YO to the CLE

Thank goodness it includes that parking garage too! That thing has to have some kind of code violations.

I just can't see SHW going all the way out to pasture. I am pretty sure every single philanthropic body in Cleveland (Cleveland Foundation, GCP, etc). are all going to push for reducing sprawl like this. The city will more than likely give a decent tax break to have a shiny new HQ tower in their skyline. Everyone is going to want them downtown. I know the DiGeronimo family has some clout in CLE, but I don't see it being enough to make a difference. They might get the R&D but that's likely the worst case scenario.

I used to get so depressed thinking about this intersection and the hurdles that would need to be overcome to eliminate the gas station, burger king, and happy's chicken and build a truly vibrant intersection...I also used to have that same thought for the plaza across from the West Side Market though and look where that is going...Miracles do happen.

I think the evidence on the ground this time around is a lot more promising than in the 2000's. We could arguably count on two hands the level of development in this city between 2000-2010. Sure, historic rehabs downtown were going on, but new construction in the neighborhoods was non-existent. All of us who have lived here through the recession can see the difference. It just feels bigger and more stable this time around. I mean, we are even seeing rehabs and new builds of homes in neighborhoods previously written off.

This is very encouraging. And with all these large projects being talked about as of late, I don't see the trend slowing down. I think we should stop worrying about population loss and start worrying more about built environment loss at this point. Even as the population turns around, there are still A LOT of decaying buildings in our city. We can't sacrifice what makes Cleveland unique. As someone who travels to Texas often. Population growth is never the only answer. Proper planning is more important. Their cities are U-G-L-Y.

I actually envision Gold Coast level density in the coming years. Basically between Franklin and Detroit and 45th and the river will be quite a dense little area

That is awesome! I know we constantly hear negativity about how other states are so much more progressive than Ohio, but I do have to say, our multi-purpose state-wide trail system is definitely one of the best in the country. We may not have the mountains, but I think it is pretty awesome that you can get to all 3 of our big cities without riding on any roads!

So when they say they want the R&D facility located close to the actual HQ, do they literally want it attached to the HQ or simply close by like it is now? Because that opens up even more options. For example, Landmark Office Towers are a fortress. I could see putting an R&D facility in there on the lower floors and putting apartments on the upper floors. And then a new tower on PS is literally a short walk through Tower City

Ugh I really hope Sherwin considering a suburban location is just a negotiation ploy. I throw up in my mouth thinking of losing this many jobs to Brecksville. KJP, I know your articels are very well written to not be biased (good reporting), but did you get an impression either way from the tone of your conversations with everyone what direction this really would go? Is the consensus leaning towards somewhere in the city?

Ugh the Carnegie photo...So much lost in this area. This was basically our equivalent to Toronto's Queen St West neighborhood. All completely wiped out. And there are actually a number of guilty parties...ODOT, Cleveland State, St Vincent, Tri-C. To answer the question of when Carnegie was punched through to connect with Lorain...using Historic Aerials topo maps, it appears it was sometime between 1950 and 1955. That was probably the beginning to the end for this poor neighborhood.

Well here's a hopeful sign...I still think some of the housing being knockeddown could be salvaged for less than the cost of this new build, but I understand the need for new housing in a neighborhood that hasn't had it in almost 100 years. There's about 4-5 of these in this vicinity listed on Zillow. Knez may not have the most architecturally creative housing; but it is built densely and with detached garages, so I am not completely opposed. Just wish we could save more of the nice Victorians in Fairfax. https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Cleveland-OH/33409660_zpid/24115_rid/41.507098,-81.607304,41.479164,-81.653438_rect/14_zm/

If for some crazy reason they end up having to pay out this ransom, some loser in his mom's basement is going to have a lot of spare cash for cheetos and monster energy drinks.

^ I agree. It's not my personal favorite design, but it's way better than the vinyl sided stuff that's been built in the past all over Tremont. I do like that our housing prices are starting to creep up enough where there's a little more creativity granted to architects in the design phase.

