Brutus_buckeye

^ Holy 1980. Where did you find that concept drawing? It appears the USBank building was not part of the equation at that point.

To Hue's defense, starting Tyrod when you have a new rookie was not unprecented. That was the right decision until Mayfield was able to get comfortable with the NFL. Also remember that Cleveland did not have the O-Line in 2018 that they had in 2020. Hue had his process and I would have been interested to see how it played out if he was able to caoch the whole season. My guess is that the Browns would have been around 6-10. Does that save his job at that point, I dont know. It was not far off from where they ended up. Also worth noting that the spark and excitement that was provided after Hue was fired did not carry over into 2019 as they failed to make the playoffs. It showed Kitchens was incompetent in that process as he had the keys to a Cadillac and crashed it. Hue never had the weapons Kitchens had.

I dont disagree with you, I think if he is going to run as an independent though, he stands a much better chance to beat Dumas than any of the other more well known and better funded commissioners. His name recognition in the black community will certainly offset the D behind her name some. I know the GOP is not exciting aout having a Republican on the ballot in this race but they cant stop it unless Smitherman were to run under the Republican endorsement.

^ having a Republican on the ballot could hurt Smiterman theoretically but he does have a ton of name recognition. I could see him being able to knock off someone like Dumas as in Independent, if he were running against Driehaus or Reese, it would be a much heavier lift.

I think it is about the broadcast rights and how they choose to disseminate them. If they allow a 3rd party like the County to use them it could complicate other matters such as large Churches or other venues like arenas hosting watch parties without NFL consent and more importantly NFL Control. If the Browns were in the SB, it may not make sense to have a watch party at FirstEnergy but make much more sense to pack 20k into Rocket Mortgage, but at that point does the NFL control all the logistics?? That would be my best guess. I could imagine the NFL seeing this as a potential revenue maker for the league down the line and can see in a few years the NFL putting on watch parties in the home team stadiums that are much more than just watch parties and those events could generate an additional few million to the league with ticket sales and additional advertising.

Just one quick point. - I did not try and correct you on the Crew. I was simply asking the question of "could you argue that" which is different then "I would argue that" or "a reasonable person would argue" - As an outsider, I was merely asking you if it could be argued that 2020 was not the result of Haslam but the prior ownership and you clarified that point. There was no intent to debate you regarding Crew on field matters. Merely was commenting on the Haslams and their sordid ownership of Browns and Univ ot Tennessee involvment.

Re the Crew: Given that the Haslam's did not really come into the picture until late 2018/2019, could you argue the 2020 championship was built by the former ownership team. Also, regarding the stadium, they had been pushing the downtown stadium site for a number of years and it was pretty much teed up by the time the Haslam's bought the team. Re University of Tenn: The Haslam family and Pilot Corporation are THE driving force and boosters behind the Tennessee football and basketball programs. Whenever you hear about recruits getting money, or dysfunction in the Athletic Department, there is usually the stench of a member of the Haslam family emanating pretty close to the scandal.

They may have won the cup in 2020 but one of their first big moves after "Saving the Crew," was to rebrand and eliminate the "Crew". Dee seems to be like Jimmy and be a bit impetuous in their decision making and have to walk back things a lot. Also it is relevant to point out that the Haslams have contributed greatly to the mess and struggles of the University of Tennessee athletic program over the last 15 years.

One other major factor in the KC arena that should be noted. The KC baseball and football stadiums were built in the 70s and besides a number of renovations have not had any issues with their tenants (re moving or a demand for new stadiums). It is a lot easier to invest in a major arena project when you do not have to worry about the Royals or Chiefs demanding new venues. I did read that the Royals want a new downtown stadium but those discussions are pretty preliminary at this point. In Cincinnati, you still are finishing paying the debt service on the close to billion dollars in stadiums built 20 years ago. To add an arena to the budget is a lot to ask the taxpayer.

Haslem has been a train wreck of an owner. not at all surprised if this is true

Neither the NBA or NHL would invest an an expansion team 90 minutes away from another competitor. The only way for Cincy to get a team is through a relocation which is highly unlikely too. THe NFL would have never put a team in Indy if the Baltimore owner had not forced his way there. NBA and NHL have the same mindset.

