Tom

Gramarye, I have to say that your post looks like a thesaurus threw up on this site. Did you write it with a quill? James Mathews, the said map of which you spoke is in error. UA has just confirmed so to me and added that they do not own land on Main Street other than the Polsky Building. It's one thing to have an opinion and quite another to base it on false information. By the way, I have much love and commitment for downtown Akron. I have volunteered for many downtown events and continue to do so and I support the mayor and when he and I disagree we are both very clear with one another and don't consider each other hateful or vitriolic. I have also volunteered for many supportive services in the greater Akron and Summit County Community. However, I don't blindly support anyone or institution and that includes The University of Akron. Redefining your opponent's position in a debate has always been a cheap shot by those who have dishonest, hidden or hostile agendas. Being steadfast is not being vitriolic. And recognizing boundaries between the campus and downtown does not equal virulent hatred of the city. And since a couple of you have a penchant for using loaded language and high sounding words when debating, here's one that applies to you: demagoguery.

You have the classic distorted if not perverted view of the concept of Town-and -Gown. The concept is about a university's intellectual, academic and research relationship with its entire community and not contaminated capitol improvement projects with parochial downtown politicians over any structure. Your view is so typically "Akron" and I disagree with it. I just really started reading this thread and, admittedly, I keep reading because of what Gramarye describes above. It's one of those really bizzare things that lends itself to (IMO) high comedy while reading an internet forum. I just started getting to know Akron the past month or so since I've been working here. Oddly, despite growing up almost as close to Akron as I was to Cleveland, I had pretty much never been here and knew nothing about it. So my first impression when I went into the city was "Oh, that's pretty cool. Campus is adjacent to downtown." Kind of boxed in by the valley and surrounding freeways, it seemed more compact and connected than say, Cleveland and Cleveland State. That was about it...I still don't really have much of a feel for it. Then I read this thread and the vitriol from Tom regarding the arena potentially being built off campus in downtown Akron was amusing to me. Had I not been to Akron, I might have thought downtown Akron and Akron U's campus were pretty seperate. Frankly, I'm not exactly sure where one starts and the other ends. So I don't really understand what the argument is about, or at least I have no idea what there is to get so worked up about. It's not like they're considering a site out by the Rubber Bowl. Had I not been to Akron, I might have thought downtown Akron and Akron U's campus were pretty seperate. Frankly, I'm not exactly sure where one starts and the other ends. Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,15165.30.html#ixzz1WZHCGUjd That is your problem right there. There is a distinction between The University of Akron (BTW - It is not called Akron U) and downtown Akron and the last thing our UA wants to do is look like a cheap version of Cleveland State. We are an urban campus and we are proud to look like a distinct campus. Anything less than that is a knock off university deserving of little respect and recognition and saying so is not vitriol against downtown Akron. Quit putting words in another's mouth.

You have the classic distorted if not perverted view of the concept of Town-and -Gown. The concept is about a university's intellectual, academic and research relationship with its entire community and not contaminated capitol improvement projects with parochial downtown politicians over any structure. Your view is so typically "Akron" and I disagree with it.

Nice stretch but no cigar. Your post comes off as the mayor's smoke and mirrors. The 22 Exchange complex is perceived as no more on camppus than the same structure that exists in Kent. Both are clearly not a part of either campus. And UA officials and the general public know this already. The real key to a successful region is to let The University of Akron be The University of Akron and Downtown Akron be Downtown Akron. Anything less than that is an obvious shell game by a desperate community. As far as thinking in the so-called fourth dimension, is that your kitchie way of saying I should think outside the box? That dog don't hunt no more and there is no such thing as a fourth dimension. What Kool-Aide have you been drinking? Bottom line: there is no way a downtown metropolitan arena can look like a university campus. It will always look like a downtown arena and UA's presence in that location will make it look like a third rate community college at best. In all reality a downtown UA arena will look like an Akron, Ohio municipal arena and I believe that is the goal of those who promote such an idiotic proposal. Downtown Akron and its leaders have been unfortunately all about smoke and mirrors and they want UA to build them an arena on UA's dime so that they can hijack it and lead people to believe that it has nothing to do with our university just like they have done with E.J. Thomas Hall. And this is why the mayor of Akron hates the location of UA's InfoCision Stadium. He can't trick people into thinking that it is about him.