I just saw a rendering of what is planned for the current Cleveland Dialysis center at E 118th and Euclid. I was unfortunately not able to snap a photo; however, everyone on this board would be very pleased if it is built in it's current design. Looks to be about 8-10 stories, retail, hidden parking garage. All the things we like here at Urban Ohio.

I am really digging that site plan and design for the W 48th homes. I hope the block club doesn't interfere too much here.

I'm actually ok with this builder-box design. I agree on your comments whole-heartedly, but for some reason this one does it for me. Maybe because the random uses of different materials coincide with the overall random haphazard feel of many of the structures up and down the river.

I see the PERFECT space for a City Target...Combine either the first and second floor retail spaces along E 9th/Euclid perimeter or the basement and first floor retail spaces and you have the perfect square footage and prominent location. If anyone from Millenia lurks on this board, please oh please make it happen. Signed, Every Downtown Cleveland Resident

^Yes, KJP. Thank You. I am not advocating tearing down Riverview or Lakeview Estates in Ohio City which, would be a direct displacement of poor people. But absolutely I think we need to be happy if rents tick up in Old Brooklyn, West Blvd, Cudell. Let's just be real here. If you have a stable job in Cleveland, you have a lot of choice where you can live. Subsidized housing aside, would you choose to pay $600-$700 to be in a stable neighborhood like Old Brooklyn or pay $400-$500 to live in St Clair-Superior? Because that's currently the difference in price points. We will never advance as a city this way unless we get a massive influx of immigrants which unfortunately probably won't happen soon. And it's not like we are relegating poor people to far flung suburbs like you see in other cities. The neighborhoods that need filled in arguably have some of the best transit access in the state and better access to jobs. I am saying that maybe higher rents in some neighborhoods will force working class citizens to take another look at a place like Slavic Village. Then, hopefully the influx of this populace will disrupt the cycle of extreme poverty that has been entrenched in these neighborhoods for generations now and bring better amenities. The rising tides lifts all ships theory. And by better amenities, I am not saying art galleries or Starbucks. I am saying let's start by filling the vacant buildings with something other than the nothingness there now where residents literally have to drive to Steelyard to get their basic necessities. Edit I am sorry for derailing the thread.

This entire thread is why I so passionately disagree with anyone in this city who uses the gentrification argument against new development. This is a problem on the coasts. I WANT gentrification here. We absolutely need it if we ever expect to have a chance at saving much of the East Side's built environment. Keep rents going up on the west side because we desperately need the spillover

So they are going to demolish both the St Clair building and the E 156th St building? The people at City Hall are their own worst enemy

I have always loved what Case did with their stadium tucked within the dorms. I would be thrilled if CSU could pull something like that off at the site of the Wolstein. There is nothing to be proud of with the current Wolstein Center, both as an urbanist and a CSU alum. It would really be a win for all if done right. Density in a much needed area of downtown, improved walkability even if it doesn't come with a ton of retail, and an improved image for a growing school. KJP, tell me that might happen!

^ I would tend to agree, but somehow, Town Hall made it work

I have mixed feelings as well. I think I am happy with the choices made because I firmly believe in building out from successful nodes, basically the spillover effect. However, I think the zones need to definitely include the fringes of said neighborhoods and should be an ever changing boundary. For example, at this very point in time, the Eastern Hough, Southern Glenville areas should definitely be included, but as those stabilize, the boundaries should be shifted further north in Glenville towards St Clair and further west in Hough towards 55th

NYC is on a whole other level of construction. It's absolutely thrilling to watch!

I know I am the minority here, but I do not feel Cleveland's skyline is that drab. I actually like the different architectural styles present i our downtown. I think the only drab area is definitely the Malls. Our downtown is not quite as colorful as Pitt's, but both cities certainly pack a punch in terms of iconic, powerful towers. I like a mix of all glass, but even a city as impressive as Toronto has a sort of monolithic glass feel. Too much IMO. And at least we don't have the Chicago issue (land of the beige precast).