Leeper was on the radio the other day talking about incorporating a new arena with the convention center upgrade and hotel complex and he pretty much threw cold water on that idea. Ultimately, he said there really is not the footprint to build a modern arena in that area by the convention center at this time. Which means, to get a new arena, you put it at the Casino and let them pay for it, or you renovate USBank which would not be feasible without a major tenant. That gets back to the roof on Paul Brown. You have a major tenant, you can then get additional convention space and finance it partly with convention bonds and hotel taxes which are not currently there to pay for stadium renovations and upkeep. It now becomes part of the convention space and can host larger trade shows and meetings when not being used for Bengals events.

It has been a while but I used to go to Jacket games whenever Detroit came to town because I was a Red Wing fan. It did have a good 50/50 mix or more for the visitor, mostly because of the history of those teams. From the hockey market perspective. Columbus certain has had 20 years with a team and certainly that has led to a stable following, plus Cleveland has the Cavs, but just a pure winter sports perspective, there are a lot more ice skating and hockey rinks in the Cleveland area then in Columbus. This does not really relate much to the NHL but speaks to Cleveland more as a winter sports town. Now there are a lot of Penguin fans in NE ohio, and I was surprised at the number of Sabres fans around there too when I was up there. So Cleve could be a bit more competitive of a hockey market based on that. From a logistics point, it certainly made the most sense to place a team in Columbus However, I think we are veering a bit off topic since it is the Cincinnati Arena thread.

If this were even going to be an option, why would you do it with Columbus and Cincinnati. It would make much more sense to try it with Columbus and Cleveland. 1) Cleveland already has the arena in place so logistically it would be easier (I assume it could easily work around the Cavs schedule given it is only 1/2 a season) 2) Cleveland is a bit bigger hockey market than Cincinnati and also likely Columbus I would imagine.

This happened in the NBA in the 70s with the Kings splitting time between Omaha and Kansas City. It was a disaster and one of the reasons why the Kings are in Sacramento now. I think the Expos may have tried this 15 years ago in baseball as a last ditch effort to save the team in Montreal. The Rays have floated this idea too. It seems like this idea is just a last ditch effort to save a franchise, not a way to create market stability.

Also, in Las Vegas's home stadium.

I feel for Flores, I think he got the screw job in Miami based on his record. he is certainly proven his worth as a head coach and should/deserve to coach again on the surface. BUT..... I do take issue with his suit and goals. While i am all for increased diversity in the ranks of coaches, and think the Rooney Rule is good to help promote that diversity, at the end of the day, I do not think he will be legally successful, at least on the terms that he may hope. He will likely get a settlement out of this and then be blackballed from coaching again. He may get some changes from an NFL PR perspective, but that may be it. To his goals. 1) Increase influence of Black individuals in hiring: This may be the most likely chance of success. Given the amount of black players it only behooves the NFL to focus more on promotion of black coaches. I do think there has been success in this. Yes, Tomlin is now hte only black head coach, but the past problem of the bench of upcoming candidates is no longer the issue. Now, you have a list of qualified coordinators who are in consideration every cycle. That is going to be the thing that changes the perspective more than any lawsuit. 2) Increase objectivity in hiring and firing GM's/Head coaches - This is really a bunch of BS in my opinion. Coaches sign a contract to coach. They work at the behest of their owner. If the owner does not like the way they coach, or the way the coach deals with the media, or even if the coach wears the wrong color shoes to work, the owner can choose to relieve the coach from duties upon his will. He is the owner of the franchise, it is a private organization, the owner has a right to make the decision he wants no matter how arbitrary it may be. The contract spells out the terms of how the owner would have to relieve the coach and what payout that coach would be owed. This is a purely contractual relationship. What Flores seems to be arguing is that he should be entitled to specific performance under the contract based on his past record, or some objective metric. That has really never been how contract law has worked and it would set a horrible precedent by requiring Ross as the owner to continue to employ Flores in the position of head coach if Ross no longer has faith in Flores. Flores was fired and chances are, based on his contract, the firing was "not for cause". This means he can receive monetary damages for breach. There really is no other remedy. 3) Increase in the number of Black Coordinators - Applying the Rooney Rule to cordinators has led to a large increase in coordinators. We are seeing thr fruits of this. Between KC, Rams, Buffalo, SF, amongst other teams there has certainly been progress in this area, and will continue ot have such progress. If he is asking for a quota, that is a bit unreasonable especially given that each team makes their own hiring decisions, but the goal should be access and additional visiabiliy which I believe is being accomplished already. 4) Incentivize Hiring of Black coaches/GMs - I think this is being done already and you are just starting to see the fruits of this. 5) Transparency of Pay for GM's/Coaches/Coordinators - Given that the NFL is a private organization and the teams are private entities, there shoudl be no requirement here. Also, it is very hard to feel sorry for Flores on this issue because all of the NFL coaches even from the lower level of position coaches have agents to represent them. Most agents represent multiple coaches and coordinators in the league. The agents know the pay structure. Any agent worth their salt knows that the other teams are paying and negotiates off that amount. If Flores felt he was compensated unfairly, then he should have that argument with his agent.

