have a significant public financing portion. With that in mind, it seems like the best locations for such a venture would be to make it somehow related to or connected to a convention facility. NKY comes to find for that reason. You do not have the footprint in Cincinnati at the facility there that can accommodate. There is the Casino site which is also an option and would allow some shared resources to finance such an arena. Personally, I do not care where it is located as long as it is built.

Arena's never look pretty. It will always be a large box in one form or another and take up a large city block. As long as it has access - You can walk to it from downtown (albeit a hike, it is walkable. There is Tank/bus service built in there already and some parking infrastructure. It has amenities. - Urban arenas are much better because there are bars and other businesses there that can compliment things before and after games. NKY offers this (suburban arenas and stadiums are awful when surrounded by an ocean of parking because there is nowhere to meet before/after the game) I will say that I think the old IRS site could be a good fit for such a project. It would accomplish a couple of goals. 1) NKY has talked about wanting to expand their convention center. An arena could be part of that project and convention bonds could be used as a financing source. 2) It is a large enough area to fit it in. 3) It would fit pretty well into the Covington and downtown fabric and offer access to many amenities in downtown Covington and Main Strauss I think Cincinnati offers a bit better infrastructure and transportation then in NKY, but given the cost to finance, it is time NKY shoulders some of the burden. The downside again to Covington is lack of a primary tenant. NKU built Heritage Bank arena and that gets a lot of regional events besides NKU athletics. It would have been nice to have them as a tenant in the arena just for booking purposes. I dont think the Cyclones would move there since they are owned by the people who own Heritage Bank arena and you figure that there would be some continued competition there and cheaper rent). So again, it makes it a difficult lift to build an arena anywhere in the urban core for that reason. You almost have to buy out the owners of Heritage Bank and mothball it as part of any arena development in order to take that space off the market.

It is sometimes easier for the sake of things to refer to Berding as FC, but you are right. I thought I saw somewhere or someone indicated there were some groups working behind the scenes on an arena proposal and indicated something about the FC people being involved or talking about doing something near TQL?

The one big thing Cleveland has that Cincinnati does not is a major tenant for their arena. The cavs make it easy to finance an arena like that. You don’t get the rents on concerts or minor league sports that you would get for a major league team or large university. yes cincy needs a new arena. The bigger question is who is going to pay the $500 million or so to build it.

The fc cincinnati ownership group

If in fact FC is driving the bus, they certainly will have a lot of say in the matter but, economically, billionaires aside, they still need to make the numbers work too. Without a major tenant it is hard. even with FC driving the bus, there is bound to be some ask from the taxpayers. Don’t know how much. It would be a good time for Kentucky to step up on this

If we are going to build a new arena, I would say that it should be built on the Covington side of the river where are the old IRS center is. Given that it appears a that public financing is going to be needed, it should not fall solely on the taxpayers of Hamilton county, let the taxpayers in Northern Kentucky do their fair share, build it on the Kentucky side

I get that, and I do not disagree with your point, and I am fully realistic that putting a roof on PBS will not likely lead to a super bowl in town (it didn’t for St. Louis which offers a better case study than indy) however, what it offers is flexibility and some additional uses. not offers flexibility because it provides a convention center space for the So baptists to have their convention while also allowing space at a domed pbs to host the car show. maybe we get a final 4 our political convention (both parties have used domes in the past). No, it will not help with concerts too much for the reasons you cite above, but it is coming From the perspective that one, we have a small convention center that needs more convention space, two, The location of the convention center is landlocked and the most preferred direction of expansion is blocked by the interstate and there are a lot of hoops to jump through before you can effectively expand that direction. Third, PBS is three blocks from the convention center and it is not unrealistic that a large convention could effectively utilize both areas and the space in between be developed as a convention type district. Fourth, it would not involve acquiring additional parcels and destroying blocks of downtown to create such expansion. Five, there could be some type of joint financing between the hotel tax and sales tax To accomplish such car which would be an easier lift then financing a state of the art arena with no tenant. I agree, this is not the ideal situation, where you have a state of the art arena state of the art convention center and state of the art stadium, but it could create some economies of scale and efficiencies that will allow us To be competitive in areas that we are not currently competitive in but the sports concerts and convention wise

I get that. it does not solve all the problems. I just think we could get a bigger bang for the buck and more efficiencies with a dome over PBS and then some enhancements at TQL to attract some more acts looking for that 20k venue space. Again, this is not ideal either and does not solve all the problems i am just looking at it from a best utilization of resources.

^ Yes, but I still say putting that money toward putting a roof/dome over Paul Brown would be a more efficient/effective use of the money and could accomplish the same goals while providing a permanent tenant. It may hurt on some indoor concerts but TQL can really step up the game on some of those concert series. It is hard to justify an arena without a permanent Major League tenant paying Major League prices. Let's steal the Blue Jackets from Columbus and then we can talk about the new arena

My guess is that Progressive is planning a big moving party with Watson showing up with his moving truck and kicking Baker our of his house. https://theathletic.com/3206116/2022/03/25/browns-sponsors-mum-on-deshaun-watson-signing-await-signals-from-team-on-what-to-say/