Rustbelter

I think in the long run the Cavs are better off being really bad for a couple of seasons so they can get some good draft picks and gut their roster. I would much rather see this than some team that is barely .500 each year and hopes for that 8 seed. If things for the Cavs would have fallen into place better this season we may have seen the later.

Whoever is in charge of marketing for Cleveland should really push this aspect to artist types in NYC and Chicago. Maybe pass out some flyers in Williamsburg and Wicker Park! Especially considering that cities like Pittsburgh, Cincy, or Buffalo are also viable options. Some of these articles are nice, but frankly most people in NYC or Chicago would look at you crazy if you told them you were taking your art career to Cleveland. Who knows, maybe Cleveland can be the new Portland!

This is for sure. I should have told you not to waste your time going there. Cleveland also has a much higher percentage of Italians in seems. Chicago does have some serious Polish neighborhoods, but they are not exactly tourist friendly.

Given those rates you would think there would be more apartments getting built downtown. What's that hold up? Are developers against building new construction in an urban area that is not condos?

Yeah, Gary is much worse off than Y-Town. Y-Town has a fairly intact downtown, university, and a few decent neighborhoods. Gary is just a complete wreck (except for that new-ish baseball stadium I guess).

Ah, my place of birth. Although I have never spotted a llama there. Nice Caddyshack reference! Trust me, there are plenty of drunk hillbillies around there. Not to mention roughneck bikers. The clock tower has remained safe despite this. Maybe it's because all of the drinking establishments are near the lake.

If you looking for a place to pop in for a meal close to your hotel I recommend the Gage on Michigan Ave. http://www.thegagechicago.com/

I live in Chicago, so here is my input: 1. Wicker Park/Bucktown (trendy/hipster), Lincoln Park (yuppie), Lakeview (frat/yuppie/gayborhood) 2. Art Institute and Field Museum 3. Check out the Metromix Chicago website. 4. Milwaukee Avenue and Division Street in Wicker Park, Damon Avenue in Bucktown, and the area around Armitage and Halsted in Lincoln Park. 5. Lots to chose from, depending on your tastes. The most classic Chicago bar is the Green Mill. It was Al Capone's joint. Given your screen name you might enjoy La Scarola, and then you could pop into Richards Bar next door. Wicker Park/Bucktown has a lot of cool bars (think Tremont on steroids). Some are neighborhood taverns on residential streets. Go to Portillo's for Italian Beef and Hot Dogs and Giordano's for stuffed Chicago Pizza. They are both downtown close to Michigan Ave.

Yes, the NE quadrant of downtown has great potential. There are a lot of cool warehouses (especially down Superior) that could be reused as well as a good amount of insignificant 1-story structures that could be replaced. I think you will have to see the warehouse district built out and the CSU area really take off before it will happen though. A big reason why I like the idea of turning the waterfront line into a downtown loop is because it would serve this area. I believe this was a busy residential district back in the day filled with dense apartment blocks. Imagine if all that would have been preserved.

I would have to agree. Revitalization is not necessarily the same as gentrification, which is how market rate forces turn areas around. Gentrification suggests that there is more of an upscale presence (i.e. "the gentry") coming into a neighborhood, which usually follows artists and urban pioneers. Not quite the same as building a bunch of housing targeted as affordable. Immigrants could also transform a neighborhood, but that is not what is being contrasted in this case.

It's not about not wanting investment in Collinwood, it's about being realistic. The west side has the best momentum (on a neighborhood level) and that is the area which will likely reach the tipping point first. Like I said earlier, it's about creating a critical mass and building off of that. That's typically how it has worked in other cities. It's not about a west side bias either, because I don't think anyone here is discrediting the growth potential of University Circle. Questioning why development happened in Tremont instead of downtown or Ohio city does not make sense. The fact that development did happen there is largely due to proximity to other areas with potential. One of Cleveland's biggest problems in my mind is the lack of concentration of good neighborhoods and amenities. All the good parts of town seem to be next to a rough areas instead of growing off of each other. Right or wrong, this is just the reality of how it is. It's not just in Cleveland either. Go to Chicago and you don't see much gentrification in majority black neighborhoods. It all occurs in white or Hispanic areas. Perhaps only NYC and D.C. have seen substantial gentrification in majority black neighborhoods, and we all know the economic factors in those cities are much stronger drivers than in cities like Cleveland.

How is discussing the long term viability of Waterloo off-base? Cleveland is about the last city that has to worry about artists getting priced out by yuppies. Artists can find cheap housing in Cleveland just about anywhere.

I mentioned 40th & St. Clair because it's at least close to downtown, CSU, and Tyler Village. I think it's better to have something like this over there, where it's more likely to gain momentum due to the proximity of other improving areas. Same goes with 41st & Lorain (proximity to Market Square/Tremont/Gordan Square). And yes, I have been to the Waterloo Arts District and E. 185th St. I used to go to E. 185th on a regular basis actually when I was working over in that part of town. Frankly, I fear that E. 185th will suffer from the decline of Euclid.