They should go big, 1000 rooms. 50-60 stories. Make it a defining part of the Skyline.

You figure a major reno of PBS would be in the $500-$600 range (more than the cost to originally build it in 1997) but given costs to build something new of the same size and scope you are looking at 1.5 billion, so that is a good value IMO. Roof $250million, enclosures $250 million, additional upgrades $100 million)). If combing it with a convention project allows you to tap into additional funding sources, the value of doing so is even better. Look at all the new stadiums opened in the last 10 years for the NFL. ( Vegas, SoFi, USbank, Atlanta, Met Life, Levi's, Jerryworld) all but Met Life and Levis are inside. Even many of the newer stadiums since 2007 are inside (Cardinals, Colts, Texans, Lions). I think the trend for many reasons is in that direction.

I think Cleveland did a very good job with their new convention center and really envisioned it to carve out that niche where they can excel better than its peer competitors. Columbus/Indy/Nashville want to be like Chicago/ New York, Vegas, etc. with their convention business. THey had a 30 year head start on Cleve and Cincy. Cleveland did a great job or recognizing this and designing around it. Cincy I dont think ever had a cohesive plan. IX is a great addition to Cleveland because it offers such a large enclosed space larger than most convention centers. They never seemed to fully develop that concept though it is always seemed a bit industrial vs convention like in my opinion. Cincy with its arena needs and convention center needs could use this time to think outside the box and come up with something unique. Whether it is building an arena as part of a convention center expansion or adding space by putting a roof on Paul Brown, it could be an opportunity to create something unique. I am not a funding expert but you figure if you couple in renovations of Paul Brown with an overall convention center "expansion" or convention space expansion, you may be able to get some additional funding for the project by being able to tap into convention funds/hotel taxes/etc. because it will create more hotel nights for the city with more events at PBS. You could certainly get creative with such a development.

So the thing about the IX center is that it is great for shows for the public such as car shows, etc. It does not work so well for big conventions because it does not offer the meeting halls and contiguous hotel space you would expect to see at more traditional type convention halls. The floor show is nice, but then these big conventions also use a bunch of meeting rooms, etc, which the IX lacked from what I remembered.

back when I lived in Cleveland, the Cavs had very little support there too. Of course they ran a pretty vanilla offense, had zero stars and ugly uniforms. They would make the playoffs only to be fodder for one of the top teams in the East.

it is, but pretty much every market has sufficient secondary arenas.

US Bank could not qualify. Cincy was awarded the NCAA for 2021/2022 i believe on condition that US Bank was renovated to NCAA standards. Since it never happened, the event was pulled.

One of the key drivers to try and renovate or replace US Bank arena was getting the NCAA tourney to town. Does it matter if it is the first round or Final 4? I personally would rather have the final 4. It also could be incorporated into convention type space being only 3-4 blocks from Convention Center. I think it could be a good opportunity to pursue that angle Also, look at what can differentiate Cincinnati to Peer cities: Cincinnati - 2 Outdoor stadiums, 1 soccer Stadium, avg sized convention center, no arena Cleveland - 2 outdoor stadiums, 1 arena, avg convention size space Columbus - 1 outdoor stadium, 1 soccer, 2 arenas, large convention center Indy - 1 Dome stadium , 1 arena. large convention center St. Louis 1 Dome Stadium, 1 outdoor stadium, 1 soccer stadium, 1 arena, large convention center Louisville 1 arena, 1 stadium, avg convention center space Kansas City 2 large stadias, 1 arena, 1 soccer stadia, decent convention space Pittsburgh 2 large stadias, 1 arena, large convention center space Detroit 1 indoor stadium, 1 baseball stadium, 2 arenas, Nashville 1 large stadia, 1 soccer stadium, 1 arena, large convetion space. A dome would certainly separate Cincy in the equation where everyone else has a nice arena. Why do we need to follow the crowd, maybe it should be to think outside the box some.