I don't consider the area you mention as campus proper. It's not all that contiguous unless UA plans on purchasing St. Bernard Church and even in that unlikely event, the area is still not contiguous or campus proper. UA owns many areas near or in downtown like the Polsky Building. To me those areas are annexes to the actual campus (rubber bowl) and not campus proper. Also, there is no proposed site for the UA arena. The UPA architect was just admittedly pipe dreaming and UPA has already disclaimed his fantasy since UPA's mission is to develop the area around the campus and not the campus itself. I wonder about the Main Street presence like you. Perhaps the area you mention as being recently purchased by UA (if the Google map is accurate. Wikopedia has the same problem with accuracy and allowing just anybody to change facts on their sites) will be the site of additional parking for the students. Part of it is already UA parking currently.Who knows? Also, like you I'm curious why said map indicates that UA owns St. Bernard Church and the land it is on, The Chapel on Fir Hill and its land, Central Hower High School and the land it is on, The National Inventors Hall of Fame School and its land, and the recently restored historical landmark between Maiden lane and Main Street. I'm pretty sure those parcels are currently owned by The Roman Catholic Diocese of Cleveland, The Chapel on Fir Hill and The Akron Public School System and a private developer respectively. Interesting! I'm fairly certain though that UA will take/purchase Central Hower and its footprint with the blessings of APS when APS is done using it as a swing school but that doesn't look like it will be soon. Good observations on your part though, James. Oh and the last I checked, Grismer's Catholic/Christian Gifts is still located at 272 South High Street with the land and building owned by the family. They do claim however that if UA wants to buy them, they'll cooperate only if UA opens and Irish pub :drunk: on their site. Said map indicates that UA currently owns Grismer's as well. Also, if I may adjust my definition, campus proper refers to the area of any campus that is truly, clearly and visually conspicuous (such as InfoCision Stadium) as being on the actual visual campus as opposed to some marginal location that can only be defined as questionably and technically on campus (such as Main Street in downtown). According to your map interpretation, UA owns St Bernard's, The Inventor's Hall of Fame School, The Chapel on Fir Hill, Akron Digital Academy, The Mayflower, Grismer's Catholic Store and the private retail establishment that is being restored by a private developer. Again UA will build its arena on the actual campus and not on any fabricated, smoke and mirrors location that local politicians may have disingenuously dubbed "on campus". Making an issue out of my personal if not fallible definition of "campus proper" is at best not germane and at the very least hair splitting for the sake of being combative. I won't go there with you my friend.

To me campus proper is something that is contiguous with the rest of the campus. Beyond that response, I'm not going to navel gaze. In my opnion, campus proper is obvious. If it isn't in your opinion then so be it. Campus proper doesn't include non-contiguous campus property which excludes a so-called "downtown arena" Campus proper includes everything that Dr. Proenza and Ted Curtis envisions it to be and not what the mayor envisions it to be.

Agreed. I think we will see a new law school, a new college of education building and a new arena sooner or later somewhere on campus proper. Also, recall that a feasability study was done on the rubber bowl before UA had the justification for building a new on-campus football stadium. I think the money for all three will come eventually. UA has a good track record of partnering with donors who have come through with other on-campus projects such as the soccer stadium, football stadium and performing arts hall.

Are they still accepting proposals for that area or is the North Side Marriott going to fill that need now?

The link to this is tricky. So i copied and pasted it. Hope it helps. Project Name James A Rhodes Arena Feasibility Study Response Deadline 07/11/2011 2:00 local time Project Location The University of Akron Project Number 110028 City / County Akron / Summit Project Manager Frank J. Horn Local Administration Agency/Institution The University of Akron Phone Number 330.972.6469 Inquiries to* Bill Jenkins Fax Number 330.972.5564 Address 1 100 Lincoln Street #209 E-mail Address [email protected] Address 2 No. of Paper Copies (stapled, not bound) 4 City, State ZIP Akron, Ohio 44325-0405 No. of Electronic Copies on CD (PDF) 1 * Mail or deliver the requested number of Statements of Qualifications (SAO Form F110-330) directly to this contact. Do not send submittals to the State Architect’s Office. See Section H for additional submittal instructions. Project Overview A. Project Description The A/E will provide recommendations to The University of Akron for improvements at James A Rhodes Arena. Modifications will include improved sight lines, revisions to seating configuration for enhanced fan experience, premium seating accommodations, improved concessions, novelty, & ticketing as well as team facilities, offices and operations support. Solutions may include renovation and expansion of the existing arena, or demolition and construction of a new arena if modification of the existing facility is not practicable. Relocation costs (interim or permanent) for affected departments will be included in the feasibility study. A comparative analysis of the site and related project costs will be included in the study. The A/E will conduct interviews and formulate a program of requirements (POR) for arena modifications for review and approval by Capital Planning & Facilities Management. Design alternatives will be studied by the A/E for review and discussion with The University of Akron. The Owner-approved solution will be developed as a schematic design to inform cost estimates, renderings, and related recommendations. The study shall be presented in a final report (digital and hard copy) to include the POR, conceptual building and site plans, building sections and elevations, event set-up plans, circulation plans, proposed design & construction schedules, and an estimate of probable cost prepared by professionals experienced in the construction of arena improvements. All facilities will incorporate the latest available technology for connectivity including broadcast and alternative media. Building design will enable a comfortable environment year round with systems performance at least 20% more efficient than ASHRAE 90.1 (2004). All facilities will meet or exceed the requirements for ADA. . B. Scope of Services The selected Architect/Engineer (A/E), as a portion of its required Scope of Services will participate in the Encouraging Growth, Diversity and Equity (EDGE) Program as required by statute and the Agreement. As required by the Agreement, and as properly authorized, provide the following categories of services: Program Verification and Schematic Design,. Refer to The SAO Manual for additional information about the type and extent of services required for each. Programming Phase: Develop the program of requirements as outlined above. Establish relationships between primary elements, and provide diagrams which illustrate the relationship of all components to one another. Verify relationships of the arena to external entities (i.e. broadcast production, media, vendors, and the like). Inspect and analyze pedestrian and vehicular traffic to and around the site, including parking. Provide diagrams which illustrate recommended relationships, to site circulation. Preliminary Design Phase: Create preliminary drawings (site plan, floor plans, sections, elevations, etc.), renderings, and cost estimates which reflect all program requirements. Review alternative design solutions with University of Akron designees to select an approved design solution. Compile approved design recommendations in a final report as described above and provide digital copies of the report elements suitable for University use in communicating the recommendations via websites and other electronic media.

