cramer

It's not an insult. But it is a true reflection of the town.

Bo Schembechler has died.

Required to have a balanced budget.

I'll be at the meeting. Hopefully there's a good turnout. Also, David, we're not really bringing back the planning department. Yes, it's being split off from Community Development and getting a director, but they aren't hiring any new planners or getting any increased funding to do any sort of long range planning. In fact, they'd functionally lose one planner, since she's classified under the housing division. With the salary of a director, they could hire 2-3 planners, so it's really a bad thing for planning at the city level.

This is going to be a tough sell politically, since they just went through a tough fight a few years ago over fare increases. The buck a ride deal was convenient, but I understand they face tight budgets. Transit in Cincinnati still is relatively cheap, but it isn't the deal it used to be. It'd be nice if these increased fares paid for better service. Shouldn't their extensive use of biodiesel mitigate the volatility of fuel prices?

^At the risk of running this thread completely off the rails, I'm curious to hear from UncleRando why he has such a dislike for Kentucky.

Capital funding for the Art Museum, Music Hall, and Cincinnati Museum Center was also eliminated from the budget. I know that not everyone supports the idea of public support of the arts, but I think these institutions deserve city funding, if for no other reason than the city owns these buildings and shares a responsibility for their upkeep.

The more I read this thread, the less likely I'm having kids.

There's sometimes a fine line between pride and arrogance. For football and academics. As for me, I'm looking forward to a fine game between two of the nations best teams and schools. And hoping that win or lose, Ohioans make me proud.

So it's a GOOD thing for a stadium to NOT be intimidating during game day? Don't buy that one bit. No, read my sentence again. "Not all of this is positive..." As in, it's bad for Michigan. I'm trying to point to the differences in character of the fan bases, and giving a point to OSU.

^Oh, snap. Clearly, burning couches is worse. But to each his own I guess. If having standards of behavior equals elitism, then I guess it's real elitism. But I was trying to deploy it tongue in cheek. Believe me, if you knew me then, nothing got on my nerves more. It's one of the worse characteristics of the community. Dude, I only wish A2 had a Potbelly's back then. I'm not trying to denigrate OSU the school, just certain elements of OSU the fanbase, to the extent they can be differentiated. These elements have given the rest of the student body a black eye. I have nothing but respect for OSU as an institution, and I'm glad to learn here on this board of their efforts to improve the school.

I'm assuming that was a response to me. Listen, I'm just telling you how I saw it. I'm not saying all Michigan students, alums, or fans are saints. Believe me, I'm thinking of a few friends and some of the trouble they caused in Happy Valley, South Bend, Madison, East Lansing, etc. I'm quite certain that some U-Mers act like jerks. Shit, I almost got into a fight with Papa Bear's son (Justin Fargas) and some freshman DB. But my experiences from 1996-2000 in Ann Arbor and lots of weekends in Columbus in the early 00s lead me to some conclusions. Not all of this is positive for U-M by the way. Part of having a non-rabid fan base means that Michigan Stadium isn't intimidating in the least, and huge sections of seats are padded by hands.

As for the superiority complex, I was mainly just kidding. But it really is part of the tradition. I prefer to think of it as an inferiority complex to the Ivy League. And when it comes to looking down at their fellow Big 11ers, nobody does it like Northwestern. I refuse to assent to the idea that Michigan fans are as big of idiots as OSU fans. I've seen both up close. Again, at least during my time there, it's not even close. But Ann Arbor did take action in the early 90s to curb some of the more outrageous behavior. I never saw a burned couch. 1908, that's a different story. http://www.aadl.org/aapd/history/5 Regarding the anti-OSU chants. I'm just being honest -- I really have never heard them. Of course, I went to U-M during the Cooper years, so maybe there just wasn't much vitriol then. MSU was a bigger deal, at least on and around campus.

I didn't even realize there were anti-OSU chants. I prefer to maintain a haughty disdain for OSU and its fans and not engage in such frivolities. It's one of the most cherished traditions of U of M. I don't even hate OSU, I just view them with contempt. The UM-MSU rivalry has lost some of it's luster, but it's really one of the best intrastate rivalries, after Auburn-Alabama and, more recently, the assorted Florida teams.

"A-N" Boy, that *was* fun. Now I see why they do it. Maybe now we should appropriate some mid-60s frat rock song and sing it before every fourth quarter. On second thought...

^Posted by someone living in Kentucky. Irony: delicious and good for you!

This feels like Center of Cincinnati all over again.

I've read that C-bus and the university are working to make sure that fan behavior isn't as appalling as it's been in years past. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone in Columbus about whether things are improving. Ann Arbor is nothing like Columbus on game day, and the reason is that the University and city put the brakes on boorish behavior in early to mid 90s. Hopefully they can clean things up a bit, because it's a real black eye for the city, the school, and its fans.

Michigan 24 - OSU 17

I didn't mean to imply that that was the main reason for overcrowding, that would be ridiculous. Just trying to introduce the idea that there may be more to the story than just a generic "get tough" stance. To clarify, I'm not just talking about bogus charges, as in falsely accused, but relatively minor charges for which people used to not get imprisoned. Just something to think about, like the work release article upthread, when we consider our real jail space needs.

I meant that it's one contributing factor for the over-crowding, not one reason I voted no. But it does introduce some doubt as to what our real capacity needs are. Do you really think it's that simple -- that a no vote means a vote against putting criminals in prison? I'm sorry that you've apparently ignored much of what I said and focused on one point, but you'll see I mention several factors that all add up to a no vote in my post a few up. I'm introducing the radical idea that you can recognize a problem and not agree with the proposed solution. I don't think a sales tax increase is the best way to pay for it, especially in light of the fact that there might be state and federal funds we can draw from. The processing issue is probably the least important factor I mentioned. Nobody had a proposed site, and I think that's part of the reason the ballot language read "for criminal justice purposes." The plan wasn't ready to be voted on, and I wasn't comfortable potentially giving Heimlich carte blanche to decide it after the fact. And since we've bought ourselves time by our arrangement with Butler County, there's no reason to rush it with a bad solution. I'm glad Pepper is making it a priority, and I bet we end up with a better result in the long run.

Just to throw this out there... One of the proposals for the use of the Blue Ash airport cash made by the Department of Community Development and Planning was to fund streetcars. No clue how it was received as it moved up the chain to the City Manager.

From speaking with attorneys at the Legal Aid Society of Greater Cincinnati. I'm not saying it's the whole reason, just a contributing factor. And those waiting to be processed stay at the Justice Center, those convicted can go to Butler County. To me, the fact that we're using space in Butler County buys us time to figure out a better plan. The whole thing smacked of election year politics to scare us into building a jail and voting for Heimlich.

Good question. I think it can go back as soon as supporters can get the signatures. I'd imagine they're waiting on a good plan and more favorable circumstances. Remember, it failed almost 2 to 1. People I've talked with at OKI seemed to think it was a non-starter to try a sales tax on a similar plan. I believe it has been removed from their long range plans, since they are fiscally constrained. I think the only way to go is a small start program. Then people can see for themselves and pay for additions to the lines.

Well, I voted against it -- so I guess I voted against putting criminals in prison. I think it lost because people didn't like that it was a sales tax and that no one could say where it was going. Just because there's a problem doesn't mean you have to vote on a bad solution. Jail wasn't even in the ballot language iirc, it may have lost votes b/c of that. Also, I don't think everyone was convinced by the lack of jail space arguments. I'm not sure that any judge is changing sentencing because of lack of space. A lot of the constraints can be attributed to people going in on bogus charges and can't post, so they wait for processing or trial.