Well I'm glad there are some positive individuals working towards the improvement of this area. The initiatives and the proximity to the Lake are good points. I still would feel more comfortable if this area popped up around say W. 41st & Lorain or E. 40th & St. Clair. Typically urban rejuvenation occurs along a path from a focal point, and when one area reaches a critical mass it then bleeds over to the next. That's pretty much how it works everywhere, so it's not just a Cleveland thing. In Cleveland the current focal points are downtown, the near west side, and University Circle. However, the Waterloo Arts District is like a random node away from any of these.

Not to be a Buzz Killington, but I have always been skeptical of the long term potential of this area. It seems to be a small bright spot in a sea of decline over in that section of the city. It's not like Tremont/Ohio City/Detroit-Shoreway, which I think in the long run will be helped out by their proximity to each other. Anyone care to refute my concerns? Because what is there seems to be very cool indeed. Will it be enough to really grow into the future? Frankly I don't even know why it exists considering that these business could set up shop somewhere like Gordan Square or Ohio City. It's not like they were "gentrified" out of former artsy areas. I suppose the Beachland Ballroom is what gave artists a reason to cluster over there.

All true. Pittsburgh has a big advantage when it comes to inner city neighborhoods. It would be nice if Cleveland could strengthen its inner city neighborhoods to Pittsburgh's level. It would take the addition of a good deal of structural density to do so. Although I think Cleveland has a better downtown (not aesthetically speaking), and Pittsburgh does have more suburban blight due to the ways these cities grew and declined.

Nice photos. All familiar since I live and work right off Michigan Ave. It's no NYC though.

Well, that would cost a lot more money. Millenium Park is successful, but it cost nearly $500 million (about 2 x the proposed coast). Also, one major reason for it's success is the close proximity to busy Michigan Avenue. You already had the critical mass of people near by to support Mellenium Park when it was built, plus a ton of residential buildings going up next to it. I don't think the interactivity of Mellenium Park created its success. It was successful because it was a nice addition to an already active area.

Well, Olivia Wilde is my list. She is hot! Along with these other ladies: Sofia Vergara Kate Beckinsale Mila Kunis Marisa Tomei Nadine Valazquez Emmanuelle Chrique Maria Menounos

I agree. I was just in town a couple of times for the holidays and was thinking the same thing. I think some newer housing would create a more visual impact that this area is improving, not to mention put a more consistent presence on the streets and help day-to-day businesses. We all know the great amenities that Ohio City has, but it's still rough around the edges which could be a turn off to potential residents and investors. And quite frankly the neighborhood should be more dense considering that it's directly west of downtown and it has a transit stop. Of course you do not want to tear down historic structures that could be renovated, but I see a good amount of houses and empty lots around there the could be replaced with modern townhomes or lofts. Apparently the demand is not there however, which this housing market only makes worse. Hopefully that changes over the next decade.

If the primary goal is to serve the areas of Collinwood and to the east then why not just do the Red Line extension as posted earlier in this thread?

Yes, and I like your ideas in the long term. I just don't see this as an area with the most demand for this type of investment, thus more prime areas should be targeted first.

I understand it just fine actually and I'm all for it. IMHO Cleveland is not ready for an east extension of the waterfront line at this point, but I think it's ready for a downtown loop. If you were to build that east extension today it would end up being primarily a park-n-ride. The majority the land north of St. Clair out to Rockefeller Park is industrial at this point and the lake front parkland over that way needs an overhaul. It would be another thing if that area was being primed for redevelopment, but that is just not the case. In fact most people in the Cleveland area view that as a part of the city to be avoided. Hopefully sometime down the road it will be revitalized and a rail extension would make sense, but like I said in my earlier post there are areas that will have a demand for this sooner. This is the way I also see it. Cleveland needs to have a good vision to build upon its assets. After one part of town gets going it will spread to adjacent areas. That is typically how it works in any city that has gone through mass revitalization. I can think of several areas where TOD should be implemented (Downtown, Ohio City/25th St, West Blvd, 150th & Puritans, W. 117th), but it should be in already active areas first. It's nice they are finally doing it right around University Circle, and of course Shaker Square is a good example.

OK, I'll give you Perry. A lot of those people also work at the nuclear plant or have moved out of Painsville (the perceived ghetto of Lake County) into more suburban style housing to the east. Madison however I would not consider exurban, although I agree that it certainly could turn out that way in the not so distant future. You may find some very limited suburban style development around Madison, or even parts of Ashtabula County, but I think these are more likely long time locals than people who moved out from Cleveland. Even in small town American people view living in a mcmansion development as the American dream and have upgraded to that type of house from their older "in-town" house. Ashtabula City for example definitely has its own localized sprawl that has occurred while the older neighborhoods have degenerated.

Yes, exactly. I think a transit line like this loop would be a great asset to downtown. I'm sure it would increase ridership on the underused waterfront line and help spur residential development around it. On the other hand I don't think extending the waterfront line east would accomplish much at this point in time. In fantasy land we could make all of the land to the east between St. Clair and the Shoreway into a packed residential district to be served by such a rail line. In reality nobody is going to be knocking down the door to move into the St. Clair-Superior neighborhood any time soon, and they won't be until more desirable areas (i.e. downtown) are developed first. I don't buy such a rail line spurring development there either since it takes more than rail to make a desirable neighborhood. At this point in time I think better transit access to the east side could best be accomplished by extending the Red line instead.