http://www.ohio.com/news/boston-group-to-return-to-update-ua-plan-1.215381 here is the one ABJ link. I'll try to relocate the other. Frankly, I was wondering the same thing you are. I think UA will need two facilities one way or the other. I think Mr. Curtis is just trying to keep all options open until he and the AE can see the bids specifications. I imagine that in one of those specs your and my question will be answered. And, to answer you further, UA definitely needs the land where Rhodes Gym currently is (it currently is not an arena). Whether they add to it or demolish it, UA still needs the footprint. Word is out that one of the other unspoken reasons why the footprint of Memorial Hall will not be used for the new College of Education Building is due to the possibility that it may be used for an addition to the existing JAR or for a JAR replacement entirely with a practice Gym attached. The University of Akron has its eyes on a true multi-purpose arena in the middle of campus proper. A downtown arena is off the table and has been for some time. UA wants as many non-UA people as possible attracted to campus proper. This philosophy has contributed to the new 30,000 seat football stadium in the heart of the campus and enrollment figures increasing to almost 30,000 students.

Being steadfast is not the same as disrespecting difference of opinion and the fact that there are others who agree with me is indicative of the overwhelming majority of UA campus people who want the UA arena on campus proper.

from the ABJ, 6/20/2011. "...Curtis said there has been some talk of ''using [the JAR] as a practice gym and building a new arena on campus or as a joint effort with the city of Akron and Summit County.'' However, with projected costs at $60 million to $70 million for a new arena and money tight for all potential partners, the current facility instead might be renovated, Curtis said." Looks to me like our new arena will be on the campus where it should be one way or the other. It's also worthy to note that Ted Curtis expresses no concern about large crowds of non-UA students coming to the campus. Also worthy of note: Recently Released: James A Rhodes Arena Feasibility Study The A/E will provide recommendations to The University of Akron for improvements at James A Rhodes Arena. Modifications will include improved sight lines, revisions to seating configuration for enhanced fan experience, premium seating accommodations, improved concessions, novelty, & ticketing as well as team facilities, offices and operations support. Solutions may include renovation and expansion of the existing arena, or demolition and construction of a new arena if modification of the existing facility is not practicable. Relocation costs (interim or permanent) for affected departments will be included in the feasibility study. A comparative analysis of the site and related project costs will be included in the study. This can be found on the U of A - Construction Public Bid Advertisements and Results webpage. Proposals are due in the middle of July.

The only downtown hotels I am aware of are The Ramada Plaza, The Quaker Square Inn at The University of Akron and the soon-to-be Marriott on the north side. Am I missing anything?

The part that put the UA arena downtown that's what shot involved the campus itself. Also, UPA's presentation involved more than video shots. Try reading the quotes from Stanton Eckstute. You want to start with your minutia that got the other thread locked? Bring it. Wanting to "Blur the distinction between the city and campus" is involving the campus." Stop being disengenuous and provoking.

Let's remember that UPA's mission (and it is a good one) is to develop the 50 block area around the campus and not the campus itself. It seems that this architect has gone beyond the mission statement of UPA. Archtects are dreamers and many, like this one dream to edify themselves as opposed to the area. By the way, there is no proposed arena site. That proposal will come strictly from UA and not UPA. The video depicting the arena downtown is nothing more than a pipe dream by a few individuals with greedy political agendas.